Russia Can't Afford Its New T-14 Armata Tanks, Turns To Updated Older Designs Instead

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

So a military parade signifies mass production?

Serial production units. It's not like the US ground forces has many tanks either. Only about 2,000.

 

[UKBengali]

Can you give us any evidence of mass production associated with the T-14? And please do the same for the Su-57 ...


2300 Armatas is impossible ... plain and simple. Russia simply does not have anywhere near the funds to procure such a massive number of tanks. A couple hundred would already be quite an achievement. They would be much smarter to allocate more funds towards their air force, esp since the fate of the Su-57 project is all but unclear ...

Dude, 2300 Armatas would cost just over 10 billion US dollars.
Russia defence budget is over 60 billion US dollars a year.
Russia will find just under 2 billion dollars a year to produce it between now and 2025.
SU-57 is a failed design and they will not waste money producing it.

 

[ptldM3]

Dude, 2300 Armatas would cost just over 10 billion US dollars.
Russia defence budget is over 60 billion US dollars a year.
Russia will find just under 2 billion dollars a year to produce it between now and 2025.
SU-57 is a failed design and they will not waste money producing it.

Stop spreading nonsense. You know nothing about the Russian defense industry so just stay quiet. These kind of articles appear every year and are wrong every year. There was reports that Russia would not even build new generation tank and aircraft and then the T-14 and SU-57 came.

The defense budget is also not part of the parcurment budget in which Russia has spent hundreds of billions on new weapons purchases. At least get that simple part right.



The SU-57 is also far superior to anything in the Russian Air Force and has far greater ranger, longer standoff weapons, and better maneuverability then the F-35 and F-22. Russia invested billions into the park-fa and would not canceled the project or continue pumping billions into the program to only produce 12, which some idiots keep claiming. Russia will eventually have to replace Flankers, the SU-57 is the replacement and far superior. No one scoffs at the SU-30 but for some reason morons scoff at the SU-57.

 

[LeGenD]

There is no such thing as the best MBT in the world. T-14 Armata isn't most cutting-edge either. Silly fanboyist notions.

Check my response in another thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/show...brams-who-wins-who-dies.570941/#post-10685389''

As for mass production? NO. Only 100 units will be produced by 2020.

FYI: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-tanks-turns-to-updated-older-designs-instead

Russia is looking forward to modernize its older generation MBTs instead.

 

[UKBengali]

Stop spreading nonsense. You know nothing about the Russian defense industry so just stay quiet. These kind of articles appear every year and are wrong every year. There was reports that Russia would not even build new generation tank and aircraft and then the T-14 and SU-57 came.

The defense budget is also not part of the parcurment budget in which Russia has spent hundreds of billions on new weapons purchases. At least get that simple part right.



The SU-57 is also far superior to anything in the Russian Air Force and has far greater ranger, longer standoff weapons, and better maneuverability then the F-35 and F-22. Russia invested billions into the park-fa and would not canceled the project or continue pumping billions into the program to only produce 12, which some idiots keep claiming. Russia will eventually have to replace Flankers, the SU-57 is the replacement and far superior. No one scoffs at the SU-30 but for some reason morons scoff at the SU-57.

Just because I am not informed of how Russia budgets for weapons, does not disqualify me to comment on the Russian military.

Now ask yourself why so many people do not rate the SU-57 like they do other Russian weapons?
Personally I am a big fan of products like SU-27 series fighters, SAMs, SSNs and tanks like the Armata.
There is no conspiracy to put the Russian weapon industry down here. If something is good, then people will say it.

I remember in a conversation you were engaged in many years ago your claim that the then PAK-FA was an "aerodynamic testbed" and the production plane would be far stealthier. Can you advise what the differences are now?

Russia will not mass produce the SU-57 but use it as experience to develop a true 5th generation fighter which will be mass/produced.

 

[ptldM3]

Just because I am not informed of how Russia budgets for weapons, does not disqualify me to comment on the Russian military.

Then stop talking about subjects you know nothing about. I’m not well informed in neurology so I don’t pretend to know about the subject or argue with people that do.

