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Russia announces Orion UAV sale to Middle East country

all that civilisation hailing is absurd.. even if you are living in caves you may bea better human than someone who lives in a castle and there is no benefit in comparing the length of your grandfathers dick .. that wont make yours longer :) ;)

I am sure if Iran would not face sanctions.. and if west would not sanction them inofficially by boycotting their products.. Iran would have much more technology and would play a very big role in ME you would see Tanks, UAV + Armed vehicles etc much better than that what they have now..

but this needs political leaders that push for that and not only buy western products.. there lies the problem in many muslim countries you do not have such leaders.. and if there are some then they will be demonized by west and they will try to topple them..

with the correct leaders Iran could be modern (technology) like western/european countries that also counts for Pakistan and Turkey.. they just need the correct leaders and acceptence in the world and they would rise very very high but there is no help out if corruption and the love for west will continue..

Middle east should not buy so much western products it should make them by themselves..
 
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You did not invent anything. We Semites invented the first known empires in the world. Not only that but civilizations as a whole aside from the first cities, advanced cultures and basically the foundation of early advanced life of this earth (science, mathematics, agriculture, architecture, wheel, earliest known religions, writing, alphabet etc.).

You basically copied the bureaucracy, language (Aramaic), architecture, title (king of kings is an ancient Semitic title that monarchs from Yemen to Syria used) of existing and much older Semitic empires, kingdoms and civilizations.



Sure, and Iran is a scientific power (despite ranking lower than 33 million big KSA) which is ranked 28 worldwide according to the most renowned science journal in the world, Nature.

https://www.natureindex.com/annual-tables/2018/country/all:

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Anyway, I am quite sure that the buyer is an Arab country.

Congrats for your drone, that's a good step. I don't know maybe I am wrong but your drone is so similar to South Africa Bateleur MALE UAV but with better performance and endurance.

On history you are wrong ..

Hegel said

...In Persia first arises that light which shines itself and illuminates what is around... The principle of development begins with the history of Persia; this constitutes therefore the begining of history.

Jiroft civilization predated Mesopotamia and was advanced in many fields ... and don't make me talk about Iran other parts from north to south like Tepe Sialk or recently 7000 thousands civilization found in Shiraz ...
All nations had their own share in history as Iranian did ,,, when I said you can find its influences even in modern days even in America constitution ...
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Be it Christmas:
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For centuries, Mesopotamia was thought to be the world's oldest civilization and this was generally accepted by the people until a 5,000-year old temple was accidentally discovered in Jiroft Historical Site in Iran's southern Kerman province.
In 2000, floods along the Halil River stretching for some 390 km running in the Jiroft and Kahnuj districts of Kerman Province, Iran, revealed thousands of previously unknown tombs and since 2002, excavations in Jiroft began to reveal the cultural and historical remains of the region.

This event prompted archaeologists to identify the region as the world's oldest cradle of human civilization.

It has long been hypothesized that Jiroft is the legendary land of Aratta, a 'lost' Bronze Age kingdom of renown.

According to texts dating from around 2100 BC, Aratta was a beautifully decorated capital with a citadel fashioned with green lapis lazuli and its lofty towers of bright red brick.

Aratta's artistic production was famous and highly regarded.

About 2500 BC the Sumerian king Enmerkar sent a message to the ruler of Aratta requesting that artisans and architects be dispatched to his capital, Uruk, to build a temple to honor Inanna, the goddess of fertility and war.


Right, because everyone knows Iran has better aerospace engineers, better propulsion, better electronics and more experience.
No 'cause we didn't start working on drones yesterday we've been working on this technology since 80s, we've been brought down many isral and American drones and had chance to study them ... sure Russia has capable military power but it doesn't mean you've advantages to produce everything as American still relies on your engines ..

 
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Congrats for your drone, that's a good step. I don't know maybe I am wrong but your drone is so similar to South Africa Bateleur MALE UAV but with better performance and endurance.

On history you are wrong ..

Hegel said

...In Persia first arises that light which shines itself and illuminates what is around... The principle of development begins with the history of Persia; this constitutes therefore the begining of history.

Jiroft civilization predated Mesopotamia and was advanced in many fields ... and don't make me talk about Iran other parts from north to south like Tepe Sialk or recently 7000 thousands civilization found in Shiraz ...
All nations had their own share in history as Iranian did ,,, when I said you can find its influences even in modern days even in America constitution ...
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Be it Christmas:
View attachment 493998

For centuries, Mesopotamia was thought to be the world's oldest civilization and this was generally accepted by the people until a 5,000-year old temple was accidentally discovered in Jiroft Historical Site in Iran's southern Kerman province.
In 2000, floods along the Halil River stretching for some 390 km running in the Jiroft and Kahnuj districts of Kerman Province, Iran, revealed thousands of previously unknown tombs and since 2002, excavations in Jiroft began to reveal the cultural and historical remains of the region.

This event prompted archaeologists to identify the region as the world's oldest cradle of human civilization.

It has long been hypothesized that Jiroft is the legendary land of Aratta, a 'lost' Bronze Age kingdom of renown.

