Russia against developing military ties with Pakistan

[ptldM3]

are you saying China is not developing fighter aircraft way better than the SU-33?

How would they develope something way better when the Flanker broke or set almost every world record. You think China can make better avionics? You think China has the capability to beat or match the IRBIS-E, OLS-35, or 117s?

 

[blain2]

Life goes on...it would be different if Pakistan was dependent on Russians for hardware and they had pulled the plug. These sort of statements make sense when the MRCA contract is up for grabs. Secondly, as time goes by, within the Pakistani security establishment, a realization has dawned that if Pakistan is to work from inception with Chinese on specific projects, it optimizes the solution/system for Pakistan much better, and along with it we get ToT and more favourable fiscal terms than with any others.

I am sure if given an opportunity, Pakistan would explore certain Russian systems, however it would never be at a very large scale (certainly never bigger than what we do with China).

 

[forcetrip]

How would they develope something way better when the Flanker broke or set almost every world record. You think China can make better avionics? You think China has the capability to beat or match the IRBIS-E?

I dont want to repeat threads already posted here about how pissed russia was when they cancelled thier su27 order after developing their own good copy.

 

[ptldM3]

I dont want to repeat threads already posted here about how pissed russia was when they cancelled thier su27 order after developing their own good copy.

What does this have to do with anything? China broke it's contract if it kept developing, "their own good copy[ies]". Also (according to you), they fooled the Russian into giving them technology and then continued the eligall manufacture of the aircraft.

BTW anyone would be "pissed"

 

[karan.1970]

When there is a smoke....... There is a fire

Russia never needed to give such a statement in past We had diplomatic relationships with russia almost closer to none. So why Putin needed to give this statement in first place?

Who knows if there are some confidential talks going on between Pakistan and Russia after strong ties of India and America?

History is changing itself once again

dil ko behlaane ko, galib yeh khayal acchha hai

 

[Aryaputra]

Russia is all money which unfortunately Pakistan does not have.

Well not true at all.

Yes, Russia might approve engine sell indirectly through China to Pakistan but then, Russia can't stop China either. There is a limit on how much Russia can affect Chinese policies.

I will put it this way,

USA = All about money, Want to dominate World, Hungry for power.
China = Want to dominate Asia, Hungry for Land and Power.

China is biggest fool of Asia, who is dividing its own home by colluding with similar-minded people in USA. Though I must mention, Western powers were involved in putting seeds of war on Indo-Chinese borders post 1950, because the puppet Nehru blindly depended on Gora advisors on Chinese border policies. And, rest is history. Noone took efforts to bridge the divide. Now, its too late anyways.

Russia is not in same league. Why?

Well, many people won't agree with me but strategic relationships are based on ethnic and historic reasons, more than simplistic considerations like 'democracy' which is as grey as 'war on terror'.

Now, Russia and USA both are majority christians so, why they are enemies?

Answer is not "communism".

Go, figure! Now, if you figured that, you would get answer for why Indo-Russia friendship is best one in the world. I will keep answer as secret.

Americans are cleverly balancing the power equations. When China failed to convince Russia for design ToT of big body aircrafts, USA jumped in with Boeing ToT.

Ultimate aim for USA is, "keep the Asia burning by making asians cut each other". USA is following "Divide and Rule" since 1947. The Kashmir problem is just small example of that. Jehad came to Asia from American labs.

PS: post WW-II, British NWFP Governer Olaf Caroe advised USA, on Kashmir & MiddleEast policy.

 

[forcetrip]

What does this have to do with anything? China broke it's contract if it kept developing, "their own good copy[ies]". Also (according to you), they fooled the Russian into giving them technology and then continued the eligall manufacture of the aircraft.

BTW anyone would be "pissed"

Well it has to do something with you saying china does not have the capability to produce something better than su33 .. I have no energy into explaining to you where china stands economically against the russians or militarily for that fact. No doubt Russian hardware is better than the chinese as far as we know till the 2008's. If not for the money those engines wouldnt have seen a JF17 ever.

 

[prithwidw]

Russia would not ever sell any military hardware to China because:

1. China would do a reverse engineering
2. Then export cheap products to countries like Pakistan

Grow up guys, this ain't the 50 cent army.

If China has been so superior technologically, it still would not be a 3rd world county in-spite of all its media controlled developments.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Is that why Russia said no to selling China the SU-33.

