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Russia seeks to sell stealth jets to Korea

"Chinese missiles are vastly superior to Russian missiles which we copied from!" - tanlixiang28776

"Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha" - The rest of world.

Korean missile vastly superior to Chinese missile even though copied from Russian missile and is inferior in all technical aspects-Korean.

Afraid to argue with hard facts my little friend?
 
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Janes is a far more reliable source than any Korean newspaper.
Let us use our common senses.

Yahkont was developed to replace Kh-31(On which YJ-12 is based on) with a far greater speed and range. So how can an Yakhont derivative that's twice as heavy as a kh-31 derivative be shorter in range?

As for missiles China has ASAT
That's the old S-300V interceptor from Soviet Union.

midcourse interception ABM
Good luck with hitting any target with DF-21D.

Still heavily copied with Korean acknowledgement as the name Yakhont K suggests.
Yakhont-K is no more Russian than is Gripen American. Gripen has an American engine and American consulting, but no one calls it an American fighter.

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

just wanted to know abt ur country n wanted to become friend of u..
Well, the enemy of your enemy is your friend, no?
 
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Let us use our common senses.

Yahkont was developed to replace Kh-31(On which YJ-12 is based on) with a far greater speed and range. So how can an Yakhont derivative that's twice as heavy as a kh-31 derivative be shorter in range?

With smaller warhead size and the YJ 12 is significantly larger.

That's the old S-300V interceptor from Soviet Union.

The ASAT test was done at a altitude of 865 KM altitude. The s 300 has a max altitude of 40 Km. Only Koreans would be able to pull that off with their fantasy powers.

Good luck with hitting any target with DF-21D.

The SC 19 ABM hit its target fine at a altitude of 250 Km and 8 KM/s with a kinetic kill warhead.

Yakhont-K is no more Russian than is Gripen American. Gripen has an American engine and American consulting, but no one calls it an American fighter.

The YJ 12 is all Chinese made and in Korean minds its more of a copy then a Korean missile that has to use Russian engines.
 
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Some update on the tender.

Preliminary Pricing information has been leaked. Àӱ⸻ ¼­µÎ¸£´Â Â÷¼¼´ëÀüÅõ±â µµÀÔ   ¿ù°£Á¶¼± - ¿µÇâ·Â ÀÖ´Â »ç¶÷µé¿¡°Ô ¿µÇâ·Â ÀÖ´Â ÀâÁö

F-35 : $120 million
Typhoon : $126 million
Silent Eagle : $90 million
PAK-FA : $90 million

Then there is the separate tech transfer package considerations, in which Russians are expected to offer the best package. So looks like a done deal, right? Not quite.

The biggest problem with PAK-FA is the data link, for which the Link16 connectivity is required. Both Russia and Korea must sit down and try to figure out a way to put the Link16 in PAK-FA, most likely through a European vendor. The fall back option, the use of Korea's Link-K datalink covering the Army and the Navy, allows PAK-FA to be connected to the C&C but not to the AWACS or to the rest of ROKAF and USAF fighter fleet operating on Link16.

Based on what's discussed, PAK-FA's chance of actually winning the tender is excellent, assuming the Datalink problem can be solved.
 
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Some update on the tender.

Preliminary Pricing information has been leaked. Àӱ⸻ ¼*µÎ¸£´Â Â÷¼¼´ëÀüÅõ±â µµÀÔ** ¿ù°£Á¶¼± - ¿µÇâ·Â ÀÖ´Â »ç¶÷µé¿¡°Ô ¿µÇâ·Â ÀÖ´Â ÀâÁö

F-35 : $120 million
Typhoon : $126 million
Silent Eagle : $90 million
PAK-FA : $90 million

Then there is the separate tech transfer package considerations, in which Russians are expected to offer the best package. So looks like a done deal, right? Not quite.

The biggest problem with PAK-FA is the data link, for which the Link16 connectivity is required. Both Russia and Korea must sit down and try to figure out a way to put the Link16 in PAK-FA, most likely through a European vendor. The fall back option, the use of Korea's Link-K datalink covering the Army and the Navy, allows PAK-FA to be connected to the C&C but not to the AWACS or to the rest of ROKAF and USAF fighter fleet operating on Link16.

Based on what's discussed, PAK-FA's chance of actually winning the tender is excellent, assuming the Datalink problem can be solved.


With All due respect I want to ask, is these price tag are actual??? Can I use it for my further references.