Now ask yourself why so many people do not rate the SU-57 like they do other Russian weapons?
Personally I am a big fan of products like SU-27 series fighters, SAMs, SSNs and tanks like the Armata.

Is this a popularity contest? People that know nothing about the SU-57 and then “rating” the SU-57 means what? This is a childish logic. Random people on the internet don’t know anything about the aircraft—zero. You clearly don’t follow the PA-FA program or know anything about aviation so stop making baseless claims.


I take the word of Russia’s chief test pilot (and people at Sukhoi) over any keyboard warrior and their flawed internet speculation. The test pilot of the PAK-FA, Sergey Bogdan, is one of the few people that have flown the SU-57 as well as many of their aircraft and one of the few people that have classified information on the aircraft. Sergey Bogdan has debunked most of the conspiracies floating around the SU-57. So do you believe some random journalists that clearly don’t know anything about the SU-57 or Sergey Bogdan with thousands of flight hours under his belt?


You can rate the pak-fa whatever you like, you can claim it as a failure but at the end of the day it’s basic performance, atleast on paper and according to the test pilot exceeds its rivals. Again this is according to the test pilot and performance in Syria but you can choose to believe some random journalists at Business Insider, I’m sure they know more about the aircraft then Sukhoi or Bogdan.

I remember in a conversation you were engaged in many years ago your claim that the then PAK-FA was an "aerodynamic testbed" and the production plane would be far stealthier. Can you advise what the differences are now?

Yes and that was correct. The first prototypes were for aerodynamic testing, later prototypes incorporated avionics and then weapons. The aircraft also did get “stealthier” and has had many changes such as new engine and new serrated nozzles, metal cowlings are covered, weapons bays and landing bay door are redesigned, canopy redesigned, redesigned vents, redesigned stabilizer base, ect. Anything else you want to add?

Russia will not mass produce the SU-57 but use it as experience to develop a true 5th generation fighter which will be mass/produced.

Just stop.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

There is no such thing as the best MBT in the world. T-14 Armata isn't most cutting-edge either. Silly fanboyist notions.

Check my response in another thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/show...brams-who-wins-who-dies.570941/#post-10685389''

As for mass production? NO. Only 100 units will be produced by 2020.

FYI: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-tanks-turns-to-updated-older-designs-instead

Russia is looking forward to modernize its older generation MBTs instead.

100 is plenty enough. The US has about 2000 Abrams. Russia don't even have half of America's population.

 

[UKBengali]

Then stop talking about subjects you know nothing about. I’m not well informed in neurology so I don’t pretend to know about the subject or argue with people that do.

And just because Sukhoi says the Su-57 is a good aircraft then it must be?

Just because the pilot thinks the SU-57 is a good aircraft, then it must be able to compete against US and Chinese 5th generation fighters?

Keep believing what you want but remember this is a open forum and everyone has the right to post their own opinions, like you have the right to post your own opinions.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

And just because Sukhoi says the Su-57 is a good aircraft then it must be?

A Russian was the first man in space. You think Russians are jokes?

From the first space capsule Vostok to the first unmanned space plane Buran to today, Russian aerospace had always been the best.

 

[ptldM3]

And just because Sukhoi says the Su-57 is a good aircraft then it must be?

Just because Business Insider and a few blogs says it’s a bad aircraft then it must be true?

Just because the pilot thinks the SU-57 is a good aircraft, then it must be able to compete against US and Chinese 5th generation fighters?

Just because you or a few airheads on line say the SU-57 is a bad aircraft must mean it can’t compete with those aircraft? I missed the part where the F-22 or J-20 was able to carry cruise missiles, I missed the part where the F-35s glide bombs were able to reach 290kms.

And that pilot is a colonel named Sergey Bogdan a former squadron commander with 35 years experience in flying, he has flown countless different aircraft, and helped Sukhoi develop the SU-35 as well as SU-57 by giving feedback and recommendations, he has thousands of flight hours and gets classified briefings on the SU-57 and SU-35 and he knows more about foreign aircraft then anyone on this forum, he likely had classified briefings about US aircraft
In which Russia obviously spies and gathers information about foreign aircraft.