According to texts dating from around 2100 BC, Aratta was a beautifully decorated capital with a citadel fashioned with green lapis lazuli and its lofty towers of bright red brick.

Aratta's artistic production was famous and highly regarded.

About 2500 BC the Sumerian king Enmerkar sent a message to the ruler of Aratta requesting that artisans and architects be dispatched to his capital, Uruk, to build a temple to honor Inanna, the goddess of fertility and war.



No 'cause we didn't start working on drones yesterday we've been working on this technology since 80s, we've been brought down many isral and American drones and had chance to study them ... sure Russia has capable military power but it doesn't mean you've advantages to produce everything as American still relies on your engines ..


Did a Muslim country invent anything (in terms of military hardware) that was not invented before? I am yet to see it. It is either reverser engineering or joint projects.

I am not wrong as everything that I wrote is historically factual. Unless you can prove all historians of the world wrong, somehow.


There are older civilizations in KSA alone than anything found in Iran. Human habitation of KSA predates the one in Iran with 10.000's of years as humans have lived in Arabia much longer than in Iran.

Read about Al-Magar civilization/culture in Southern Najd. Oldest traces of domestication of horses, dogs etc. in the world and numerous other animals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Magar


From the Neolithic age (10.000 years ago). Speaking about the Neolithic age, it originated in Southern Sham/Northern Arabia and was created by ancestors of modern-day Arabs as mummies from the Natufian culture (earliest Neolithic civilization of the world) were discovered to cluster with modern-day Arabs, in particular Saudi Arabians and Jordanians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natufian_culture


BTW, your Jiroft is described as a culture, not a civilization and it only dates back to 3rd millennia BC.

Did you know that the Dilmun civilization (actually a civilization, not a culture) of Eastern Arabia (mainly Eastern Province of KSA and Bahrain) dates back to late 4th millennia BC? At least 1000 years older?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun



Anyway that is besides the point.

BTW, I noticed that you were saying that no parts of F-15's, F-16's etc. are made in KSA. You are wrong. Several parts of those planes are made inside KSA by Saudi Arabian hands. You should do a bit of research.
 
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@WinterNights Just this one:


SAUDI MAN SENTENCED TO 1,000 LASHES FOR PERFORMING ORAL SEX ON A CAMEL

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Jizan | A 26-year-old Saudi Arabian man has been sentenced to 1,000 lashes and two months in jail after he allegedly performed oral sex on one of his employer’s camels, reports the Riyadh Herald this week.

Abdullah al-Rashidi, 26, was tending to the herd of camels when he was caught performing a fellatio on one of the animals before local authorities were called in and proceeded to his arrest.

Al-Rashidi’s employer first hesitated before calling the police but said he could not tolerate such an act of perversion before God and that his employee’s actions needed to be punished.

“When I found him licking the camel’s penis, he first told me that he was drinking the sperm from the camel to cure his oral herpes infection,” his employer told the judge.

“I then asked him where he had heard that swallowing the sperm of a camel was a cure for anything,” he explained, visibly concerned.

“He then started crying and admitted that he just liked the taste. That is when I called the police,” his employer said in court.
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Drinking camel urine is reputed to have many health benefits but sperm is not known to have any curative powers admit experts.

Judge Muhammad El Fehdi expressed his moral disgust towards the young man, warning him that he had not only disgraced himself but his entire family before God.

“How ashamed your father and mother must be and how much they must regret giving birth to a son who enjoys fondling the genitals of camels,” the judge said in court.

Al-Rashidi’s parents also pleaded the judge to give their son a harsh punishment so as to deter him from repeating the offense.

“I already have to live with the shame of having a son who likes putting camel penises into his mouth, may this punishment at least scare him away from turning into a homosexual,” she pleaded the judge.
Not the first time
Under intense questioning from the judge, the defendant admitted that it was not his first offense but that he had taken part in such activities previously a number of times.

“I don’t know why I did it. I knew it was wrong but I could not resist,” said the young man, bursting into tears.

“Often sex with animals can lead to sleeping with human corpses or even worse, homosexuality,” the judge warned the defendant.
“You are a young man who is starting your life, and so I will give you a light punishment, but if you are to repeat this immoral and disgraceful practice, next time I will be less lenient,” the judge told the young man.

Abdullah al-Rashidi was sentenced to 1,000 lashes and two months in prison. According to Shariah law, in the case of bestiality, the animal becomes “unfit” and must be killed.

He was also sentenced to pay SR 18,000 ($5,000 USD) to replace the worth of five of the camels he admitted having inappropriate relations with.
 
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lol guys that may be an never ending story.. saif and iranians that combo is unbeatable
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Saudi Arabia is now a gay heaven

Result of an Oppressive Regime or Are Saudis Coming Out of the Closet?