 
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With All due respect I want to ask, is these price tag are actual??? Can I use it for my further references.


The F-15 Silent Eagle costs over $100 million each! PAK-FA $90 million? lolz...

Here is the translation of Korean's source:
Lee (Lee明博) government's next-generation fighter (FX) is mentioned as a candidate for adoption in the business of the Lockheed Martin F-35 and Boeing's F-15SE, the European Aerospace & Defense Aerospace Industry (EADS) for the Eurofighter Typhoon, Russia Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA market leader, and four aircraft for South Korea is competing fiercely behind the scenes. Among these, the last visited Aug. 9, Washington, USA cheonyoungwoo (千英宇), senior presidential diplomacy is drawing attention to the move. Cheong one official, "Thomas donilreon cheonyoungwoo chief at the invitation of the White House national security adviser, bangmi officials met during the North American academic enrichment program (UEP) and food aid to North Korea, South Korea-US missile treaty, including amendments discussed security issues were discussed, including the focus on those issues, "he said," but it uijeil revealed as, in fact, the FX to have been core to the discussion about business knows, "he said. He added: "When one thousand senior bangmi daedonghan officials as part of Strategy and Finance yesansil knows," he said, "one thousand gwigukhae Senior FX gijaebu called budget implementation of the project budget increase I know that instructed, "he said. "I finally added eokwongaryang FX 9000 total project cost a total of 9.2 trillion won adjustment," said, "FX business and move hurry yesansil geupmulsaleul two riding feeling," he said. Pentagon officials of "foreign and security chief of the United States bangmungil gijaebu to accompany the budget, if personnel, current as of the relevant issues relating to introduction of weapons mirueobol course, when it takes to produce a budget, "said" FX project cost close to 900 billion won and the fact that you are trying to increase the production F-35 certain companies (Lockheed Martin) to support the drill, "he said.

"The next year, FX business promotion budget than the amount originally requested by the Department of Defense to assign up eokwonman 300 seems to be reduced," he said, "the entire project budget is 900 billion won was added in F-35's current price ($ 120 million) and gyesanghan price and only fits 60 cars, "he said. Competing models of the exact price is unknown, however, Boeing's F-15SE a 100 billion won, EADS's Eurofighter Typhoon 1380 billion, Russia's Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA a 100 billion won ancestors was known: "Some media, etc. through the 'tin fighter as "F-35 that reportedly introduced this July to mid-and long-term budget cuts as 8 trillion won in nine jowondae restitution that was organized by the extra nonsense," said "The introduction of desperately needed weapons because Budget cuts and other damage to the system that can be retrieved, "he said. To verify this fact, reporter for the senior and gijaebu cheonyoungwoo gimdongyeon budget attempted to mount with a telephone connection, "hoeuijung" dapbyeonman heard of. Meanwhile, the business representative of the subject DAPA "FX business is the fact that the entire budget is growing significantly," said, "but you can not give specific numbers out to," he said. gimgwanjin government last July 20 (金宽鎭), organized by Secretary of Defense, Defense Business Promotion Commission (bangchuwi) Open the FX business with stealth capabilities.
 
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With All due respect I want to ask, is these price tag are actual???
Yes. They are preliminary pricing being quoted for the budgetary process. They are fly-away costs, not including weapons, spares, and support, and assumes direct importation, no license-production or local final assembly. Accordingly, the prices will be different from Indian FGFA.

Price will of course change when the actual bids are submitted in April 2012, but it gives you a rough idea on where the competitors stand. F-35's chances are not as good as what many outsiders think, because the Korean Airforce chief opposes F-35 and is personally lobbying against it, but the president and his diplomacy team is backing F-35 as a gift to the US.

Fortunately, Korea has a fairly transparent weapons selection process whose scores are made public and the president cannot flip the outcome(He can say go/no-go, but not actually change the selected model).

Can I use it for my further references.
Sure, when the source is reputable.

The F-15 Silent Eagle costs over $100 million each! PAK-FA $90 million? lolz...
Again, these are the prices being quoted at the presidential level.
 
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mki costed >$100 million, so PAKFA might be $120 million

Unlike Su-30MKI and FGFA, this is an open contest, where three of four bidders excluding Eurofighter GmbH stand to lose big or negatively impacted if they lose this deal. This is why the competition is fierce and this drives down prices in the process. Furthermore, this is a straight import deal, no localized production. This is why you cannot compare PAK-FA's Korean prices with Indian prices.

