Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[TaimiKhan]

Dude you too? I thought you were mature enough to comment upon state craft unemotionally- to look at the events and their implications alone...sad that you should participate in emotional outbursts.

I am also a human being as well as a Pakistani, so for me also a time comes when utter frustration is to be let out after seeing continuous trolling, useless rant and idiotic as well as stupid comments coming from certain members, rather many of the members going over the same lines.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Here is how I look at it----it is not selling the soul or showing control---or showing how strong you are at manipulating the market.

It show how incompetent, shallow and tunnel visioned the indian thinking is.

And I say that because---the JF 17 doesnot change the power balance in favour of pakistan---but it still favours india----so it is completely foolish on part of india if it tried to influence the sale of the engines---what if paf decides okay---enough is enough---we will find a source to go with something more potent---india cannot block all our resources---.

India is prolonging the decision on its MRCA because it will then open up the rest to our bargain---whomsoever is left out---will deal with us and that is the bottomline---.

As for as the RD 93---if paf has 3 engines for two aircraft at this stage---they are well set---150 engines for 100 aircraft is fine---would rather have a ratio of 2:1 engines to planes---.

Now this puts us somewhere in the year 2013-2014---so where is the problem that people are talking about---making mountains out of mole hills.

Now a restriction on engines for the JF 17 would create more interest from those who might be considering it one way or the other---it is like the forbidden fruit.

So----then---thank you india one more time---your silly decision have a tendency of popping up right in your face---thankyou again. Thanks for advertising for us.

 

[Super Falcon]

well no one can stop JF 17 for rueling the skies of asia

 

[deckingraj]

Hi,

Here is how I look at it----it is not selling the soul or showing control---or showing how strong you are at manipulating the market.

It show how incompetent, shallow and tunnel visioned the indian thinking is.

Sad that you feel like this but then you are an informed person...you will have reasons to believe...However would like to question it....

And I say that because---the JF 17 doesnot change the power balance in favour of pakistan---but it still favours india----so it is completely foolish on part of india if it tried to influence the sale of the engines---what if paf decides okay---enough is enough---we will find a source to go with something more potent---india cannot block all our resources---.

With all due respect Sir, are you saying that Pak can say Enough is Enough and thay can find a source to go for something more potent and yet they are not going??? In fact they are sticking to a less potent fighter called JF-17 and in turn doing India a favor??? Something is wrong...May be i did not understood your assertion....Otherwise i am sure you very well know how much work has PAF put in JF-17 and its too late to say "Enough is Enough" and abandon it at this stage....

India is prolonging the decision on its MRCA because it will then open up the rest to our bargain---whomsoever is left out---will deal with us and that is the bottomline---.

Again something wrong there....Just look at other defence deals that India take....they are bound to be delayed...There is a reason we are called worst beaurocracy..isn't it??? MRCA is offen termed as mother of all defence deals...it is worth $10 billion...on top of that we have adopted a new formulae to check kickbacks and is being implemented for the first time in this super complex deal....

So not sure if your assertions is exactly right...In other words we will not delay our modernization just to delay yours....yes in the mean time if we can hurt yours then we will not leave the opportunity....b/w please remember MRCA is to give IAF a punch viz-a-viz China....We already have good enough fire-power for PAF...So IAF won't hurt her diminishing squadron counts just to slow down PAF....Trust me we are more clever then that....

As for as the RD 93---if paf has 3 engines for two aircraft at this stage---they are well set---150 engines for 100 aircraft is fine---would rather have a ratio of 2:1 engines to planes---.

Exactly, why would Indian's miss this that any such ban would not hamper GOP but only exports?? B/W Pak and China are yet to get any orders for JF-17...isn't it??? We tried to block the deal for Pakistan and succeeded to some extent...Later Putin himself allowed sale of RD-93 to Pak...Isn't it??? I know we are adversaries but nothing wrong in calling spade a spade...This may be Russia's own decision....the same way they allowed sales of RD-93 to Pak for sake of $$$ much to India's dis-satisfaction the same way they blocked sale of RD-93 for exports to save any competition in getting $$$....Don't you think so??? Also what other single engine/twin engine fighters that you see can compete with Mig-29 in terms of price and capabilities??? JF-17 brings in a much cheaper option and somewhat similar capabilities which are good enough for certain countries who might not need extended radar coverage and what not or might be cash starved.....Mind it i am not saying JF-17 at $15 million is better then Mig-29...however when i have nothing available then i have no choice but Mig...In short there is a possibility however dim it is that JF-17 can offset Mig-29 market....

Now this puts us somewhere in the year 2013-2014---so where is the problem that people are talking about---making mountains out of mole hills.

and yet you think Indian planners missed this detail and yet went ahead in blocking it??? Indian planners are not fan boys sir...

Now a restriction on engines for the JF 17 would create more interest from those who might be considering it one way or the other---it is like the forbidden fruit.

It has the other way also sir....Potential buyers can run away thinking about the uncertainty this fighter has...unless and until this ban is revoked or China come up with WS-13 and show the world fighter is still as potential(or may be more) then with RD-93 you will not see any potential sales....In short there can be no JF-17 sales for 3-4 years to say the least.....

So----then---thank you india one more time---your silly decision have a tendency of popping up right in your face---thankyou again. Thanks for advertising for us.

You are always welcome sir...However in my humble opinion you might have missed some details....