Kimberly West, Yahoo Contributor Network

According to an article The Kingdom in the Closet in the May 2007 issue of the Atlantic Monthly, many in the Saudi population, both male and female, frequently engage in homosexual acts despite the fact that it is punishable by death under Islamic Sharia law. Homosexuality seems risky in a kingdom sometimes called "The Land of The Two Holy Mosques", a reference to Mecca and Medina, Islam's two holiest places. Much of the Kingdom's law is derived from an ultra-conservative form of Sunni Islam commonly known as Wahhabism, which has zero tolerance for diversity.
According to Western Resistance, one of the reasons that a large segment of the Saudi population engages in homosexual acts is that it's frankly easier to mingle with members of the same sex in the highly restrictive and oppressive regime--

According to Islamic law homosexuality is punishable by death. This punishment, however, is a poor deterrent. According to the article, most Saudi men become gay because it's easier to pick up a man than to find a woman. The situation is the same for young women. The article claims that Saudi Arabia's inhumane laws and dread morality police, which forbid dating between young men and women, in fact are a major factor pushing them towards homosexuality in their youth.

In his article, Queer Shiek, Being openly gay in Saudi Arabia used to be a death sentence-but times are changing, John R. Bradley describes the scene at a western-type mall in the city of Jeddah-

Gay Saudi men now cruise certain malls and supermarkets, openly making passes at each other, and one street in Jeddah is said to have the most traffic accidents in the city because it is the most popular place for Saudi drivers to pick up gay Filipinos, who strut their stuff on the sidewalk in tight jeans and cut-off t-shirts. (Filipinos are one of the larger groups of foreign workers in Saudi Arabia.) Meanwhile, gay and lesbian discos, gay-friendly coffee shops, and even gay oriented Internet chat rooms are now flourishing in some Saudi cities; in the chat rooms, gay and lesbian Saudis discuss the best places to meet people for one-night stands. "We talk about places that aren't gay cruising areas, because they're now in the minority," says one young gay Saudi, only half-jokingly.

These excerpts from the Atlantic Monthly article reflect some attitudes and realities about homosexuality in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia--

Talal, a Syrian youth who moved to Riyadh in 2000, calls the Saudi capital a ``gay heaven.''

``I used to have the feeling that I was the queerest in the country,'' said Yasser, a Saudi youth. ``But then I went to high school and discovered that there are others like me. Then I find out it's a whole society.''

Many gay expatriates say they feel more at home in the kingdom than in their native lands.

``Guys romp around and parade in front of you,'' said Marco, a 41-year old gay man from the Philippines living in Saudi Arabia. ``They will seduce you. It's up to you how many you want, every day.''

A magazine editor in Jeddah told me that many boys in Mecca, where he grew up have sexual relations with men, but they don't see themselves as gay.

``Homosexuality is considered to be a stage of life, particularly at youth.''

``[Saudi Arabia] is the land of sand and sodomites,'' said Tasmin, a female student who told me about the lesbian enclave at her school. ``The older men take advantage of the little boys.''

Dave, a gay American teacher living in Saudi Arabia, put it this way: ``Let's say there's a group of men sitting around a cafe. If a smooth faced boy walks by, they all stop and make approving comments. They're just noting: ``That's a hot little number.''

It seems that these homosexual men and women are risking their lives. An Islamic cleric quoted at Front Page Magazine writes about the sin of homosexuality, "This sin, the impact of which makes one's skin crawl, which words cannot describe, is evidence of perverted instincts, total collapse of shame and honor, and extreme filthiness of character and soul... The heavens, the Earth and the mountains tremble from the impact of this sin. The angels shudder as they anticipate the punishment of Allah to descend upon the people who commit this indescribable sin."

Amnesty International reports "gross human rights violations" in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, many against homosexuals, and reports incidents of capital punishment for homosexuals. A Chicago Free Press article reports this chilling story about the fate of three homosexual men in Saudi Arabia-

Now we learn that on January 1, 2002, Saudi Arabian authorities publicly beheaded three gay men after Islamic religious courts in the southwestern city of Abha declared them guilty of "engaging in the extreme obscenity and ugly acts of homosexuality, marrying among themselves and molesting the young," charges obviously exaggerated to provoke public outrage.

For the wealthy in Saudi Arabia, though, it appears that homosexuality is overlooked by the authorities. John Bradley writes-

The upper crust of Saudi society is becoming more open as well. Carmen bin Laden, the sister-in-law of Osama bin Laden, recently published a book, in French, titled Inside the Kingdom, which is a look at the life of the idle Saudi rich. In the book, The New York Times reported this month, bin Laden tells stories of homosexual affairs among the kingdom's wealthy and idle women. And Saudi anthropologist Mai Yamani has shown that all-female discos catering to rich Saudi women are often covers for lesbian get-togethers. Saudi princes, meanwhile, have frequented the Jeddah disco, where they openly interact with club-goers.

Is homosexuality in Saudi Arabia an "open secret" caused by a repressive Islamic regime that controls every aspect of its citizens' lives, including their sexuality under Sharia law? Is it the result of men-only and women-only interactions required by Muslim guidelines? Or, are the Saudis really coming out of the closet?