PAK-FA, Silent Eagle, and F-35 depend their export future on this deal.
 
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Unlike Su-30MKI and FGFA, this is an open contest, where three of four bidders excluding Eurofighter GmbH stand to lose big or negatively impacted if they lose this deal. This is why the competition is fierce and this drives down prices in the process. Furthermore, this is a straight import deal, no localized production. This is why you cannot compare PAK-FA's Korean prices with Indian prices.

PAK-FA, Silent Eagle, and F-35 depend their export future on this deal.
What ever be the deal might be, Korea need to pay the extra cost if demanded by the producer after half of the induction is completed . It is not like you give me $ 8 billion and i give you 80 planes .
 
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What ever be the deal might be, Korea need to pay the extra cost if demanded by the producer after half of the induction is completed . It is not like you give me $ 8 billion and i give you 80 planes .
That's not the Korean experience with Russian arms procurement. It's not like this is the first time Korea is buying Russian arms. Yes, there were problems with spare parts procurement(So that Korean government officials had to bypass slow-responding official state export agency and go direct to Russian manufacturers), but a price rise in the middle of contract execution is unheard of.

I am aware of India's problems, but I think those stems from the corruption and bribery that leaves Indian officials vulnerable to that sort of price gouging situation.
 
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Unlike Su-30MKI and FGFA, this is an open contest, where three of four bidders excluding Eurofighter GmbH stand to lose big or negatively impacted if they lose this deal. This is why the competition is fierce and this drives down prices in the process. Furthermore, this is a straight import deal, no localized production. This is why you cannot compare PAK-FA's Korean prices with Indian prices.

PAK-FA, Silent Eagle, and F-35 depend their export future on this deal.

Very interesting...I am surprised that they are offering such unbelievable prices :woot:

Usually for South Asian countries like India and Pakistan, we have to pay a lot more for that kind of stuff.

As far as Russian birds go, yes there is the logistical issue. But then you are right about the corruption part (very prevalent in South Asia).
 
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That's not the Korean experience with Russian arms procurement. It's not like this is the first time Korea is buying Russian arms. Yes, there were problems with spare parts procurement(So that Korean government officials had to bypass slow-responding official state export agency and go direct to Russian manufacturers), but a price rise in the middle of contract execution is unheard of.

I am aware of India's problems, but I think those stems from the corruption and bribery that leaves Indian officials vulnerable to that sort of price gouging situation.


Excuse for the off topic talk. I wanted to ask you what is the general South Korean opinion of China and Chinese in general and what do they feel about China's support to North Korea?

I only ask because most of the South Koreans I meet have a favorable view of China as compared to Japan. Things spoken on forum however portray another story.
 
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I wanted to ask you what is the general South Korean opinion of China and Chinese in general
Very negative. You won't find a stronger anti-China country than here. But this anti-China feeling extends to the mainland only. People simply don't have any kind of emotion for other Sinitic countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore.

and what do they feel about China's support to North Korea?
Very negative again. If it wasn't for China, NK regime would have collapsed 3 years ago and this world would be free of the worst dictator in our modern time. But the most evil regime in the world survives because of Chinese backing.

I only ask because most of the South Koreans I meet have a favorable view of China as compared to Japan.
That pretty much changed in the past 5 years. The difference between China and Japan is that Japan is sort of a tough but worthy opponent, while Chinese are seen as amateurs who don't even play by the rules.
 
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Very negative. You won't find a stronger anti-China country than here. But this anti-China feeling extends to the mainland only. People simply don't have any kind of emotion for other Sinitic countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore.

Wow that's stronger then I expected, I'll take your word for it cause I have not been down to Korea myself.


Very negative again. If it wasn't for China, NK regime would have collapsed 3 years ago and this world would be free of the worst dictator in our modern time. But the most evil regime in the world survives because of Chinese backing.

North Korea is a little tricky to say, I can see why China is supporting NK because a collapse of the regime would flood their borders with refugees. Though things can't stay this way forever, hypothetically speaking if the regime collapse and the NK refugees came into SK what will the general reaction be in your opinion.


That pretty much changed in the past 5 years. The difference between China and Japan is that Japan is sort of a tough but worthy opponent, while Chinese are seen as amateurs who don't even play by the rules.

Thanks for your insight.
 
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