Russia proposes to Iran to organize licensed production of Russian T-90S tanks

[Mentee]

How is Pak a threat to you? Lol

some mullah saw in his wild imaginations that we are going to be their enemies , chivil ny chaval mari hain

Pakistan have strong pro Saudi bloke in it , and just don't rely on Iraqis too much ...



yeah , Iraq , Pakistan and Turkey , but Turkey can't operate its armor force against us efficiently in mountains ...

and alliens

 

[-SINAN-]

yeah , Iraq , Pakistan and Turkey , but Turkey can't operate its armor force against us efficiently in mountains ..

Iraq: Is your ally there is no way they are going to be a threat for you in the future.
Pakistan: Is a friendly country and they have India to deal with. And as far as i know you have no real disputes against Pakistan.
Turkey: We might have differences in foreign policy but we have no real disputes against each other. Our borders is the oldest border in the whole ME.

If i were to say, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and to a point US and If i were in your shoes, my priority would be Air force -> Naval Forces -> Land forces. You are not going to fight a land war against any of these countries. Keep your defense budget at %4 of the GDP at max and modernize your inventory.

 

[Chevil]

Iraq: Is your ally there is no way they are going to be a threat for you in the future.
Pakistan: Is a friendly country and they have India to deal with. And as far as i know you have no real disputes against Pakistan.
Turkey: We might have differences in foreign policy but we have no real disputes against each other. Our borders is the oldest border in the whole ME.

If i were to say, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and to a point US and If i were in your shoes, my priority would be Air force -> Naval Forces -> Land forces. You are not going to fight a land war against any of these countries. Keep your defense budget at %4 of the GDP at max and modernize your inventory.

your point may be valid ( at least about Pakistan or Iraq ) but , I like to my country have counter measure to our neighbors military power rather than rely on the words and their good intentions ( especially Turkey )

KSA , Israel and USA are not our neighbors .... the question was asking about our neighbor , so I answered it ....
only these three neighbors can pose a threat to us ...

anyway you missed my original point...

but the main problem is Our Defensive Doctrine !! it is based on a scenario that we are are going to face USA in battle ; and in this scenario , Tanks and other Armored vehicle are just helpless targets for USA Air superiority .... that why our Generals and Officials don't like investing money on Tanks ...

the price of a modern tank is 5 million dollar but a light IFV is about 200 k dollars , so with money of 1 tank , we can buy 25 IFV ; and there was talk about buying 500-750 tanks .
my point is that instead of buying or producing 500-750 tanks , we can buy or produce 12500- 18700 IFVs and these light armor vehicle are suitable for our Defensive Strategy ....

 

[Hack-Hook]

Well even at the time of shah we didn't have 15000 tanks we even didn't had 5000 of them . and I don't see any imminent or near future from Pakistan or turkey. When it come to our needs well I think we need more UCAV and attack helicopters against groups of smugglers and terrorist that my try to enter our country from those borders.

 

[Hack-Hook]

the price of a modern tank is 5 million dollar but a light IFV is about 200 k dollars , so with money of 1 tank , we can buy 25 IFV ; and there was talk about buying 500-750 tanks .
my point is that instead of buying or producing 500-750 tanks , we can buy or produce 12500- 18700 IFVs and these light armor vehicle are suitable for our Defensive Strategy ....

you can throw those 12000 ifv against 100 invading tanks and they are toast .

 

[MadDog]

Pakistan have strong pro Saudi bloke in it , and just don't rely on Iraqis too much ...



yeah , Iraq , Pakistan and Turkey , but Turkey can't operate its armor force against us efficiently in mountains ...

Pakistan tipped off Iran about presence of Abdul Malek Rigi in a flight flying from gulf after which he was arrested by Iran. Pakistan arrested his brother & handed over to Iran. Pakistan has successfully decimated the TTP/LEJ sunni extremists , a significant threat to eastern border regions of Iran. Pakistan embassy in Washington has hosted Interests section for Islamic Republic of Iran for decades as there was no diplomatic relations between US & Iran. After all of this you believe Pakistan is a threat ?

 

[Chevil]

you can throw those 12000 ifv against 100 invading tanks and they are toast .

add some Anti Tank Missile on them , and Tank are toast ....