Sources:

The Kingdom in the Closet, The Atlantic Monthly, May 2007, The Kingdom in the Closet - Nadya Labi - The Atlantic (Saudi Arabia, Gay, Homosexuality, Lesbian, Sex, Sharia, Wahhabi, Muslim, Islam)

Sodomy Laws, http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saudi_arabia/saudi_arabia.htm (Saudi Arabia, Gay, Homosexuality, Lesbian, Sex, Sharia, Wahhabi, Muslim, Islam)

Queer Shiek, Being openly gay in Saudi Arabia used to be a death sentence-but times are changing, July/August 2004,http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saudi_arabia/saudinews025.htm (Saudi Arabia, Gay, Homosexuality, Lesbian, Sex, Sharia, Wahhabi, Muslim, Islam)

Saudi Arabia, Amnesty International, Amnesty International | Working to Protect Human Rights (Saudi Arabia, Gay, Homosexuality, Lesbian, Sex, Sharia, Wahhabi, Muslim, Islam)

Saudi Arabia: The Closet Kingdom, Gay Pride Flourishes in the Cradle of Islam, Western Resistance,

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003716.html (Saudi Arabia, Gay, Homosexuality, Lesbian, Sex, Sharia, Wahhabi, Muslim, Islam)

Helping Islamic Gays, Independent Gay Forum, (Originally appeared Feb. 6, 2002, in the Chicago Free Press, Indegayforum (Saudi Arabia, Gay, Homosexuality, Lesbian, Sex, Sharia, Wahhabi, Muslim, Islam)

Dr. Abdul Aziz Al-Fawzan, The Evil Sin of Homosexualityhttp://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.asp?ID=5704 Saudi Arabia, Gay, Homosexuality, Lesbian, Sex, Sharia, Wahhabi, Muslim, Islam)

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Uncivilized piss drinkers ....
 
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Saudi gays flaunt new freedoms: 'Straights can't kiss in public or hold hands like us'

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Jeddah: In the glass and marble shopping malls of this cosmopolitan and comparatively laid-back city on the Red Sea, young Saudi Arabian men are taking advantage of the emergence of an increasingly tolerated Western-oriented gay scene.


Certain malls are known as cruising areas, and there are even gay-friendly coffee shops. A big gay disco takes place at a private villa in the north of the city once a week. And young Saudis who frequent these venues, many returnees from the United States after the 11 September 2001 attacks, say that they get to know one another through the internet.


The paradox of Saudi Arabia is that while the executioner's sword awaits anyone convicted of the crime of sodomy, in practice homosexuality is tolerated.


"I don't feel oppressed at all," said one, a 23-year-old who was meeting in one of the coffee shops with a group of self-identified "gay" Saudi friends dressed in Western clothes and speaking fluent English. "I heard that after 11 September, a Saudi student who was going to be deported on a visa technicality applied for political asylum because he was gay," he added, provoking laughter from the others. "What was he thinking of? We have more freedom here than straight couples. After all, they can't kiss in public like we can, or stroll down the street holding one another's hand."


Saudi Arabia's domestic reform initiative, combined with the kingdom's eagerness to shed an international reputation for fostering extremism and intolerance, may even have some benefits for this strict Islamic society's gay community. Shortly after the attacks on America - most of the suicide-hijackers were Saudi nationals - a Saudi diplomat in Washington denied that the kingdom beheads homosexuals, while openly admitting that "sodomy" is practised by consenting males in Saudi Arabia "on a daily basis". Even the head of the notorious religious police has since acknowledged the existence of a local gay population.


The treatment of gay men here received international attention when an Interior Ministry statement reported in January 2002 that three men in the southern city of Abha had been "beheaded for homosexuality". The report provoked widespread condemnation from gay and human-rights groups in the West - and a swift denial from an official at the Saudi embassy in Washington, DC. Tariq Allegany, an embassy spokesman, said the three were beheaded for the sexual abuse of boys. He said: "I would guess there's sodomy going on daily in Saudi Arabia, but we don't have executions for it all the time."


A Riyadh-based Western diplomat, aware of the details of the case, confirmed the men were beheaded for "rape". "The three men seduced a number of very young boys and videoed themselves raping them. Then they used the recordings, and the fear the boys had of being exposed, to get the youngsters to recruit their friends," he said. While homosexuality is illegal in Saudi Arabia, doubt surrounds specific punishment for it. Some gay foreigners were deported in the 1990s, "but no Saudi has ever been prosecuted for 'being a homosexual'. The concept just doesn't exist here," the Western diplomat said. Since the uproar over the beheadings, the kingdom's Internet Services Unit, responsible for blocking sites deemed "unIslamic" or politically sensitive, unblocked access to its home page for gay Saudi surfers after being bombarded with critical e-mails from the US.


A S Getenio, manager of GayMiddleEast.com, said Saudi Arabia seemed concerned about the bad publicity blocking the site would bring, "at the time it was involved in a multi-million dollar advertising campaign in the US to improve its image".


Ibrahim bin Abdullah bin Ghaith, the head of the religious police (the Committee for the Prevention of Vice and the Promotion of Virtue) acknowledged, in unusually tempered language, that there are gay Saudis, while also speaking of the need "to educate the young" about this "vice". But he denied media reports that gay and lesbian relationships were the norm in the strictly segregated schools and colleges, that homosexuality "is spreading".


