RSS: No need for secularism in India; colour of flag should be turned saffron as tricolour injects c

[Spectre]

are you sure about what you said????? Dalits will be nothing without those privileges... Even with SC ST atrocities act Dalits facing lot troubles than you see.... without Reservations dalits there will be no progress...

Yes I am sure - but my surety comes from anecdotal experiences not statistically sound studies. However I believe affirmative action if it should exist then the parameters should be changed to economical one rather than caste or community this way all those who are really impoverished and are at the bottom of our pyramid would benefit.

Affirmative action as it exists only reinforces the caste based identities and further encourages vote bank politics in addition to discontent among other castes - as some among the other castes or communities who do deserve affirmative action - do not get it.

Why should a poor Brahmin who barely makes 40 rs a day not get affirmative action? When he sees a dalit driving a mercedes what would he feel other than discontent?

 

[danger007]

Despite its constitutional abolition in 1950, the practice of "untouchability"-the imposition of social disabilities on persons by reason of birth into a particular caste- remains very much a part of rural India. Representing over one-sixth of India's population-or some 160 million people-Dalits endure near complete social ostracization. "Untouchables" may not cross the line dividing their part of the village from that occupied by higher castes. They may not use the same wells, visit the same temples, or drink from the same cups in tea stalls. Dalit children are frequently made to sit at the back of classrooms. In what has been called India's "hidden apartheid," entire villages in many Indian states remain completely segregated by caste.





Every 18 minutes:

A crime is committed against a Dalit

Every day:

* 3 Dalit women are raped

* 2 Dalits are murdered & 2 Dalits Houses are burnt in India

* 11 Dalits are beaten

Every week:

* 13 Dalits are murdered

* 5 Dalits home or possessions are burnt

* 6 Dalits are kidnapped or abducted

Social and Economic condition of Dalits:

* 37 percent of Dalits living below poverty in India

* More than half (54%) of their children are undernourished in India

* 83 per 1000 live birth children born in Dalit community are probability of dying before the first birthday

* 45 percent of Dalits do not know read and write in India

* Dalits women burden double discrimination (gender and caste) in India

* Only 27 percent of Dalits women give institutional deliveries in India

* About one third of Dalit households do not have basic facilities

* Public health workers refused to visit Dalit homes in 33% of villages

* Dalits were prevented from entering police station in 27.6% of villages

* Dalit children had to sit separately while eating in 37.8% of Govt. schools

* Dalits didn’t get mail delivered to their homes in 23.5% of villages

* Dalits were denied access to water sources in 48.4% of villages because of segregation & untouchabilty practices

* Half of India’s Dalit children are undernourished, 21% are severely underweight & 12% DIE before their 5th birthday

* Literacy rates for Dalit women are as low as 37.8% In Rural India

Status of Prevention of Atrocities Act:

* The conviction rate under SC/ST Prevention of Atrocities Act is 15.71% and pendency is as high as 85.37%. This when the Act has strict provisions aimed as a deterrent. By contrast, conviction rate under IPC is over 40%

On actual crime committed against Dalits

“Even the reports prepared by the Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment and placed before Parliament contain merely factual information received from States about registration and disposal of cases; various administrative arrangements made for the function of the Act and funds spent, without any meaningful analysis of the performance of the States which could form the basis for making corrective interventions.” “Under-reporting of Atrocities Act cases is a very common phenomenon and therefore the decline in the number of registered cases does not provide a true picture of the incidence of atrocities.”

“A large number of cases which deserve to be registered under Protection of Civil Rights Act or the SCs & STs (Prevention of Atrocities) Act are not actually registered under these Acts, either due to ignorance of law or under pressure from the interested parties. Investigations in even those limited number of cases is often earned out in a slipshod manner and with considerable delay.”

Source: National Human Rights Commission Report on the Prevention and Atrocities against Scheduled Castes

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes I am sure - but my surely comes from anecdotal experiences not statistically sound studies. However I believe affirmative action if it should exist then the parameters should be changed to economical one rather than caste or community this way all those who are really impoverished and are at the bottom of our pyramid would benefit.

Affirmative action as it exists only reinforces the caste based identities and further encourages vote bank politics in addition to discontent among other castes - as some among the other castes or communities who do deserve affirmative action - do not get it.

Why should a poor Brahmin who barely makes 40 rs a day not get affirmative action? When he sees a dalit driving a mercedes what would he feel other than discontent?

Two points:

So you negative rated me for your incompetency in understanding the sarcasm?

And you are feeling free to call me a school boy with low wit right?

What if I rip you apart in your own language? I suggest you to correct yourself.

You are free to do what you feel is right. And you will face the consequences.

 

[danger007]

I have, and you are trolling.




I really don't agree that these affirmative actions should be withheld.

