RSS: No need for secularism in India; colour of flag should be turned saffron as tricolour injects c

[VCheng]

One of the times I sorely miss a genuflecting smiley.

Just so you know, its what I'm doing in front of my laptop as I type this out.

And I am still treading on eggshells with a warning and a thread ban in the last few days by Mullah Naraz and the Merry Company of Mods.

Back to the topic, lest I get another sanction, is there a prescribed way in the Indian Constitution if it ever wanted to change its flag?

 

[vsdoc]

And I am still treading on eggshells with a warning and a thread ban in the last few days by Mullah Naraz and the Merry Company of Mods.

Back to the topic, lest I get another sanction, is there a prescribed way in the Indian Constitution if it ever wanted to change its flag?

Mullah Naraz ?

Why are you not a mod yet? Meet up with Webby and Oscar and do some good ol' American lobbying.

No idea about the flag man.

Over my dead body.

 

[VCheng]

Mullah Naraz ?

Why are you not a mod yet? Meet up with Webby and Oscar and do some good ol' American lobbying.

No idea about the flag man.

Over my dead body.

Who said "You can't handle the truth!" in a movie? No amount of lobbying will take care of that.

Doesn't the Indian Constitution prescribe a process for conduction a national referendum on matters of great importance?

 

[vsdoc]

Who said "You can't handle the truth!" in a movie? No amount of lobbying will take care of that.

Doesn't the Indian Constitution prescribe a process for conduction a national referendum on matters of great importance?

I just wish they'd let all the old-school trouble makers back.

What a lovely place this would be again ....

Stop oggling my flag man. Count the stars on yours and check out if some/a few have not fallen off in the interim .....

 

[VCheng]

I just wish they'd let all the old-school trouble makers back.

What a lovely place this would be again ....

Stop oggling my flag man. Count the stars on yours and check out if some/a few have not fallen off in the interim .....

Only the cheap Made-in-China flags have that problem of stars falling off

I have no problem with your flag. I am just curious whether there is a due process for changing it, if the nation ever wants it.

 

[vsdoc]

Only the cheap Made-in-China flags have that problem of stars falling off

All the greater concern.

Since most everything American starts off life Chinese.

 

[VCheng]

All the greater concern.

Since most everything American starts off life Chinese.

You are correct, Sir:

Back to the topic, do you get Made-in-China Indian flags there?

 

[vsdoc]

Back to the topic, do you get Made-in-China Indian flags there?

We get Made in China Ganpatis.

With race-incongruent intercanthal folds.

Does that count?

 

[skyisthelimit]

That is our land. Lucknow is our land as is Kashmir. Our family does not count Lucknow as outside Pakistan. This is why we stayed on. The reality is India always treated us despicably and we have no reason to be loyal to said country.

It is not your land. It was your forefathers decision to change religion and become Muslims. You cannot start claiming lands saying we are Muslims, need separate family laws, need separate Shariah Laws. The nation cannot give particular benefits to particular religion or caste or any such community. Now before you preach, tell something about what is happening to Ahmadis, Hindus, Parsis in your nation. Does that mean Hindus, Ahmadis and Parsis should start fighting and talk of breaking Pakistan? Does that mean Indians should say all Hindus in South Asia and East Asia is INDIA and should encourage them to be with India. See the mirror brother.

To be frank, all Muslims in south Asia think of themselves and lineage of Arabs. But reality is that even the Arab Muslims (birthplace of Muslim religion) do not treat Asian Muslims as same compatriots. They just use Asian and African Muslims to increase the count and create propaganda.

"Media is the main propaganda machine of today. Governments, Armies and whole nation can be built on propaganda and destroyed too". This is the sad reality under the name of democracy and free laws. Whole media cannot digest the fact that someone other than CON-gress can form a government. Almost all media houses are owned by CON-g leaders, so twisting of news, blogs will be the NORM and people who only depend on media for information are surely to be misguided.

regards

 

[haviZsultan]

Thanks for marking me. I have a little different views and I will go point wise:
1. shared culture- we indeed share culture with mohajirs of pakistan because we were same people and i believe we still are same people. But do mohajirs of pakistan support India? if not, then how do they expect indians to support pakistan specially when they themselves are struggling for an identity in pakistan? Those muslims who supported pakistan already migrated to pakistan from 1947 until 1965.

2. same history- agree. but not all muslims voted for AIML, there were muslims in congress like my forefathers. voting in India is still done on caste lines so it was very natural for muslims to go with Muslim League. majority of the muslims were illiterate to understand the meaning of partition and pakistan. Thats why when it came to moving to pakistan, even the supporters of AIML changed their mind. They chose India over migration. They chose to live in minority over migration.

Yet the bond we shared remained. I don't know the reasons but perhaps it is fear of even greater persecution that leads muslims left in Indian occupied regions to deny or gloss over the fact that they were with us voting for the muslim league and admit the fact that we were all one. Jinnahs muslim league. I don't know why it is so hard to admit this common history and the solid fact that some live in Lucknow but solidly support Pakistan. Lets not lie here. I have relatives like that in Lucknow and Hyderabadis too are chafing since operation Polo.