In an unprecedented two-page special investigation, the daily newspaper said lesbianism was "endemic" among schoolgirls. It justified the article with a saying of the Prophet's wife Ayeshathat "there should be no shyness in religion". The article told of lesbian sex in school lavatories, girls stigmatised after refusing the advances of their fellow students, and teachers complaining that none of the girls were willing to change their behaviour.


Mr Ghaith dismissed a suggestion that he should send his "enforcers" to investigate. Armed with sticks, they routinely hunt down men and women in public they suspect may not be directly related. "This perversion is found in all countries," he told. "The number [of homosexuals] here is small ..." That assessment is contradicted by teachers and students who say that, in the absence of other outlets, a "gay" subculture has inevitably flourished among youth.


"A particularly beautiful boy always gets top marks in the exams because he's some teacher's favourite," said Mohammed, an English teacher in a government high school in Riyadh. "On the other hand, I know many older boys who deliberately flunked their final exams so they can stay ... with their younger sweethearts."


Ahmed, 19, a student at a private college in Jeddah, said there was no shame in having a boyfriend in his private high school. Although he firmly rejected the label "gay", he admitted that he now has a "special friend" in college, too. "It's those who don't have a boy who are ashamed to admit it. We introduce our boy to our friends as 'al walid hagi' [the boy who belongs to me]. At the beginning of term, we always check out the new boys to see which are the most ' helu' [sweet] and think of ways to get to know them."

Saudi gays flaunt new freedoms: 'Straights can't kiss in public or hold hands like us' - Middle East - World - The Independent
 
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How murder exposed Saudi prince's homosexual life
BBC News


A Saudi prince has been jailed for life for murdering his manservant, who was found beaten to death in bed at a plush London hotel. The defendant spent most of the trial trying to prove he was not gay. Why?

Before his trial began at the Old Bailey, Prince Saud bin Abdulaziz bin Nasir al Saud made strenuous efforts to keep the question of his homosexuality secret.

The 34-year-old prince admitted he had assaulted his manservant, Bandar Abdulaziz, but denied murder.

His barrister, John Kelsey-Fry QC, argued the question of sexuality was irrelevant to the case and pointed out homosexual acts were a "mortal sin" under Islamic sharia law.

Mr Kelsey-Fry said if the prince was outed as a homosexual he could face execution in his native Saudi Arabia.



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The couple stayed for almost a month at the Landmark Hotel in London

Jonathan Laidlaw QC, prosecuting, argued that if he was convicted and recommended for deportation after serving his sentence he would be able to claim asylum in Britain by arguing that his life was in danger, whether or not he actually was gay.

He said it was not for a defendant "to edit the prosecution evidence".

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Bandar Abdulaziz was an orphan

Christoph Wilcke, a Saudi Arabia expert with Human Rights Watch, said homosexuals had in the past been executed but it was usually for rape and he said a prince would be immune from court action.

When the trial began, Mr Kelsey-Fry went to great lengths to stress his client denied he was gay.

But a string of witnesses suggested otherwise.

A hotel porter, Dobromir Dimitrov, himself homosexual, said: "I would describe them as a gay couple."

But Mr Kelsey-Fry, cross examining Mr Dimitrov, told him: "It is not accepted that this was in fact a gay couple - but I readily accept that you had the impression they were a gay couple."

Two male escorts, Pablo Silva and Louis Szikora, also gave evidence they had performed sex acts on the prince.

Although the prince never gave evidence, during police interviews he insisted he was heterosexual and had a girlfriend in Saudi Arabia.

But Mr Laidlaw said this was a lie: "The defendant's keeping back of his homosexuality might in other circumstances, because of the cultural background perhaps, be explained away by embarrassment, or indeed, fear.

"But the defendant's concealing of the sexual aspect to his abuse of the victim was, we will argue, for altogether more sinister reasons."

When he was found in the bed in Room 312 of the Landmark Hotel in central London, the victim had bite marks on his cheeks. The police also found naked photographs of him on the prince's mobile

All this, suggested Mr Laidlaw, suggested a "sexual element" to the abuse which led to the victim's death.

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His royal heritage could not save the prince from British justice
The prince, whose mother was one of 50 children of the late King Saud, paid for his 32-year-old manservant to fly around the world and stay in the best hotels.

Together in London they went shopping, dined in the best restaurants and drank champagne and cocktails in swanky nightclubs.

They shared a bed but the prince frequently subjected his manservant to violent attacks, such as the beating which was captured on the CCTV camera in a hotel lift three weeks before Bandar Abdulaziz's death.

In the footage, the victim makes no attempt to fight back and afterwards walks meekly after his master like a scolded dog.

Professor Gregory Gause, a Saudi Arabia expert, said: "Homosexuality is considered extremely shameful in Saudi Arabia and there is not a publicly acknowledged homosexual community.

"It's still closeted. But, for young Saudi men, contact with the opposite sex is extremely difficult so there might be a temptation to experiment before marriage," said Prof Gause, from the University of Vermont.

He said about 5,000 Saudi princes get a yearly stipend of about $200,000 (£126,000), but some were "fabulously wealthy".

Lift assault
An insight into the prince's bashfulness about his homosexuality was given by one of the escorts, Mr Szikora, who described visiting the prince for a two-hour "erotic" session three days before the murder.