I provided some data regarding it... I really don't like to debate such issues here... but i provided some... and i experienced or Seen some... so i know what am talking about...

 

[Spectre]

I provided some data regarding it... I really don't like to debate such issues here... but i provided some... and i experienced or Seen some... so i know what am talking about...

I concur with you my friend - current system despite having close to 7 decades of implementation is not working - maybe we should tinker with it?

 

[Tiger Genie]

Indian Hindus, Kindly tell me how to contact RSS. Does any of you have any contact details of any person working in RSS? It would be a great help. Thank You

according to RSS.com you can reach them via email Contact@RSS.com

 

[danger007]

I concur with you my friend - current system despite having close to 7 decades of implementation is not working - maybe we should tinker with it?

It's not the religion who makes difference but the people. .. we need awareness and social responsibility until then reservations are needed... what we need is proper implementation. .. even with reservation Dalits are at this stage... but without? ??

 

[Marxist]

Atrocities Against Dalits High in Tamil Nadu, Claims NCSC -The New Indian Express

Crocodile tears for dalits ? First ask your X'ian brethren to treat them equally Dalit Christians allege neglect, demand equal rights in churches - The Hindu

 

[Irfan Baloch]

RSS: No need for secularism in India; colour of flag should be turned saffron as tricolour injects communalism

New Delhi, Sept 20: The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh reiterated its stand that ‘secularism’ is deliberately imposed in Indian polity. Calling it a ‘foreign concept’, the right-wing body opined that those masquerading behind secularism are instead injecting communalism in the Indian society.

RSS conducted a seminar of columnists in Chennai on Saturday, which was attended by 80 renowned writers in the southern belt. At the event, RSS’s All India Prachar Pramukh Manmohan Vaidya said, “The perversion of the concept of secularism in India has resulted in the terming of nationalists as communal and people with communal thinking being hailed as secular.” (ALSO READ: Rajasthan: IPS officer allegedly targeted by BJP govt for acting against Bajrang Dal, VHP rioters)

Vaidya claimed that B R Ambedkar, the chairman of constitution drafting committee was against inclusion of the term secular in the preamble, since he believed India was inherently a secular nation.

he Bharatiya tradition has from time immemorial regarded all faiths and sects as one and that the artificial injection of secularism is not needed in a society as hospitable and assimilative as Hindu society,” Vaidya added.

Further validating his point, Vaidya said: “secularism evolved along the themes of separation of the Church and State in Europe and since India doesn’t have a history of theocratic states, the concept of secularism is irrelevant in the Indian context.”

Triggering off another controversy, the senior RSS functionary raised objections over the tricolour of the Indian flag. According to Vaidya, the usage of different colours to represent different religions in India, was bound to evoke a communal thought. He claimed that the Congress Working Committee in 1931, demanded a saffron flag with the blue chakra at the centre of it. “That would have been the best representation of Indian ethos,” he added.


RSS: No need for secularism in India; colour of flag should be turned saffron as tricolour injects communalism | Latest News & Gossip on Popular Trends at India.com

all I can say is God Speed.. or should I say gods speed for RSS.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What consequence on internet? Only school boys or grownup with school boy mentality feel happy in giving some negative ratings to simple online posts.

What else you are capable of? Your negative ratings have been reversed, does that make you feel belittle or you are merely butthurt for my old response to your diktat?

#23
#212

all I can say is God Speed.. or should I say gods speed for RSS.

I hope you and @Slav Defence realise how horribly embarrassing it is that you look in. Can't you please just ignore this? Please?

Sometimes I feel that PakDef encourages cretins from the Indian side just to show themselves and the rest of the world that we have a wide selection of such cretins. It's a very hurtful thing to do, to ridicule us by allowing these prancing pr*cks so much air time.

 

[ranjeet]

You are being unfair.

It was a distorted version of secularism that we followed. Ironically considering the loathsome things that the British did to us, our version of 'secularism' resembles nothing so closely as British Multiculturalism. It was not an exclusion of every religion from affairs of state; it was the staggering opposite, an inclusion of religion, all religions, into every walk of life, all walks of time.

Who was the culprit? It pains me to say this, because I am not a Gandhi- basher, but it was the One Nation Theory that Gandhi started up. It obviously failed, for reasons that I shall not go into.

As far as no one raising their voices is concerned, you weren't listening. Trust me on that. The raised voices were not those of the street; I hate to point out that that is the only raised voice that the Sangh Parivar listens to.

Only thing that's unfair is people are too scared to call a spade a spade. But ever since BJP and more specially Modi came to power it's easy for people to question the way we practice secularism in our country. I wonder what if Congress had won the elections, would we still be debating about how we abused this term? or would we be gloating over victory of Secular forces over a mass murdering bigoted Hindu?