Those who voted for congress were a miniscule minority-so small that it barely had any power and were seen as traitors at that time.

The reason we did not move was because 1) We did not have the means. We could not move. This was the main reason yet we
2) This is muhajirs fault but they did not invite them to Karachi nor did they treat them as fellow Pakistanis.
3) Muhajirs became engaged in vicious ethnic politics. The basis of Pakistan as an Islamic super state fell at that moment. When my relatives in Karachi and other parts started asking for extra rights.

Despite all this inter marriages were common-especially women from Lucknow went to our controlled territory.

Anyway thats why my grandfather and mother stayed. A combination of those reasons.

3. same ideology? i will put a question mark here. Entire muslim world is divided. Ummah looks good on paper but its not a reality. if it had any meaning, bangladesh would still be called east pakistan.
4. common relations - its negligible now. we find more relatives in US and UK than in pakistan. Our blood relations in pakistan have chosen to cut off ties for whatever reasons.

The fall of Bangladesh was another blow to the support we received from muslims left in Indian occupied Lucknow. But it still does not change the fact that many continued to see Pakistan as a safe haven-the only safe haven for muslims. Thats how me and our family view it.

I strongly disagree that we have cut contacts. We talk to our family in Lucknow constantly. It may be different with some other families though.

Coming to where to escape when we will be massacred in India??? Please tell me where the syrians, yemenis and iraqis are going in the arab world? where the shias, ahmedis, christians and hindus are going in pakistan? Where are rohingyas going and where have bihari muslims gone? We are much safer and content in India than many muslim nations.

Yet there is talk of independence and merger with Pakistan

I am not denying the conflict as some vested interests are there in all communities and its more about politics than religion.

I respectfully disagree. Banning cow slaughter and killing those who practice it is more about imposing 'Hindutva ideals and ruling muslims by fear. The refusal to raise the question of their own rights by muslims left there and the same rights being raised by those who migrated-AKA Pakistanis should make you understand that this land is not an enemy as the Indians (Hindutvas) want you to think but an ally.

Unless muslims left there abandon their combative attitude to Pakistan which they maintain just to please the Hindus the rights situation for muslims will grow worse. The fact is I am and happily call myself Pakistani. But it is not our job to defend muslims left in there. It is your job. Yet despite our support some muslims left in Lucknow go the Indian way. That is unfortunate as our support is an asset, if advocated by muslims left there a way to improve your rights situation.

 

[skyisthelimit]

The allegation that money from Hindu temples is being taken and being spent on muslim mosques is not only wrong, but also a deliberate attempt to paint a picture of Hindus as an oppressed majority in their own land. I still have to find a case where a majority is oppressed by a minuscule minority. The allegation is not only untrue but also supported by Hindutva fanatics of all types. Their agenda is to prove muslims have special rights to take what limited rights they already have. By this they want to establish a Hindu rashtra in our own land. No muslim would allow that. Hindus want to be our brothers and respect us-fine. Oppress us-no

It maybe agenda. But they are not wrong either. Do you know how much Indian government spends (subsidy in travel and other things) on Muslims every year on the Haj pilgrimage? Now, is it nation's government duty to do such things? Government duty is not be involved and support in such activities. Muslim mosques are recognized, local priests are given salaries to teach Muslim children. But, when government wants to help them in improving syllabus of madrasas kids such as teach science, maths, etc. All hell breaks lose. It is sad reality that Madrasa children are not competitive enough to do jobs outside Madrasas. In India, you talk or say something different, you are immediately labelled anti-Muslim....similar situation as anti-Jews in America.

Mosque not allowed in certain location, Muslims are victim. There is fasting season in Hindus or other religion, meat ban 1 week, Muslims are victims. Talk about family planning, Muslims are victims. Talk about teaching science, maths at advanced levels, Muslims are victims. Talk about educating women and giving them some rights, so Muslim women are at equal par with others, Muslims are victims. So, at end of the day, Muslims are victims and oppressed in everything and Majorities are communal and blah blah.

We are in 21st century, All agree that when Prophet made some rules they had some reasons. But, that does not mean we should stick to those rules and modify them a bit to suit today's time and needs. They want jeans, tshirts, bikes, smart phones, computers, notebooks, internet. But when it comes to changing something for the benefit of society and harmony...
Hell breaks lose, we are victims, you are changing forcefully, you are oppressing us and blah blah.

If RSS or BJP says against Muslims, it hurts them. When one of the OWAISI says killing Hindus and making us a Muslim nation, is that peaceful?

Before Muslims boastfully teach others about harmony, cooperation and living peacefully, such Muslims should show us how many Muslim nations allow their minorities to live peacefully and extend all kind of cooperation and rights to their minorities/other religions?

Lucknow will go to Pakistan one day. You can keep shooting your mouth at Pakistan but it won't change the fact that it is the only hope for sub continent muslims and possibly muslims around the world.

Sounds same story like "Kashmir is ours since 1947". As per your logic, you should invite Arabs to rule and lead Pakistan.