He said: "The man I met ultimately did want sexual massage but it is like mixing Nigel Havers with Omar Sharif. You have to build some rapport.

"Middle Eastern gentlemen, they are not as open about what they want as people in the West."

The prince's father, Prince Abdulaziz, attended his son's trial at the Old Bailey
Whatever the exact relationship between the prince and his manservant, when he overstepped the mark with his beatings and inflicted fatal injuries on Bandar, he tried to conceal it by concocting a cover story.

He claimed his manservant had been beaten up and robbed of 3,000 euros in Edgware Road three weeks before, and suggested those injuries must have led to his death.

His lies were exposed by the post mortem, which showed the injuries were fresh, and by CCTV footage in the lift, which showed it was the prince who inflicted those earlier injuries.

He later admitted causing the injuries which led to Bandar's death.

Now the prince has been jailed for life and ordered to spend up to 20 years behind bars in Britain before being deported back to Saudi Arabia.

But Mr Wilcke said: "Irrespective of the court verdict, his humiliation has already taken place. A family council will have been held and he will probably have his money cut off."

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This CCTV footage taken inside the hotel's lift exposed the prince's lies and proved he had been ill-treating his manservant

BBC News - How murder exposed Saudi prince's homosexual life

Barbar animals ...
 
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Saudi Arabia has the world’s largest gay population demographic in percentage of population in the entire world, hidden from view

For Samir [name changed], a 34-year-old gay man living in Saudi Arabia, each day is a denial. He lives in Mecca, the holiest city according to Islam, and is acutely aware of the stigma that surrounds his gay lifestyle.
“I’m a Muslim. I know it’s forbidden, but I can’t help it,” he tells ABC News, clearly conflicted.
“I pray to God to help me be straight, just to avoid hell. But I know that I’m gay and I’m living as one, so I can’t see a clear vision for the future.”


Samir, like many gay men in the Arab world, guards his sexual orientation with a paranoid secrecy. To feel free he takes long vacations to Thailand, where he has a boyfriend, and spends weekends in Lebanon, which he regards as having a more gay-tolerant society.

But at home in Saudi Arabia, he is vigilant. Samir’s parents don’t know of his lifestyle. He says his mom would kill herself if she found out. They constantly set him up with women they consider potential wives. At work, Samir watches his words, careful not to arouse the suspicion of colleagues.

“You can’t let a word slip that makes you seem gay-friendly or gay,” he says. “Before you make a move you have to think.”

Samir occasionally goes to Saudi cafes known to be popular gay hangouts, but his public engagements stop there. He and his friends are constantly wary of officers from the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, the kingdom’s religious police, who patrol for and punish men they suspect of being gay.

Homosexuality is illegal in Saudi Arabia, but the charge calls for four witnesses to make a case. Arrests by the religious police are far more arbitrary. In a recent case they apprehended one man at a Jeddah shopping mall, suspecting he was gay from his tight jeans and fitted shirt.

“I’ve been invited to private parties for gay men in Jeddah, but I never go because I know what would happen if we were caught,” Samir told ABC News.

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Saudi Arabia has the world’s largest gay population demographic in percentage of population in the entire world, hidden from view.

“Unless it’s a VIP house — if the party is at the home of one of the princes or one of the sheiks then you’re protected.”

In Saudi Arabia, where men and women are strictly separated, there is some space for gay life. Gay men can go cruising — a term for picking up partners — and socialize in male-only sections of cafes and restaurants. In line with sex-segregated social norms, gay lovers can often spend intimate time together without arousing suspicion.

But gays and lesbians in Saudi Arabia still need to accommodate the pressures of public life, in some cases pairing off to accommodate a freer lifestyle.

“There is a gay group of girls in Saudi looking for gay men to marry. It’s the perfect solution,” says Samir, adding that he wouldn’t mind a lesbian wife of his own.

Online Freedom but With Entrapment Risks

For Samir, the dozens of emerging Web forums for gay Arab men are a freer alternative to the offline Saudi society. I met him in one such forum, called Arab Gay Love, e-cruising for new friends and partners. Some of the users there surf with screen names that specify their sexual role: “top” or “bottom.” Among Arabs, it seems, a mix of stigma and machismo steers gay men toward the former.

“The more masculine you are, the more likely you are to label yourself as a ‘top.’ It re-enforces this feeling that you’re not really gay,” said Ahmed*, a gay Palestinian born in Kuwait. “They’re more comfortable with being tops, because it’s easier to negate [the gay stigma].”

Gay Web Sites Blocked in Many Arab Countries

Web forums like arab-gay.com and manhunt.net are inaccessible in many Arab countries, blocked by state-run web filtering software. Using proxy servers men can get around the bans to the blocked sites, connecting with potential dates and building a knowledge base for gay life in the Arab world.

One blog from Syria, largely considered a repressed society, details a tourist’s guide to gay hangouts in Damascus and Aleppo.