Our main stream media painted Modi communal back in 2002, I don't know for how long they will keep on persisting with this communal angle or rise of Evil Yindoos theory. We or I specifically don't demand special privileges for hindus but at least treat us equally. I saw how people twisted that unfortunate rape case of Old Nun in Kolkata, and I saw how that Quiz master came out all gun blazing lusting for Hindu blood. But that same guy was demeaning Tuktuki Mondal just because Hindu right wing demanded justice for her.

So, my apologies Sir but I don't believe this demand for "lets follow Secularism in it's truest sense" is out of genuine change of heart. Rather it seems like a weak attempt to whitewash sins of Congress and present them as a born again Real Secular alternative under the dynamic leadership of charismatic Rahul Gandhi to communal BJP.


That's my take on this whole thing, I might be right but if wrong, will accept it happily.

What's wrong is that it is creating problems - neither Hindus are happy nor Muslims both feel alienated as both believe that the other party is the one which being appeased.

Secularism means a state should totally separate itself from religion and all laws much be religion neutral.

Culprit are the people who seek to benefit from the discontent and hence strive to keep the discontent alive by making sure scope for such discontent remains in form of religion specific laws and policies.

How can opportunists be culprit for the mess they want to exploit?

 

[danger007]

Crocodile tears for dalits ? First ask your X'ian brethren to treat them equally Dalit Christians allege neglect, demand equal rights in churches - The Hindu

so one incident = total atrocities against Dalits... i leave it to your wisdom. . lolz

 

[Marxist]

so one incident = total atrocities against Dalits... i leave it to your wisdom. . lolz

There are many incidents of Caste based Burial sites to Boycotting Dalit priests do you want me to post everything ?,Due to that many are returning to Hinduism through Ghar Vapsi

 

[Anees]

if i remember correctly, religious discussion wasn't allowed on this forum.

@Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Icarus @Horus @WebMaster

@MOD

 

[Joe Shearer]

Only thing that's unfair is people are too scared to call a spade a spade. But ever since BJP and more specially Modi came to power it's easy for people to question the way we practice secularism in our country. I wonder what if Congress had won the elections, would we still be debating about how we abused this term? or would we be gloating over victory of Secular forces over a mass murdering bigoted Hindu?

It was easy even earlier, it is just that the religious right - you - had painted itself into a corner, and was enjoying the feeling of victimhood. This victimhood business is not isolated to minorities in our weird country, the majority community also embraced it.

Our main stream media painted Modi communal back in 2002, I don't know for how long they will keep on persisting with this communal angle or rise of Evil Yindoos theory. We or I specifically don't demand special privileges for hindus but at least treat us equally.

Let us agree that the mainstream media are permanently mentally disabled, and capable of causing real harm.

On the other hand, I have no doubt in my mind that the Modi administration - not just Modi as an individual - is wholly communal. It is difficult to decide whose case to hold up for you to cringe away from, because each and every single minister, with the possible, partial exceptions of Sushma Swaraj and Jaitley, is a specimen by himself or herself.

I saw how people twisted that unfortunate rape case of Old Nun in Kolkata, and I saw how that Quiz master came out all gun blazing lusting for Hindu blood. But that same guy was demeaning Tuktuki Mondal just because Hindu right wing demanded justice for her.

You are entitled to say this, although my own wording would have been "....that rape case of the unfortunate Old Nun in Kolkata..."

You are also entitled to use any other example. I wish, personally speaking, very sentimentally speaking, that you had not used Tuktuk as one; she and Papeeha were friends from the Junior Statesman days, though we lost touch soon after.

So, my apologies Sir but I don't believe this demand for "lets follow Secularism in it's truest sense" is out of genuine change of heart. Rather it seems like a weak attempt to whitewash sins of Congress and present them as a born again Real Secular alternative under the dynamic leadership of charismatic Rahul Gandhi to communal BJP.

It isn't clear at whom your finger is pointing, but if it is at me, sorry, wrong address. Since you are one of the older members, you must be aware of my hatred of the Congress and its decaying retardation of the country. If I speak up for secularism as we should have practised it, there is not the slightest desire to whitewash the sins of the Congress. It is better that it dies, and that Rahul Baba go back to the oblivion to which he rightly belongs.

What does that have to do with secularism? They are not the champions; as Bang Galore has pointed out somewhere, it was Rajiv Gandhi's terrible failure of judgement and his surrender to the unprincipled actions around the Babri Masjid that created much of today's situation. They just used the term cynically to signify their neutrality trending towards the vote bank principle.

That's my take on this whole thing, I might be right but if wrong, will accept it happily.

How can opportunists be culprit for the mess they want to exploit?

I have no doubt that you will find sufficient mistakes in my post to be able to reject it.