Its more because Russia is afraid that China will reverse engineer it and field a much better fighter. No matter how much Russia tries it cannot compete with China in the long run, China alone can outspend Russia/India combined and unlike the Indians they deliver with results. China's budget for R&D and education is rising at its fastest pace, there is simply no way the Russians can compete with that. Just like the US, China can work on dozens of projects simultaneously because they have the cash and technical expertise. Example being AWACS, Missile Technology, Radars, Avionics, Fighter Aircrafts, Naval Ships, Tanks etc. Russia can be thankfull that they have inherited an excellent infrastructure from the Mighty Soviet Empire, but the technology Russia inherited from Soviet Empire's dying days is quickly becaming obsolete now. Unlike the 90's where the Chinese focused on quantity, they are now focusing heavily on quality. Not just in military terms, in pretty much every sector.

P.S. Didnt Putin personally allow export for RD 93 engines . I must say we should be thankfull to Russians because a delay in the delivery of RD 93 would have delayed the JF17 project by atleast 5 years.

 

[Peregrine]

Hi,
Like it or not but arguments like this one are really stupid all i get from Indians perspective was this, that after Putins statement Pakistan will go down the hill in every aspect! okay so whats the catch guys even if we admit that this statement was a big blow on Pakistan's diplomacy or foreign policy........ i guess ill answer my self.... A good night sleep for Indian fanboys!!! okay guys sleep tight i hope u guys wont have any night mares about Pakistan from now onwards

 

[manojb]

^^^
Nah no nightmares as long as flankers r in the sky and raptors r not around. But i must admit we have bed bugs problems. Those suckers are problem to both hosts and neighbors!

Back to topic. This will shut those who believed in theory that indo-us ties creates crack in indo-russian relationship

 

[Kompromat]

Is that why Russia said no to selling China the SU-33.

I think Its another Russian Card

Let them get Kicked out of MMRCA and Su-33 would end up in PLAN.

 

[TOPGUN]

Well iam sure the Indian's are very happy to hear this news haha anyhow we don't need the russians you guys keep em and keep getting ripped off now that is all is well

 

[below_freezing]

Russia would not ever sell any military hardware to China because:

1. China would do a reverse engineering
2. Then export cheap products to countries like Pakistan

Grow up guys, this ain't the 50 cent army.

If China has been so superior technologically, it still would not be a 3rd world county in-spite of all its media controlled developments.

sorry i gotta laugh at this:

indians don't reverse engineer not because they are honorable but because they lack the ability to engineer anything at all.

engineer something of your own and put it into service plz.

our J-10 is already mass manufactured, our 054a frigates, 052 destroyers (both with stealth design and independent cell cold launch VLS different from both western independent cell hot launch VLS and russian revolver VLS) are already in the water and shot at pirates while indians frigates and destroyers are 20 years old, type 039, 093 and 094 conventional and nuclear subs are swimming in the indian ocean, type 99 tank already in tibet waiting to roll.

where are your frigates, destroyers, independent 3rd generation tanks, mass manufactured domestic planes? 77 large surface combatants over 4000 tons on our side vs your 28.

i'm not even mentioning the things that were reverse engineered like J-11.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

I have said trillions of times on this forum.

Consider the following situation in coming 10 years.

Russia will change the tables from India to Pakistan.

Russia will change the tables because India will be given IMMENSE opportunity from the West to quadruple it's economy.

India will get more benefits from the West than from Russia.

Pakistan WILL NOT procure any AIR FORCE aircrafts from Russia instead it will have more closer ties with China and Pakistan will increase the capabilities of its defence industry..

Russia and China will have a greater influence on Pakistan than the West as of today.

These are few points...

Please do not yak as it is my point of view. I am not saying it will happen instead it is in the Process to happen...

There is a difference between you and me. I state facts which are 80 percent true..I have inside informations so I don't have any newspaper **** link to share so if you don't want to believe than it will not certainly hurt me..

and I know recently nuclear deals have been signed between Indian and Russia so don't think that I am unaware of those deals..

Once again, India will get tons of BENEFITS from the west in coming years than from Russia...there will some sort of land mark deal between you guys and the West down the road..maybe 5 years at the latest which will help your economy like never before..and you will choose that..
India will have a greater influence in African countries in coming years..which will affect China and other countries..

Consider yourself in West block down the road

You read and decide

No offence and no yaks

Calm down.