“You could almost pick up guys everywhere, you just need to have a good gaydar. …There are four hammams in Damascus where you could play safely, but always be careful,” he writes, then listing the most popular “hammams,” or bath houses. He goes on to name the Safwan Hotel in Lattakia as “the most famous gay-friendly hotel in the region.”

From his home in Mecca, Samir can surf the web forums and Facebook groups that connect him to the gay Arab world. But he does so with care, fearing that authorities will follow and flag gay activity online.

“You cannot be safe and intimate online. … he government can track everything. If they have their eye on you, they can follow your every move,” he says.

If Samir’s approach seems paranoid, it’s conditioned by horror stories of harsh crackdowns by Arab governments on gay life. In Egypt, where police have systematically arrested and tortured suspected homosexuals, vice squads have logged on to chat rooms posing as gay men. Forming friendships under a false identity, the police set up an expected first date, then meet their “suspects” with a brutal arrest.

“I was waiting for that guy I chatted with on the Internet a couple of days before that day, right in front of McDonald’s [in] Heliopolis. … It was almost 1 p.m., when I found four big guys surrounding me,” one victim of police brutality told Human Rights Watch after being set up on a false date.

“I was fighting and yelling in the street. I was dragged, almost carried to the police car … taken to [the station], the ‘Adab’ Section, which takes care of prostitution, raping and, recently, homosexuality.” Human Rights Watch documented dozens of Web-based entrapments — men arrested by Egyptian police then tormented with beatings, electrocution and anal examinations.

The vice squad’s practice of covertly hunting gay men in chat rooms cooled once the teeming gay Internet scene in Egypt slowed down. Fear and suspicion effectively shut down one of gay Egypt’s few free outlets. At one point online entrapment was yielding one arrest per week, according to Human Rights Watch.

The Web was part of a greater crackdown in Egypt, a country that was once a liberal environment for homosexuals. (One gay Palestinian who has studied Arab homophobia described 20th century Egypt as the “San Francisco of the Middle East.”) Social and authoritarian attitudes toward homosexuality began to change after the Egyptian Revolution in 1952, and grew steadily harsher through the 1990s as the secular state gave way to a growing Islamic puritanism.

Government-led assaults on homosexuals intensified in 2001. The pivot point was a mass arrest known as the “Queen Boat” incident. In the early morning hours of May 11, 2001, police raided a floating nightclub called the Queen Boat, a then-popular gay hangout moored on the Nile River. Suddenly surrounded by uniformed and undercover members of the Cairo Vice Squad, dozens of gay men were arrested, detained and tortured.

U.S. Government Has Been Quiet About Gay Crackdown in Iraq

What ensued from the Queen Boat arrests was a show trial — forced confessions, some extracted under torture and a media circus designed to amplify public fear and maximize the government’s political gain from the arrest. Though Egypt claims to have no law against homosexuality, it routinely criminalizes and prosecutes gay men under a law prohibiting “juhur,” or debauchery, a charge originally levied for prostitution.

In the heat of the case, one article in the state-owned Al-Gomhoureya newspaper gave full names and identifying details of the accused, depicting the arrested homosexuals as part of an underground religious cult. The paper ran one headline, “Satanist Pervert Surprises: They Called Themselves God’s Soldiers and Practice Group Sex in Private and Public … Meetings Every Thursday at Queen Boat,” cited in the Human Rights Watch report.

Analysts point out a number of ways the Egyptian government gains from crackdowns like the Queen Boat raid. News pages full of homophobic rants are a useful distraction from issues like a faltering economy and rampant corruption, which erode government support. In the same stroke, the state gains ground against its Islamist opponents by attacking homosexuals — trumped-up offenders against Muslim values. “They want to reassert their relevance and position themselves as defenders of morality is one way to do it,” said Scott Long, an expert who helped produce the Human Rights Watch report.

“One of the ways [Arab authorities] prove they’re bona fide is by cracking down on people that everyone hates. Hardly anyone is going to stand up and stick up for homosexuals,” he said.

Long applies his analysis to other governments in the region. In 2005, authorities in Abu Dhabi, part of the United Arab Emirates, arrested more than two dozen men in the desert town of Ghantout at an event state officials characterized as a mass gay wedding. The UAE announced the men would receive lashings, jail time and forced hormone and psychological treatment. The case was eventually overturned on appeal, after news of the trial drew criticism from human rights activists and the U.S. State Department.

The U.S. government has been comparatively quiet, though, through a more recent and more deadly crackdown in Iraq. In attacks that accelerated last February, Shiite militiamen have carried out a series of beatings and assassinations of gay men, occasionally with the help of the Interior Ministry, according to Scott Long of Human Rights Watch. Al Qaeda in Iraq, a rival Islamist group, has also reportedly attacked gay men in Iraq, in what human rights activists call a clear moral cleansing campaign.

“The easiest group to attack are gay people, both politically and in regards to the militias’ Islamist aims. … They can’t stop women from going to work, they can’t stop couples from being together in public, but they can attack gay men,” said Michael Luongo, a gay rights expert and author of the book “Gay Travels in the Muslim World.”

