Russia blocks sale of engines for Sino-Pak fighter jets

[araz]

Uh...quality is determined during manufacturing. It's like the WS-10's, the design was fine, but the manufacturing had quality issues which was why the fleet of J-11B's were grounded until late last year.

As for this news, it's kind of puzzling. The WS-13 is only lacking flight testing now, it makes little sense for Russia to cancel the RD-93 orders. It MAY delay JF-17 exports by a year or two, but it'll only speed up China's pursuit of self-reliance and in turn hurt Russia's exporting efforts in the long run. Seems to be a move made of short-sightedness, a characteristic that plagues democratic nations ruled by businessmen who are out to get the max dollars and get them NOW.

Really reminds me of all the western companies relocating to China and transferring their technologies. Sure they can make a lot of money now, but eventually as China's technical skills are raised to their levels with their help, they'll stand little chance to compete further. Yet they still do it, and the western governments are helpless to stop it due to powerful lobbyist.

There is a post on this forum about themanufacturing of turbine blades which are formed from a single cystal and therefore are the most difficult to master and make properly..All quality issues relate mostly to this procesas.
As to the news, it has many permutations.It is a wish of the manufacturers of Mig29 and Sukhoi to avoid international competition as Thunder has just given them a nudge by entering farnborough and will impacttheir sales. It may be a pressure tactic from the Russian to dissuade any buyers due to engine issue. However as posted earlier it seems daft at this stage as WS13 is on the edge of certification.
It may also relate to RD93B with a higher thrust which might be in contention for future tranches of Thunder. Is this what the Russian firms want Russia to not export to PLAAF?
people have also alluded to india as a possible source and India migh be baited by Russia by saying we can cripple this project by witholding the engine from it, only you have to buy our planes.This may be likely. However to accuse india of this act seems a bit naive.
In either case the chinese and PAF have bided their time really well as future engine related sanctions will not harm the project at all or very little. In either case it poses a few problems for India, as an unfavoured(by the Russians) product will result in Russia opening doors for Pakistan and China. To what extent will this hatrm india and favour Pakistan is difficult to assess at this point in time.
Araz

 

[mjnaushad]

Indians seem pretty happy about this.

Anyways i'd rather have 100 J-10's than 200 JF-17s. Seems like a better choice.

I'd like to have 200 JF17 + 100 J 10s....Perfect choice

 

[IRA]

i think it is a matter of another few years when china comes out with her own engines. russian government obviously realizes this and is simply trying to collect as much cash as possible "in the dying-moments".

 

[IRA]

anyway, as far as my knowledge is concerned, as regards aircraft performance (and not strictly the avionics and weapons), MiG 29 is far superior to JF-17. they're two different classes'/categories' machines.

 

[lhuang]

WS 13 isn't coming any time soon. 2-3 more years minimum, this is a huge blow for the PAF, unless I've read wrongly.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

WS 13 isn't coming any time soon. 2-3 more years minimum, this is a huge blow for the PAF, unless I've read wrongly.

Yes you have read incorrectly, or not read at all - the last page or so has posts by TK and I that point out that at the most (if Russia does accept the argument being made by Russian manufacturers) the impact will be on JF-17 exports to other nations. The article does not indicate any concerns over the export of engines to Pakistan itself for use in Pakistani JF-17's.

Even if the export of engines for Pakistani use was restricted, 150 engines are already in the pipeline and would have been sufficient for another three years of production, by which time the WS-13 would be online and the JF-17 would shift to it.

 

[Areesh]

WS 13 isn't coming any time soon. 2-3 more years minimum, this is a huge blow for the PAF, unless I've read wrongly.

I don't think you have read incorrect. I think you haven't read at all.

 

[Dash]

$10 million is horrendous. How will Chinese company earn profit?

have you not heard of the subsidies???

 

[gowthamraj]

Tough competition though



Even if china makes engine ready to induct in next 5 years for jf-17. How many order it lose.

 

[Nahraf]

Competition is always good for the customers since the suppliers have to reduce the price, offer incentives and better technology. The lower profits also keep these companies lean, mean and inventive which is good for the arms business. The price to JF-17 was $15-25 million and I am surprised at $10 price tag. Nonetheless it force Russia to offer MiG-29 Fulcrum at better terms to Egypt.

 

[Koga Ryu]

Rt is a real junk news from Russia
Russia have been bringing up issues with RD-93 for years and where is JF-17 now ?
I don't know how much you know about business but if Russia really thinks it can stop JF-17, it would have been done much earlier in the project, not now.
And nobody gives up millions in business in hope of getting a 'good laugh' 5 yrs later. You do business for business, not for laughs.
The only reason anyone would give up millions is because they don't think they have a good chance at it anyway.
and other aspect its good news for PAF they can buy J-11b. Chinese dont have to worry about intellectual property right for Su-27.

 

[muhammad asim aslam]

Mig planes are very heave thats y pilots feel fear to fly Mig.

and East or West jf-17 is d best

 

[Manticore]

.....
and other aspect its good news for PAF they can buy J-11b. Chinese dont have to worry about intellectual property right for Su-27.

have i missed out on something? has paf asked and china accepted the export of j11b?

 

[SomeGuy]

what the algeria is doing i don't know....but india and china is much better country than algeria and both country is using russian aircraft without any problem. india is the only country who can buy any aircraft from the world even F-35 from usa. but india prefer to buy russian aircraft and INdian airforce has no problem with that....

India has never had problems with Russian aircraft????!!!!

What about all those MiG crashes and the grounding of the MKIs?

 

[gowthamraj]

^ nope.

Sukhoi's are heavy series while mig's are between light and medium weight series.


Yes mig have lot of drawbacks like depending on ground control, just 700 km range, mega expansive and limited or no ground attack ability. But new upgrades take out this drawbacks and make it potent fighter