But yes he has no credibility. Some random journalists from Business Insider has better knowledge then Bogdan

Keep believing what you want but remember this is a open forum and everyone has the right to post their own opinions, like you have the right to post your own opinions.

No one cares about your opinion. You still don’t get it. You have made up your mind that the SU-57 is garbage, it doesn’t matter if it has better strike capabilities then it’s rivals, it doesn’t matter if the test pilot described it as a leap in aircraft design, it doesn’t matter if it’s combat tested. It doesn’t matter that it has greater standoff weapons then any competitors or better engines then the J-20. None of that matters, if some random blogs or journalists says the SU-57
is bad you will go with that opinion.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

No one cares about your opinion. You still don’t get it. You have made up your mind that the SU-57 is garbage, it doesn’t matter if it has better strike capabilities then it’s rivals, it doesn’t matter if the test pilot described it as a leap in aircraft design, it doesn’t matter if it’s combat tested. It doesn’t matter that it has greater standoff weapons then any competitors or better engines then the J-20. None of that matters, if some random blogs or journalists says the SU-57
is bad you will go with that opinion.

Ignore racists. They are racist to white people like Russians. They hate Russia because it's a white country. No point arguing with them. As a Chinese Canadian immigrant, I give thumbs up to Su-57. Terrific plane.

 

[UKBengali]

Just because Business Insider and a few blogs says it’s a bad aircraft then it must be true?







Just because you or a few airheads on line say the SU-57 is a bad aircraft must mean it can’t compete with those aircraft? I missed the part where the F-22 or J-20 was able to carry cruise missiles, I missed the part where the F-35s glide bombs were able to reach 290kms.

And that pilot is a colonel named Sergey Bogdan a former squadron commander with 35 years experience in flying, he has flown countless different aircraft, and helped Sukhoi develop the SU-35 as well as SU-57 by giving feedback and recommendations, he has thousands of flight hours and gets classified briefings on the SU-57 and SU-35 and he knows more about foreign aircraft then anyone on this forum, he likely had classified briefings about US aircraft
In which Russia obviously spies and gathers information about foreign aircraft.

But yes he has no credibility. Some random journalists from Business Insider has better knowledge then Bogdan






No one cares about your opinion. You still don’t get it. You have made up your mind that the SU-57 is garbage, it doesn’t matter if it has better strike capabilities then it’s rivals, it doesn’t matter if the test pilot described it as a leap in aircraft design, it doesn’t matter if it’s combat tested. It doesn’t matter that it has greater standoff weapons then any competitors or better engines then the J-20. None of that matters, if some random blogs or journalists says the SU-57
is bad you will go with that opinion.

Dude, Indian air-force has severe issues with SU-57 like it's stealth capabilities and avionics.
Those are the areas that I see it not matching up to where the US and even China are with their stealth fighters.

Yes, SU-57 has better engines than J-20 but this will change when the WS-15 gets put in.

"leap in aircraft design" from Su-27 series maybe but this does not matter as he does not know how good the F-22/J-20 and F-35 are in comparison.

The real question is can Russia compete with the US/EU and China going forward in cutting-edge military technology? It probably cannot as it lacks both human and financial resources compared to the others. Soviet Union was able to get around it's lack of civilian industry by investing 12-14% of GDP on defence and had twice as many people but what will Russia do?

No amount of ranting and claiming non-Russians do not have a clue will change things.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

and had twice as many people but what will Russia do

How many non Russian engineers were there in USSR? All the major aerospace agencies were in Russia with the exception of Antonov which was relocated to Ukraine.

 

[UKBengali]

How many non Russian engineers were there in USSR? All the major aerospace agencies were in Russia with the exception of Antonov which was relocated to Ukraine.

Plenty as in Ukrainian and also there were some from other states. Fact remains the pool from where it can pull it's engineers from has dramatically shrunk. As an example Sukhoi was born in Belarus and only because of the Soviet Union were his talents utilised.

Biggest problem is that Russia has 1/4 of the hard cash to spend on defence as the former Soviet Union.

 

[DavidSling]

Another fan boys thread