“If you want religious credibility you attack gay people,” he said of the Islamist brigades. The recent spate of attacks followed a succession of sermons in Iraqi mosques, attacking the scourge of homosexuality. As in the case of Egyptian arrests, suspected homosexuals were detained, tortured, and forced to give names of other gay men for authorities to pursue.

Small Space for Gay Pride

Long recently traveled to Iraq to document the attacks and advocate for gay Iraqis under attack.

“There’s a campaign to kill them,” he said, describing how homosexuals have learned to protect themselves by keeping a low profile. “They hide. People turn off their phones, change their e-mail addresses, and stay home.”

Outside the spaces of hostile discrimination, homosexuals in the Middle East do manage to form a community and enjoy a freer lifestyle.

Israel, perhaps the most tolerant state in the Middle East, has a thriving gay community. Last year thousands attended the annual gay pride parade in Tel Aviv, though the event has drawn right-wing protests and attacks. A similar parade in Jerusalem, a more socially conservative environment, took place with police protection along the parade route.

Up the coast in Lebanon, a relatively liberal Arab society plays host to the first gay rights group in the Arab world. Members of Helem, an acronym in Arabic for “Lebanese Protection for Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals and Transgenders,” are activists at their own peril. In a country that moves back and forth between secularism and religious politics, the group and its gay community center are creating a space for their freedom.

In other parts of the Arab world gay life has to fit into whatever space is provided, and the borders are constantly moving. In Dubai, arguably the most modern city in Arabia, gay expats have little trouble living and loving freely. Rashid, a young Lebanese expat who lives with his partner in Dubai, knows he has it better than most. Unlike many gays in the Gulf, Rashid has come out to his parents, and felt comfortable meeting men and dating as he grew up in Abu Dhabi.

Locals, he says, have a harder time. “The Europeans and Westerners are more comfortable with their homosexuality. The locals, the Saudis and Bahrainis, are less open about it,” Rashid told ABC News.

“One friend, an Emirati, was discovered to be gay at 1999 and his family disowned him. Last we heard he was deported, he can no longer come back to the UAE, and lives in France.”

The mix of tolerance and discrimination across the Middle East creates little opportunity for a cohesive gay rights movement. Moreover, the local take on homosexuality is out of line with the Western norm, a notion of being gay as a recognized minority group.

“The phrase ‘to be is not to do’ is how I explain it,” said Luongo of homosexuality in the Arab world. In other words, being gay is an act, not an identity. When gay pride does emerge, it is associated with the West, and an invading cultural colonialism. The pushback on any budding gay rights movements will likely continue, part of ongoing discrimination against homosexuals in the Middle East. There, gays will continue their negotiated lifestyle, knowing that they live and love under scrutiny.

Saudi Gay Scene: 'Forbidden, but I can't Help It' - ABC News
 
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Over 46% of Suadis are homosexuals, 23%of Suadis have been Raped


Over 23% of Muslim children in a University study claimed to have been raped (1/4 of the entire population). Over 46% of Muslim male students in Riyadh are homosexuals, and over 25% of Muslim male student in Jeddah are homosexuals. Homosexual relations are common due to restriction of association between genders.
The actual percentage of sexual assault on children and women, beyond this University study, is believed to be over 80%.

(In broader surveys sexual assault and incest of children in Islamic societies are much higher than in this study.)

TRANSCRIPT:


Guest – More than 23% of children in Saudi society have been raped.

Host — So about a quarter of Saudi children have been–

Guest – About a quarter of Saudi children have been raped. Sixty-two percent of those people—

Host — Those children.

Guest – No, I’m sorry, the study was directed at university students. Twenty-three percent had been raped during their childhood. For 62% of those, the rape was never reported. This was because it was one of the victim’s relatives.
In the study, it was mentioned that more than 16% of the rapists were relatives, specifically 5% were siblings, 2% were teachers, and 1% were parents.
In another study, which was conducted by Dr. In’am (al-Rabu’i), who is the president of children’s studies at the Armed Forces Hospital in Jeddah, she mentioned, or warned, that in the coming years we will suffer as a society from extremely widespread cases of homosexuality. The reason for this is the increase in the cases of sexual assault of children (brought) to the hospital, as well as the societal violence inflicted on children. She also mentioned that the hospital had on average three sexual assault cases per week.

Host — How large of an area did the study cover?

Guest – I don’t know, this is just what she mentioned on behalf of the Saudi nation. It was published on behalf of the nation, and can be considered very reliable. In addition to that, there is a study from the Office of Societal Supervision, which is also very serious. This study reported that 46% of students in the city of Riyadh suffer from homosexuality. Twenty-five percent of students in Jeddah suffer from homosexuality. We must be aware of this in order to combat these numbers quickly. The society has become fragmented. When we have a percentage of students—children or teenagers—who are gay, this is a catastrophe, a true catastrophe. I mean, we don’t have a strong society. We should really look at this more seriously.

Host — This is a new thing in Saudi Arabia for newspapers to write articles on this subject. The studies which you mentioned, are they saying this is something new?

Guest – No, it’s not new.
 
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It's true bro, even in real life, these people are useless cowards man. One slap and he'll be crying like a faggot (which he probably is)
After all, most of these sub-humans are gays thanks to wahhabized culture.
 
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