Rush Doshi: Head of China policy at NSC

[FuturePAF]

Without American help Europe, Japan and South Korea would still be backwaters or at most upper middle income countries, hardly able to offer any support to the Americans in the cold war against the Soviets.
Without European money, technology and comprehensive help based on effective partnerships Spain, Southern Europe and certainly Eastern Europe would still be dirt poor, and certainly not in a position to stand up to Russia in the East.

The fact remains, strong allies provide strength to the benefactor nation in the long term. Pakistan is expected to have a population of at least 400 million by the time it stabilises, that will be a massive market and a strong partner for any friendly nation.



Busy peddling your fantasies, well done, keep up the good work.



Would you care to expand on your two nation wisdom, making statements is one thing but presenting rational discussion is something else.
Let's see what's in that beautiful mind of yours.

Precisely, South Korea would have withered on the vine if it had not been for decades of American aid. North Korea had the bulk of the industry and mineral resources, but with 2-3 decades of careful aid and development assistance from the US, Korea has become a strong ally of the US, able to assist beyond what was invested into it.

 

[Turingsage]

Pakistanis endlessly trying to prove that the Chinese are some permanent loyal ally.
Anyone who lived through the sixties know how they LOVED the US and before that UK.
In the seventies and later it was the Arabs who would ride up on their horses to rescue Pakistan.
Under Imran briefly it was the Turks who were the font of all that is good. It soured after the Turkish economy tanked and Turks all over got to loath Pakistani illegal immigrants.
GOOD LUCK is all I can say

 

[epebble]

And with the BJP’s remaking of India into what seemly a majority of Indians want proved Jinnah correct. Btw, at the time of partition the ratio of Hindus to Muslims what what constituted British controlled India was 3:1, while 75 years later it is 2:1. In another 75 years, if demographic trends continue, it will be nearly 1:1.

But that is getting off topic. Let’s return back to why it is in China’s interest to help Pakistan with focused aid.

Jinnah makes a persuasive argument. With the benefit of hindsight, nobody can say now that he was wrong in 1947. My guess is overwhelming number of Indians agree with his argument today, even if those in 1947 might have had disagreements.

 

[FuturePAF]

So, in other words, Pakistani national identity was founded based on religious demographics, and you don't see Punjabis on the other side as your countrymen, even though you have been ruled by Sikh Punjabis in history. The split in identity happened after British rule.

Identity on faith before provincialism. A land in which to live out our creed and be the nation, which founded upon Islam as a guiding light, be the best true expression of what a Islamic Republic can be. That fact it has taken nearly 70 years for a party that appeals to people across all of Pakistan does not undermine Pakistan but demonstrates how many internal issues held the nation back from being what Jinnah wanted it to be.

India had Nehru for nearly 20 years. Had Pakistan had Jinnah for nearly as long, we can’t imagine what could have been.

 

[SaadH]

So, in other words, Pakistani national identity was founded based on religious demographics, and you don't see Punjabis on the other side as your countrymen, even though you have been ruled by Sikh Punjabis in history. The split in identity happened after British rule.

Contemporary Punjabi nationalist may disagree, but that division occurred during the Sikh rule when they persecuted of Muslim Punjabis and carried out pogroms resulting in the killing of hundreds and thousands of Punjabi Muslims. The division became order of magnitude more acute post partition where marauding Sikh mobs massacred Muslims of all ethnicities, in particular Punjabi Muslims to the tune of 1 million dead.

 

[epebble]

So, in other words, Pakistani national identity was founded based on religious demographics, and you don't see Punjabis on the other side as your countrymen, even though you have been ruled by Sikh Punjabis in history. The split in identity happened after British rule.

I am not sure I follow your logic. Many ancient empires broke down with time. Was it wrong? There is no more Roman empire that had most of Western Europe, No Austro-Hungarian empire, No Ottoman empire. More recently, Balkans separated (Yugoslavia), USSR separated, (Republic of) Ireland separated from Britain, Scotland has a devolved government. Quebec may separate if they want. Czech Republic and Slovakia separated. Nation States don't have to remain constant forever. If the purpose is not served, they should be willing to change.

 

[FuturePAF]

Jinnah makes a persuasive argument. With the benefit of hindsight, nobody can say now that he was wrong in 1947. My guess is overwhelming number of Indians agree with his argument today, even if those in 1947 might have had disagreements.

The majority of Indians too are living out the nation that they always want. I hope they put the Hindu idols on their money as some proposed, and remove Gandhi, because for many he was not who they idolized. At least it will openly be the “Hindustan” it has wanted to be, and that Pakistan always recognized it as.

 

[Turingsage]

I hope they put the Hindu idols on their money as some proposed, and remove Gandhi, because for many he was not who they idolized

Do not presume to tell a billion people who to idolise and who not to.
Gandhi will always remain the father of the nation.
A man recognised by nearly all countries as a singularly great leader of the last centaury, honoured in many many countries. throughout the world.

