Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[WAQAS119]

Now a restriction on engines for the JF 17 would create more interest from those who might be considering it one way or the other---it is like the forbidden fruit.

So----then---thank you india one more time---your silly decision have a tendency of popping up right in your face---thankyou again. Thanks for advertising for us.

Yeap!! free of cost advertisement campaign! Good for JF17 future.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

The only russian part we have in Thunders is the RD-93 Engines & we were to replace it with 100KTN -ws-13 Engine anyway.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/60214-fc-1-jf-17-powered-ws-13-engine-carries-taxi-trials-2.html



Stupid decision in My mind-we will emerge out of it even better than before.

It is not about Pakistan here..it is about the sale to EAF.....The WS 13 will not be ready by 3 years but the RD 33 series 3 engine is already flying in MiG 29. And this whole issue is about the sale to Egypt and not Pakistan.

 

[TaimiKhan]

It is not about Pakistan here..it is about the sale to EAF.....The WS 13 will not be ready by 3 years but the RD 33 series 3 engine is already flying in MiG 29. And this whole issue is about the sale to Egypt and not Pakistan.

WS-13s status would be very much clear by this year end hopefully, thus a time line can be achieved.

hard to say it will take 3 more years, reason being it has cleared all its ground tests and has been fitted into an aircraft for flight tests, thus 1-2 years deadline at the most, if no unfortunate problem occurs.

So even if EAF orders the MiG-29s right now, it will take atleast 2 years or more for the first deliveries, same deadline can be achieved for the JF-17s also if the Chinese come up soon with their engine.

And EAF is still in its early stages of negotiations, thus till it decides finally, more time for the Chinese to weigh their options and come up with some news regarding the final order.

 

[Nav]

A Guy from AMF kamra told me That they Already recived 50 engines From China . And 80 % of Avionics of Jf is manufacture In Kar factory. And many senior engineers and technicians r in China for J10b project .

 

[Super Falcon]

well Mig 29 was good reliable in past but no place for mig 29 in future even your very own tejas 100 times better than Mig 29K which you got

 

[SpArK]

well Mig 29 was good reliable in past but no place for mig 29 in future even your very own tejas 100 times better than Mig 29K which you got

I agree with you completely.

 

[Super Falcon]

hen the time came to replace its large, obsolete fleet with modern, lightweight, multi-role combat aircraft, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) opted for a low-cost solution and not pricier Western designs. The result was an aircraft that could be manufactured in Pakistan in collaboration with the People's Republic of China - the lightweight fighter bomber JF-17 Thunder.

Developed by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and Chengdu Aircraft Industry, China, production is being undertaken at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra.

The PAF officially inducted its first JF-17 squadron on 18 February this year. Initially, about 10 to12 squadrons are to be produced, but the PAF will ultimately acquire up to 250 pieces. From 2011, 15-16 aircraft will be produced annually, which may eventually be increased to 25 per year.

It is hoped the JF-17 will provide a low-cost replacement for a number of developing countries currently operating ageing MiG-21/F-7 and F-5 aircraft, such as Azerbaijan, Algeria, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Myanmar, Sri Lanka and Nigeria. Some of these nations have already confirmed orders.

Specification

The JF-17 is powered by a single Russian RD-93 turbofan engine, a widely used model known to be reliable. The turbofan design gives more thrust and significantly lower specific fuel consumption than a turbojet engine. The engine has gained attention for its acceleration and quick response, with test pilots describing reactions as "virtually instantaneous". Using a single engine also significantly reduces both maintenance time and cost.

"Initially, about 10 to12 squadrons are to be produced, but the PAF will ultimately acquire up to 250 pieces."The aircraft can be armed with up to 3,629kg (8,000lb) of air-to-air and air-to-ground ordnance along with other equipment mounted externally on the aircraft. The glass cockpit, meanwhile, incorporates an electronic flight instrument system (EFIS) and a wide-angle head-up display (HUD), and it has a minimum total field of view of 25 degrees. The EFIS provides basic flight information, as well as tactical, engine, fuel, electrical, hydraulics, flight control and environment control systems information. The HUD and multi-function display (MFD) are 'smart' (meaning they can be configured by the pilot to show any of the available information), the avionics system is all-digital and fully integrated, and the solid state avionics is of a modular design.

Several radars were tested onboard prototypes of the JF-17, including Israel's Elta EL/M-2032, Russia's Phazotron Super Komar, Italy's FIAR Grifo-S7, Brittain's GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk and France's Thomson-CSF RC-400. However, a Chinese radar was selected for the first batch of craft, although Italy and France are in the running for future contracts, according to reports.

The software written for the avionics comprises more than one million lines of instructions, making use of the concept of open architecture. This software is written using the popular civilian C++ programming language, rather than a military language such as Ada, to better utilise the large number of civilian software programmers available in the market.