 

[Guynextdoor]

Hi,

Here is how I look at it----it is not selling the soul or showing control---or showing how strong you are at manipulating the market.

It show how incompetent, shallow and tunnel visioned the indian thinking is.

And I say that because---the JF 17 doesnot change the power balance in favour of pakistan---but it still favours india----so it is completely foolish on part of india if it tried to influence the sale of the engines---what if paf decides okay---enough is enough---we will find a source to go with something more potent---india cannot block all our resources---.

India is prolonging the decision on its MRCA because it will then open up the rest to our bargain---whomsoever is left out---will deal with us and that is the bottomline---.

As for as the RD 93---if paf has 3 engines for two aircraft at this stage---they are well set---150 engines for 100 aircraft is fine---would rather have a ratio of 2:1 engines to planes---.

Now this puts us somewhere in the year 2013-2014---so where is the problem that people are talking about---making mountains out of mole hills.

Now a restriction on engines for the JF 17 would create more interest from those who might be considering it one way or the other---it is like the forbidden fruit.

So----then---thank you india one more time---your silly decision have a tendency of popping up right in your face---thankyou again. Thanks for advertising for us.

It's a question of 'estimation'. Anything other than JF 17 in a conventional sense will mean a complete re-evaluation and negotiation process...that typically lasts a few years (2 if you are very efficient)+ manufacturing and induction=say 3/4 Yr delay.
More potent- I'll take my guess that it won't be fifth gen. If it were, then the delays would be even more meaning a longer horizon for you to compensate for the 'potency gap'.
Look...JF 17s Weren't the most potent weapons anyway...if we do manage to sneak in delays what it will indicate is a flaw in your strategic planning. And that seems to be going awry quite a bit. First french avionics, now you don't know if there will be implications after the first 100 engnes etc. These are contingencies you should have thought of well ahead of time.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Hi,

Here is how I look at it----it is not selling the soul or showing control---or showing how strong you are at manipulating the market.

It show how incompetent, shallow and tunnel visioned the indian thinking is.

And I say that because---the JF 17 doesnot change the power balance in favour of pakistan---but it still favours india----so it is completely foolish on part of india if it tried to influence the sale of the engines---what if paf decides okay---enough is enough---we will find a source to go with something more potent---india cannot block all our resources---.

India is prolonging the decision on its MRCA because it will then open up the rest to our bargain---whomsoever is left out---will deal with us and that is the bottomline---.

As for as the RD 93---if paf has 3 engines for two aircraft at this stage---they are well set---150 engines for 100 aircraft is fine---would rather have a ratio of 2:1 engines to planes---.

Now this puts us somewhere in the year 2013-2014---so where is the problem that people are talking about---making mountains out of mole hills.

Now a restriction on engines for the JF 17 would create more interest from those who might be considering it one way or the other---it is like the forbidden fruit.

So----then---thank you india one more time---your silly decision have a tendency of popping up right in your face---thankyou again. Thanks for advertising for us.

I need to ask you this...Have you really taken delivery of all those engines? Because it's unusual to hold engines in inventory for a 100 jets when the construction of most of them hasn't even started. Confirming that piece of data will be very vital to your strategy.

 

[manojb]

Ok... now that solves "jf-17 out of farnsborough air show?" mystery.*

 

[Guynextdoor]

Self Delete

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I need to ask you this...Have you really taken delivery of all those engines? Because it's unusual to hold engines in inventory for a 100 jets when the construction of most of them hasn't even started. Confirming that piece of data will be very vital to your strategy.

And is there any thing in this article that suggests the delivery of the remaining 100 engines of the first batch, for Pakistani JF-17's, will be affected?

If not then why chase shadows? One can speculate on an infinite number of 'what if's'.

 

[Avatar]

well no one can stop JF 17 for rueling the skies of asia

Wake up buddy. Your own AF has better jets than JF-17.

 

[Avatar]

Ok... now that solves "jf-17 out of farnsborough air show?" mystery.*

When did it go out ? I had heard it would make an appearance and more recently that it would only be a stationary display. Why cancel the appearance when they already have 100 or so engines ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok... now that solves "jf-17 out of farnsborough air show?" mystery.*

How does it solve the mystery?

 

[Koga Ryu]

Wake up buddy. Your own AF has better jets than JF-17.

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lol majority of Indian blogger show Indian mentality that they are afraid of boggy man Jf-17.

 

[manojb]

@avatar, initial deal was paf will do 'air display' and catic will do 'static display'. Now only static display from catic. Theres a discussion in aviation section

@am, A mystery that who pulled out paf out of air show. It is neither paf or uk. It is catic. Catic marketg jf 17 with ws-1x engine. It would be " bait & switch" for potential customers ? No? And russians might have got the news. *In couple of weeks we'll know!

 

[MastanKhan]

It's a question of 'estimation'. Anything other than JF 17 in a conventional sense will mean a complete re-evaluation and negotiation process...that typically lasts a few years (2 if you are very efficient)+ manufacturing and induction=say 3/4 Yr delay.


Hi,

At this stage paf has already decided if need be---which way theywill go---they have already done the footwork of testing and analyzing the aircrafts they are interested in---.

It won't be in a number of years---but rather months---90-180 days--at the most under a year. Remember from 2001 onwards till 2005 we were testing out multiple platforms.