 

[FuturePAF]

Do not presume to tell a billion people who to idolise and who not to.
Gandhi will always remain the father of the nation.
A man recognised by nearly all countries as a singularly great leader of the last centaury, honoured in many many countries. throughout the world.

And yet revered less and less so in action and word by the day by said billion people. As for the money, I’m just observing what your politician presume your “130 crore” want. And not just the billion or so Hindus, but all 130 crore.

As for “fantasies”, it is not a sport only on this side of the border. So believe what you wish, and leave me to believe what I wish as well. Only time will tell what comes to pass.

Good night to you sir.

Hard work doesn't pay without God's blessings, 130 crore Indians want pictures of Lakshmi, Ganesh on currency: Kejriwal

Read more about Hard work doesn't pay without God's blessings, 130 crore Indians want pictures of Lakshmi, Ganesh on currency: Kejriwal on Devdiscourse.

www.devdiscourse.com

 

[epebble]

And yet revered less and less so in action and word by the day by said billion people. As for the money, I’m just observing what your politician presume your “130 crore” want. And not just the billion or so Hindus, but all 130 crore.

As for “fantasies”, it is not a sport only on this side of the border. So believe what you wish, and leave me to believe what I wish as well. Only time will tell what comes to pass.

Good night to you sir.

Hard work doesn't pay without God's blessings, 130 crore Indians want pictures of Lakshmi, Ganesh on currency: Kejriwal

Read more about Hard work doesn't pay without God's blessings, 130 crore Indians want pictures of Lakshmi, Ganesh on currency: Kejriwal on Devdiscourse.

www.devdiscourse.com

Even more interesting is where that minister got that idea from: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indonesia_1998_20000r_o.jpg

 

[FuturePAF]

Even more interesting is where that minister got that idea from: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indonesia_1998_20000r_o.jpg

And if Indonesia had that on their money, they have discontinued it, perhaps to move away from such symbols.

Btw, in approximately 15 years or so it is estimated Pakistan will surpass Indonesia for the most populous Muslim Majority country. It’s prominence or lack there of (depending on how it deals with its current political issues) will see it seize its moment or continue to languish onwards.

 

[epebble]

And if Indonesia had that on their money, they have discontinued it, perhaps to move away from such symbols.

Btw, in approximately 15 years or so it is estimated Pakistan will surpass Indonesia for the most populous Muslim Majority country. It’s prominence or lack there of (depending on how it deals with its current political issues) will see it seize its moment or continue to languish onwards.

BTW, our Dollar bill has a Seeing Eye of God. Not that anyone notices it.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Contemporary Punjabi nationalist may disagree, but that division occurred during the Sikh rule when they persecuted of Muslim Punjabis and carried out pogroms resulting in the killing of hundreds and thousands of Punjabi Muslims. The division became order of magnitude more acute post partition where marauding Sikh mobs massacred Muslims of all ethnicities, in particular Punjabi Muslims to the tune of 1 million dead.

Same ethnicities can have civil wars over religion, but they don't become different ethnicities because of religion. Lebanon had 15 years of brutal civil war among Christians and Muslims, Sunnis and Shias, yet they regard themselves Lebanese. Anyway, Pakistan separated and became an independent country, but then it adopted a policy of hostility toward India and Indians from the start. This does not make sense.

 

[epebble]

Same ethnicities can have civil wars over religion, but they don't become different ethnicities because of religion. Lebanon had 15 years of brutal civil war among Christians and Muslims, Sunnis and Shias, yet they regard themselves Lebanese. Anyway, Pakistan separated and became an independent country, but then it adopted a policy of hostility toward India and Indians from the start. This does not make sense.

You seem to value ethnicity rather highly. What is its value? British and French, are of same ethnicity, fought Hundred Year Wars. British and Germans ("Anglo-Saxons") nearly destroyed each other, twice, in less than 40 years. U.S. and U.S.S.R, almost same "ethnicity" fought a Cold War for half-a-century and are still not very friendly. Most Arabs are fighting among themselves in the Middle-East for as long as I know. In USA, Unionists defeated Confederates, of same ethnicity, to free African-Americans, completely different ethnicity, from bondage. I posit that ethnicity is about as valuable as the fashion of your clothing.

 

[crankthatskunk]

You sound like a used car salesman to me. At the end of the day it is $10 billion for a 600 mile legacy railway track line. The $$$ do not add up. I assume you want the money to be repaid

What do I care ? I am not paying for it

Haha, Get the facts check, annoucing a project doesn't mean it would get started or finished.
Same way Saudi Arabia annouced billions of dollars investment in a refinery, no work or investment yet. Promises are what it says on the tin, promises.