If you ask me now, Why others have problems with Muslims, this is exactly the same reason... Just because that city might have majority Muslims does not mean it will go or should go or BELONGS to Pakistan. Muslims staying in particular geographical location of India or other nation with Pakistan or belonging to Pakistan is completely wrong idea. Such talks increase more insecurity in other people.

But then, if someone opposes to that, Muslims are victims or Muslims are oppressed, Isn't that true now?

so one incident = total atrocities against Dalits... i leave it to your wisdom. . lolz

Do you even know how many Dalits accepted Christianity and practice Christanity. But still keep SC/ST papers for namesake to get reservation incentives.

Isn't that an abuse of so called secularism laws?

Talking this from personal experience of my college friends, who ended up getting admission in top engineering colleges with 55% in HSC, where as myself with 85% settled for a small unknown college.

The discussion is about giving equal rights and supporting only economically weaker sections. Be it Hindus, Dalits or Muslims.

 

[danger007]

It maybe agenda. But they are not wrong either. Do you know how much Indian government spends (subsidy in travel and other things) on Muslims every year on the Haj pilgrimage? Now, is it nation's government duty to do such things? Government duty is not be involved and support in such activities. Muslim mosques are recognized, local priests are given salaries to teach Muslim children. But, when government wants to help them in improving syllabus of madrasas kids such as teach science, maths, etc. All hell breaks lose. It is sad reality that Madrasa children are not competitive enough to do jobs outside Madrasas. In India, you talk or say something different, you are immediately labelled anti-Muslim....similar situation as anti-Jews in America.

Mosque not allowed in certain location, Muslims are victim. There is fasting season in Hindus or other religion, meat ban 1 week, Muslims are victims. Talk about family planning, Muslims are victims. Talk about teaching science, maths at advanced levels, Muslims are victims. Talk about educating women and giving them some rights, so Muslim women are at equal par with others, Muslims are victims. So, at end of the day, Muslims are victims and oppressed in everything and Majorities are communal and blah blah.

We are in 21st century, All agree that when Prophet made some rules they had some reasons. But, that does not mean we should stick to those rules and modify them a bit to suit today's time and needs. They want jeans, tshirts, bikes, smart phones, computers, notebooks, internet. But when it comes to changing something for the benefit of society and harmony...
Hell breaks lose, we are victims, you are changing forcefully, you are oppressing us and blah blah.

If RSS or BJP says against Muslims, it hurts them. When one of the OWAISI says killing Hindus and making us a Muslim nation, is that peaceful?

Before Muslims boastfully teach others about harmony, cooperation and living peacefully, such Muslims should show us how many Muslim nations allow their minorities to live peacefully and extend all kind of cooperation and rights to their minorities/other religions?



Sounds same story like "Kashmir is ours since 1947". As per your logic, you should invite Arabs to rule and lead Pakistan.

If you ask me now, Why others have problems with Muslims, this is exactly the same reason... Just because that city might have majority Muslims does not mean it will go or should go or BELONGS to Pakistan. Muslims staying in particular geographical location of India or other nation with Pakistan or belonging to Pakistan is completely wrong idea. Such talks increase more insecurity in other people.

But then, if someone opposes to that, Muslims are victims or Muslims are oppressed, Isn't that true now?



Do you even know how many Dalits accepted Christianity and practice Christanity. But still keep SC/ST papers for namesake to get reservation incentives.

Isn't that an abuse of so called secularism laws?

Talking this from personal experience of my college friends, who ended up getting admission in top engineering colleges with 55% in HSC, where as myself with 85% settled for a small unknown college.

The discussion is about giving equal rights and supporting only economically weaker sections. Be it Hindus, Dalits or Muslims.

please kindly get facts first.... you just picking one or two incidents to blame them... when they can't afford high standard education. . their percentage may vary... Reservations are provided because of their social, economic backwardness. .. they are not sstealing your jobs or something else... depending upon their population reservations provided... it's not that those who got 55% in SC will get seat or job... those who get better score within Sc/ST will get.... usually when general category cut off marks will be 60% then the SC cut off will be 55%...

 

[danger007]

@haviZsultan ... so now luknow is disputed territory between your family and India ???

 

[JohnyD]

Chadi gang is in news just bcoz of Modi and its not vice versa as RSS might have been believing since BJP came to power at center! People of India have no interest in RSS and not voted for RSS..!!.. moment we see Modi is following RSS agenda and have no interest in working for people of India (irrespective of their case and religion), Congress will be back to power! ..BJP in state like Maharashtra have already done enough damage by banning bull's meat along with Cow, then banning all meats to please Jains and also talking about complete ban on liquor..BJP is emerging as Taliban or Saudis under RSS influence which is not good for the party and good leader like Modi is going to suffer becoz of that!

 

[dadeechi]

On the quoted post, I support a uniform civil code. As to the matter of religion, yes, as long as the government is indifferent to religion, I am fine with it. I am not fine with idiots suggesting that plastic surgery was practised in ancient India, which is why we have the legend of Ganesh, and more mind-numbing stupidity about our ancient aircraft designing, building and operating skills.

What does government being indifferent to religion mean?