Building

The production of JF-17 parts and components begun as far back as 2005 and manufacture of its sub-assemblies started in 2008. The production of major assemblies is undertaken by Pakistan's large public sector units (PSUs), while parts and components are provided by private-sector suppliers.

Pakistan has a highly skilled and trained technical workforce - a prerequisite for the manufacture of an indigenous aircraft - that can be cheaper to employ when compared with other areas around the world. For example, some of the workforce deployed for the production of the JF-17 are retired personnel from the Pakistan Air Force. This manpower is available at a rate of $10 per hour whereas the international market can charge up to $45 per hour.

"The total cost of the JF-17 programme is US$500m."It is this cost-effectiveness that led the PAF to take on the task of making its own aircraft. The unit production cost of a JF-17 translates into approximately US$15 million apiece whereas a multi-role aircraft in the international market is available for US$50m a piece. Overall, the total cost of the JF-17 programme is US$500m, divided equally between China and Pakistan.

Furthermore, Pakistan will earn a good exchange rate through the sale of this aircraft and its associated spares to other countries, keep its retired aircraft workers employed, and provide the country's internal market with new opportunities to build technologies and develop new innovations


and their is no much difference between JF 17 and tejas just silght slight bit of a edge will be come with trainning of PAF pilots and Jf 17 is equal match of indian tejas

 

[Super Falcon]

well this can be another optin to replace russian RD 93

 

[WAQAS119]

YouTube - AL-31F with TVC works this way


well this can be another optin to replace russian RD 93

So you mean, their is fair chance of TVC engine been choosen for JF17?

 

[Super Falcon]

may be why not if this engine is better than RD 93 why not

 

[satishkumarcsc]

well Mig 29 was good reliable in past but no place for mig 29 in future even your very own tejas 100 times better than Mig 29K which you got

MiG 29 will have a snack out of the LCA at any given time....It will out climb, out turn and outmaneuver the LCA in any required altitude. Hell the only other aircraft comparable to the MiG 29 is the Mirage 2000 (Su 30 is in a different league so no comparison.). After upgradation to the SMT standards there will be no shortage of spares. It is like comparing the F 16 of PAF to the JF 17.

MiG 29 is still a good jet and is comparable to the F 16 and F 18 anyday. As the RD series engines have been modified effectively it is still a lethal platform and thus the Russians are thinking of Phasing out the SU 33 from their AC and putting in the MiG 29k on their Kuznetsov.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

YouTube - AL-31F with TVC works this way


well this can be another optin to replace russian RD 93

AL 31F is a Russian engine again.....and it is a heavy class engine and the dimensions are totally different.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

WS-13s status would be very much clear by this year end hopefully, thus a time line can be achieved.

hard to say it will take 3 more years, reason being it has cleared all its ground tests and has been fitted into an aircraft for flight tests, thus 1-2 years deadline at the most, if no unfortunate problem occurs.

So even if EAF orders the MiG-29s right now, it will take atleast 2 years or more for the first deliveries, same deadline can be achieved for the JF-17s also if the Chinese come up soon with their engine.

And EAF is still in its early stages of negotiations, thus till it decides finally, more time for the Chinese to weigh their options and come up with some news regarding the final order.

Will the engine be certified by that time? Will you go for a proven platform or anew one? Having an engine is good. But the Russian engine is a proven and has been in service for decades. Most of the defects have been corrected and the WS 13 is still in its infancy stages. So by not giving the RD 93 the Russians are levelling the playing field. And the Russians will also be ready to TOT the MiG 29 as the west has already known most of the existing Russian aircraft except the PAK-FA.

 

[mhacsan]

For me, i guess it will only stand if Indian MRCA goes to russia. if not i guess delivery will restart.

But for Paf, it should be met with a warning for any future business they might take on with Russia directly or indirectly.

This was bound to happen, and for Paf working with china on Ws-13 is the way to go, USA helped us get JF 17, lets see what Pas comes up with this time around. This is a bad decision to be taken by Russia coz JF 17 has a great export potential to pair with its turbo fan engine.

I agree with some of the members above that, Ws 13 is in its infancy, will take some time before it is certified for combat aircrafts.

 

[prototype]

For me, i guess it will only stand if Indian MRCA goes to russia. if not i guess delivery will restart.

But for Paf, it should be met with a warning for any future business they might take on with Russia directly or indirectly.

This was bound to happen, and for Paf working with china on Ws-13 is the way to go, USA helped us get JF 17, lets see what Pas comes up with this time around. This is a bad decision to be taken by Russia coz JF 17 has a great export potential to pair with its turbo fan engine.

I agree with some of the members above that, Ws 13 is in its infancy, will take some time before it is certified for combat aircrafts.

MRCA is not the single project in which both india and russia r involved