Rush Doshi: Head of China policy at NSC

[nahtanbob]

Has the US done that for Russian cargo/exports on Indian ships? Or other nation for that matter? I’m not taking about arms transshipment, but food, fuel, and other raw materials for civilian use and production; to sustain the lives of Chinese civilians. If the US blocks “Chinese Cargo” going to Pakistani ports, then the ships transporting African goods to Pakistani Ports will fly Pakistanis or some other neutral nation’s flag. Perhaps a Turkish shipping company could transport goods back and forth between Djibouti and Karachi. Same would apply for “Pakistani Goods” going to Africa from a Pakistani Port. Final product assemble can take place in Pakistan and be label a product of Pakistan. Standard business practice. It would be where the deep water port of Gwadar with potential capacity to handle so many TEUs of cargo annually can prosper.

If Pakistan’s Achilles heel was India, that would have been played long ago, say for instance when the Soviets were in Afghanistan. The Chinese wouldn’t support India. If you think Chinese think Pakistan is a peer competitor with China (which no else would claim) then obviously India would be considered a potential peer competitor for China. China can not afford to let India build up against it. China has always viewed Indians as the enforcers of western colonialism. That’s not just a view of what the CCP thinks but Chinese intellectuals and officials from the time of the opium wars and the sacking of Beijing by the west with the use of Indian troops. Just watch the following video from an Indian academic that has studied the subject.

Has USA blockaded Russian ships outside of Cuban missile crisis ? In the event of a showdown USA will block any cargo suspected to head for China. If there is collateral damage to cargo bound for Pakistani ports what is Pakistan going to do ? If there is showdown between USA and China the safety of Chinese cargo bound for Pakistani ports is the last thing on the minds of Pakistani leaders. They have already made it clear that they are "neutral" in the dispute between USA and China.

Why would India be thrilled to have the Soviets or (that matter) America in Afghanistan ?

It is irrelevant what China thinks of India. Can they attack India and expect USA not to intervene ? The Ukraine war settles a lot things. If Ukraine can beat the crap of Russian army with America's support, in theory USA can help India do the same to any Chinese attack. For that matter they can help India beat back combined Pakistani-Chinese attack. This is assuming three nuclear powers are foolish to start a war among themselves

All it took was one Quad meeting with India cheerleading to get the Pakistani army to feign neutrality in the US-China dispute. The truth is that Pakistan is far behind India and cannot afford all out American support for India. You correctly make the case for large scale Chinese support for Pakistan to build Pakistan as a counter-weight to India. Of course it is not clear how India will perceive such Chinese support for Pakistan. India might react by getting closer to USA. China is calculating how that will pan out.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

You seem to value ethnicity rather highly. What is its value? British and French, are of same ethnicity, fought Hundred Year Wars. British and Germans ("Anglo-Saxons") nearly destroyed each other, twice, in less than 40 years. U.S. and U.S.S.R, almost same "ethnicity" fought a Cold War for half-a-century and are still not very friendly. Most Arabs are fighting among themselves in the Middle-East for as long as I know. In USA, Unionists defeated Confederates, of same ethnicity, to free African-Americans, completely different ethnicity, from bondage. I posit that ethnicity is about as valuable as the fashion of your clothing.

British and French are different ethnicities. Americans and Soviets aren't the same ethnicity, the latter weren't even Western, they are mostly Eastern Slavs and Central Asians, whereas America was founded by Anglos or British. Arabs have states according to their ancient civilization identities; although they fight wars they are under one umbrella group called Arab League.

 

[FuturePAF]

British and French are different ethnicities. Americans and Soviets aren't the same ethnicity, the latter weren't even Western, they are mostly Eastern Slavs and Central Asians, whereas America was founded by Anglos or British. Arabs have states according to their ancient civilization identities; although they fight wars they are under one umbrella group called Arab League.

If ethnicity was the overwhelming uniting factor in the decision of peoples, we would have seen a successful movement for West Bengal to unify with Bangladesh. Religion is part of it, but there are other factors that if taken in its totality have made the people’s of Bangladesh and West Bengal different and distinct.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

If ethnicity was the overwhelming uniting factor in the decision of peoples, we would have seen a successful movement for West Bengal to unify with Bangladesh. Religion is part of it, but there are other factors that if taken in its totality have made the people’s of Bangladesh and West Bengal different and distinct.

Bangladeshis aren't hostile to India and Indians like Pakistanis are. They have normal relations with India. Also, they don't have hostility toward West Bengali culture or toward Hindus. They are very proud of Tagore, for example. Their contention is that West Bengalis aren't proud enough Bengali.

 

[TheSolution]

So, in other words, Pakistani national identity was founded based on religious demographics.

How many times are you going to repeat yourself?

Yes, it was. We didn't, and still don't, want to be part of a Hindu majority country. As I explained, the ideal society envisioned for each group is vastly different, especially with how we dictate our social values.

Now stop derailing the thread.

 

[renhai]

View attachment 890909

View attachment 890910

Smart as a Whip. Speaks and writes Mandarin. The Administration is lucky to have him.

