Russia and India are negotiating construction of new frigates - CAWAT

[sancho]

I am fine with the frigates being built in India, but not at the cost of delays due to lack of capacity where the ships get stuck in backlogs.

What delays, we are not in the need to replace older frigates now, IN is actually doing well in all areas other than SSKs, but they are expanding their size and reach and our industry must expand their capabilities accordingly. It's nuts to develop indigenous vessels with good capability, but then keep ordering foreign frigates that are less capable. And the last P17 was commissioned in 2012, so more than enough time to produce more, or increase capacities don't you think?

why not convert Kamorta Class corvette into frigate. As it is already around 3400 T and Talwar class is 4000 T Weight.
It more suitable and better for export prospected.

The question is more about the production side not the vessels itself, are we able to produce more own vessels or do we have to buy more Russian frigates, I mean it's not like this will stop here if we go on like that. When P17A will be available, the Russians will have improved frigates too and will offer them to IN as well. So should we buy them again, only because we fail to increase our production capacities? We have a few areas if indigenous defence developments that works good (naval vessels and helicopters), but strangely exactly here we keep buying more foreign counterparts.

 

[vsdave2302]

Not quite, since the shipyards are still pretty booked with other older orders, so if Russia can supply the ships in timely manner then we might go through with this deal.

Russian Mall is cheaper than Desi mall.

 

[Penguin]

Sir,can't we re-configure or in a manner customize these frigates to install Barak-8 missiles??I mean if the Israelis are planning the same with their Sa'ar-5 class corvettes which are no more than 1000 tonnes in displacement then why can'[t we do the same thing with these frigates afterall they are significantly heavies and longer than the Sa'ar-5 ones???

If you have spare money to burn and time to spare (since Barak 8 is still not fully ready, and integration into the 11356 would add time to their delivery), maybe. Talwar's are not AAW ships: do they need Barak 8? What else would need to change to effectively support that missile (CMS, Radars) > before you know it it is half a different ship > more expensive, late delivery.

Another question,do you think it would be better for the I.N. to go ahead and purchase the newer Gorshkov class instead of these modified Krivak-V ones??

The hull of the GOrshkov class appears to be a further development of the 11356 hull. An export version was presented in model form fitted with ... the same SAM and radars as on 11356. The Russian version.... well, I think the Russians would like to reserve building capacity for their own navy (it is not like they are cranking them out like hot cakes).Plus, why add yet another class to IN? Logistically, makes much more sense to stay with 11356.[/quote]

Well to be quite fair the the Talwar deliveries to India where hardly without incident. The second lot ended up costing an additional $100 million and all 3 were delivered 6 months late. Yes not Vikramditya levels of ineptitude but still far from ideal.

As compared to what? The perfect record of Indian yards?

I see no reason why it wouldn't be the AK-630s again, unless the IN has by then selected its next generation of gun CIWS (for which it is hunting for right now), the Kashtan was found to perform sub-optimally in Indian conditions.

On most larger new ship IN has aimed for 2 layers of missile. This would have Shtil and AK630. But the Gorshkov has the newer Palma system and coming online is also a naval version of the latest evolution of Pantsir. IIRC India was also looking a a new domestic SAM, to some extent based on VL Mice. Hence my remark.

is Vikramaditya really expensive? I think total cost of carrier was $2.3B. India's first aircraft carrier is projected to cost more than 18000 Cr( ~3B). My guess is actual cost would be few thousand crores more.

What I have read, Almost everything but hull is new on Vikramaditya. Looks like a fair deal to me.

I like Vikramaditya. So, no need to convince me.

why not convert Kamorta Class corvette into frigate. As it is already around 3400 T and Talwar class is 4000 T Weight.
It more suitable and better for export prospected.
@sancho @Agent_47 @Abingdonboy @Penguin

Convert? Essentially you would need to scale her up. Again that;'s a new design, which add time and involves risk. Which is not the case with 11356. And, what would be the advantage?

 

[Penguin]

why not convert Kamorta Class corvette into frigate. As it is already around 3400 T and Talwar class is 4000 T Weight.
It more suitable and better for export prospected.
@sancho @Agent_47 @Abingdonboy @Penguin

uHM, 3400 TONS? 2500 tons standard displacement iirc

 

[Etilla]

These will be classified as Shivalik class?

 

[Echo_419]

What delays, we are not in the need to replace older frigates now, IN is actually doing well in all areas other than SSKs, but they are expanding their size and reach and our industry must expand their capabilities accordingly. It's nuts to develop indigenous vessels with good capability, but then keep ordering foreign frigates that are less capable. And the last P17 was commissioned in 2012, so more than enough time to produce more, or increase capacities don't you think?



The question is more about the production side not the vessels itself, are we able to produce more own vessels or do we have to buy more Russian frigates, I mean it's not like this will stop here if we go on like that. When P17A will be available, the Russians will have improved frigates too and will offer them to IN as well. So should we buy them again, only because we fail to increase our production capacities? We have a few areas if indigenous defence developments that works good (naval vessels and helicopters), but strangely exactly here we keep buying more foreign counterparts.

& why are people forgetting we have underutilized capacity at private shipyards

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Well the Godavaris and Bhramaputra class ships will need replacement soon...so to field a better force structure ordering more ships namely the Krivak class is a valid option IMHO.

Lesser Logistic troubles and easier training of crews compared to a new class of frigates. The P 17A construction will start soon. The Krivaks will make an ideal escort ships for the Two CBGs that are planned for now.

 

[SpArK]