Well even at the time of shah we didn't have 15000 tanks we even didn't had 5000 of them . and I don't see any imminent or near future from Pakistan or turkey. When it come to our needs well I think we need more UCAV and attack helicopters against groups of smugglers and terrorist that my try to enter our country from those borders.

I didn't talk about Tank , I talked about light Armour Vehicle like ATV , Gaz-Tiger , Cobra , ( i mistakenly used IFV for them ) ...
we have 500,000 troops , even for transporting them we need more than 20,000 light Armour Vehicle ....

 

[Hack-Hook]

add some Anti Tank Missile on them , and Tank are toast ....



I didn't talk about Tank , I talked about light Armour Vehicle like ATV , Gaz-Tiger , Cobra , ( i mistakenly used IFV for them ) ...
we have 500,000 troops , even for transporting them we need more than 20,000 light Armour Vehicle ....

which anti tank missile , most of them have 2-3km of range , you see a modern tank can target them from a longer range.for comparison Rheinmetall 120 mm gun is a gun from 1974 that have a range of 4.5-8km depended on what sort of ammo you use .
and why buy those vehicle while we already produce them?

 

[Chevil]

which anti tank missile , most of them have 2-3km of range , you see a modern tank can target them from a longer range.for comparison Rheinmetall 120 mm gun is a gun from 1974 that have a range of 4.5-8km depended on what sort of ammo you use .
and why buy those vehicle while we already produce them?

Thats depend on your strategy and the landscape ....

 

[VEVAK]

Tanks are useless! Iran would have to be out of its mind to buy them...
Saddam had 5x the tank force and the tanks they had were superior to Iranian tanks and how did that end up?
Even when US invaded Iraq the Americans killed more Iraqi tanks with Anti-Tank weapons than with the actual Abrams Tank

Iran would be better off building a tracked robot armed with guided anti tank missiles something like this:

Iran could probably build 10 of these or something close to it for the price of one T90... I would just build them bigger with a longer range

 

[Arminkh]

Tanks are useless! Iran would have to be out of its mind to buy them...
Saddam had 5x the tank force and the tanks they had were superior to Iranian tanks and how did that end up?
Even when US invaded Iraq the Americans killed more Iraqi tanks with Anti-Tank weapons than with the actual Abrams Tank

Iran would be better off building a tracked robot armed with guided anti tank missiles something like this:

Iran could probably build 10 of these or something close to it for the price of one T90... I would just build them bigger with a longer range

It's already in the works. And tanks are not as easy to destroy as has been shown in this simulation.

But tanks will remain the main ground battle weapon for times to come. They are a bit behind in defense against air and ground lunched missiles but it is improving fast.

The point defense concept is being employed on thanks. See this. This is Leopard 2 A7. Its secondary gun on top of the turret can automatically lock and fire at targets. It also can be used like a point defense system on naval units to intercept incoming missiles.

 

[VEVAK]

They are a lot easier to destroy than you think!

Although more modern tanks have defensive counter measures they can deploy but at the end of the day those countermeasures are only good sometimes and usually against one missile or rocket not multiple projectiles

conclusion is at this day and age tanks are only good for urban warfare against insurgents not that they are completely obsolete but their mission by the most part has and will continue to changed to a more small command and control center used for communication, deployment of small UAV & UGV's, electronic warfare, etc
The day's of deploying large tank forces to win wars ended long time ago

Iraq had 5 times the Tank force of Iran and although they were successful in their initial invasion but at the end of the day they proved to be useless because Iran was able to push an armored division 5x it's size off most of it's territory within a year using fighter, helicopters and shoulder launched anti tank missiles and rockets.

If it was me I wouldn't buy more than 100 of these T-90's and I wouldn't pay a penny over $2 Million for them they can take it or leave it... Russia is building the Armada tanks and now they wanna fund their Armada fleet by selling their junk to Iran.

Best thing for Iran to do is to build all its armored division surrounding one chassis and one engine that can be adaptable to be used in APC, IFV, Light Tanks, Large UGV, MBT, etc and this will in the long run cut down costs of production and maintenance. This is exactly what the Russians plan to do with the Armada

Having swarms of armed unmanned ground and aerial vehicles is the future and if your not already working on mass producing these machines in large number than you are already behind