The long game is on this years best seller list and is essential reading for anyone who wants to comprehend contemporary China and the vaulting ambition of its autocratic leadership.

Any arrangement that makes Pakistan an ally of China at the expense of India is bad for the Chinese. China is in the business of becoming a hyper-power. A simple question for China is whether a hostile India helps or hinders them in the purpose. China is still trying to figure out things.

For now. The Chinese people only recognize that "India is the only superpower in the world, the only superpower in the solar system, the only superpower in the galaxy, and the only superpower in the known universe".

You can ask any Chinese you meet. "You admit India is a superpower"? believe me. They will tell you "yes" without hesitation!

I think Indians may have some misunderstandings... All of us in China have always supported India to become a superpower.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

How many times are you going to repeat yourself?

Yes, it was. We didn't, and still don't, want to be part of a Hindu majority country. As I explained, the ideal society envisioned for each group is vastly different, especially with how we dictate our social values.

Now stop derailing the thread.

You do not have an independent identity. Two-nation theory. Two-nation theory with whom, China?

 

[TheSolution]

You do not have an independent identity. Two-nation theory. Two-nation theory with whom, China?

British India --> Two nations; Pakistan - India.

Now stop derailing the thread, you seem incredibly uncomfortable about your situation in India hence you feel the need to bring this up in every thread.

Is this a coping mechanism to console yourself?

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

British India --> Two nations; Pakistan - India.

Now stop derailing the thread, you seem incredibly uncomfortable about your situation in India hence bring this up in every thread.

Is this a coping mechanism to console yourself?

Please stop it. Two nation theory is an ideology and not an independent identity. This is your problem, not mine.

Two-nation theory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

'The two-nation theory is an ideology of religious nationalism that influenced the decolonisation of the British Raj in South Asia. According to this ideology, Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus are two separate nations'

 

[TheSolution]

Please stop it. Two nation theory is an ideology and not an independent identity. This is your problem, not mine.

Two-nation theory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

'The two-nation theory is an ideology of religious nationalism that influenced the decolonisation of the British Raj in South Asia. According to this ideology, Indian Muslims and Indian Hindus are two separate nations'

Do you struggle to comprehend English?

You asked me "with whom" and I gave you the answer of British India becoming two nations, Pakistan and India.

It's not at all a problem for us, we are happy here in Pakistan and would make the same choice again, it's you who wants to claim it is a problem and derail *every* thread.

You are clearly uncomfortable about your situation in India as a Muslim, hence feel the need to prove yourself in every thread to feel validated. We don't.

Enjoy your increasingly radical Hindu India which continues to prove our point.

 

[Abid123]

The fact remains, strong allies provide strength to the benefactor nation in the long term. Pakistan is expected to have a population of at least 400 million by the time it stabilises, that will be a massive market and a strong partner for any friendly nation.

Pakistan will have a population of 400 million by 2050. Lets hope Pakistan can stabilize much earlier than that.

Main focus should be on economic development and education for the next 3 decades. The goal should be that by the middle of this century Pakistan should be a great power. With 400 million people that is a realistic goal.

 

[epebble]

British and French are different ethnicities. Americans and Soviets aren't the same ethnicity, the latter weren't even Western, they are mostly Eastern Slavs and Central Asians, whereas America was founded by Anglos or British. Arabs have states according to their ancient civilization identities; although they fight wars they are under one umbrella group called Arab League.

You still did not tell what is the value of ethnicity? My contention is that there is no value, especially so in 21st century where people are moving more, communicating more, like to live in virtual communities rather than real communities. In another century or so, people may be so homogenous that there is no ethnicity to talk of.

 

[nahtanbob]

For now. The Chinese people only recognize that "India is the only superpower in the world, the only superpower in the solar system, the only superpower in the galaxy, and the only superpower in the known universe".

You can ask any Chinese you meet. "You admit India is a superpower"? believe me. They will tell you "yes" without hesitation!

I think Indians may have some misunderstandings... All of us in China have always supported India to become a superpower.

China cares for Chinese. Nothing wrong in that

Pakistan will have a population of 400 million by 2050. Lets hope Pakistan can stabilize much earlier than that.

Main focus should be on economic development and education for the next 3 decades. The goal should be that by the middle of this century Pakistan should be a great power. With 400 million people that is a realistic goal.

It is okay to be optimistic

You are bankrupt with 200 million. Why would it be any better with 400 million ? Why stop with 400 million ? It is like you magically expect things to stabilize at 400 million.

 

[renhai]

China cares for Chinese. Nothing wrong in that



It is okay to be optimistic

You are bankrupt with 200 million. Why would it be any better with 400 million ? Why stop with 400 million ? It is like you magically expect things to stabilize at 400 million.

of course. The Chinese care about China. So I hope Indian friends don't misunderstand. We have always supported India to become a superpower.

 

[nahtanbob]

of course. The Chinese care about China. So I hope Indian friends don't misunderstand. We have always supported India to become a superpower.

Sorry. China or Chinese do not care about anyone else. that is fine with me.