Roadmap to AMCA

[Tshering22]

Guess AMCA would also be developed along the lines of Arihant; total secrecy. Even now, no clear picture of Arihant is out. I hope HAL can actually take the strain of managing 4 projects simultaneously. They've to complete MKIs, then MRCAs then FGFAs, MRTAs and then AMCAs. Not to mention Tejas Mk 2. Even experienced aerospace companies haven't done this in the past.

The best way is to split HAL into a joint-stock company and another sub-unit that solely handles one specific type of aircraft eg: handling fighters only.

HAL handles too many things: helos, gunships, fighters, transporters..etc. It is too much for anyone to delay.

 

[Birbal]

Guess AMCA would also be developed along the lines of Arihant; total secrecy. Even now, no clear picture of Arihant is out.

I'm not so sure about that though. While the F-22 and J-20 were developed in high secrecy, and the PAK FA in medium secrecy, so far it seems like there's a lot of AMCA information available. I'd say the reason we don't have more specific details is that the project itself is in the design stages right now.

I hope HAL can actually take the strain of managing 4 projects simultaneously. They've to complete MKIs, then MRCAs then FGFAs, MRTAs and then AMCAs. Not to mention Tejas Mk 2. Even experienced aerospace companies haven't done this in the past.

The important thing is that these different projects are in various stages. So for example while some of the more technical engineers work out the details on the FGFA and Tejas Mk 2., the design people work on the MRTA and AMCA, and the manufacturing side works on the MKI, Tejas, and MRCA. I don't think this is too big a load if you compare it with Lockheed Martin or Sukhoi.

The best way is to split HAL into a joint-stock company and another sub-unit that solely handles one specific type of aircraft eg: handling fighters only.

HAL handles too many things: helos, gunships, fighters, transporters..etc. It is too much for anyone to delay.

Never thought about this before, but your suggestion makes sense. There's way too many diverse projects that HAL is having to handle.

 

[Shaurya]

I'm not so sure about that though. While the F-22 and J-20 were developed in high secrecy, and the PAK FA in medium secrecy, so far it seems like there's a lot of AMCA information available. I'd say the reason we don't have more specific details is that the project itself is in the design stages right now.

Not really, the Indian aircrat carrier 60% work of which has been completed was still shrodded in secrecy while many were wondering if the work has even begun on it, similar thing with arihant, agni V and possibly agni 6 , just because they regularly don't announce anything doesn't mean they are not working on it. IMO this is the best practice to follow, first complete the project and then announce it. The other thing is nobody is even aware where exactly the AMCA is being developed (most probably in HAL headquaters in bengaluru) and most people will refrain from getting into judicial trouble by intefering in defence matters. The defence officials can potentially arrest you if you are found doing suspicious activities around their area.. so I dont think anybody would risk their lives in such situations. But I am quite sure, the work has begun and a prototype will be ready by 2017 given, everything gets through smoothly

---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------

I'm not sure about the credibility of this. Maybe they are talking about maximum take off weight and not empty weight. Because the aircrafts planned by the US or Russia are definitely not going to weigh 30 tonnes, as this link says, at least not when empty. Your next post actually supports my statement, where it says that the AMCA's maximum take off weight would be 25 tonnes. Which would make its empty weight less than 20 tonnes for sure.

Maybe, I am not sure about that... but I thought it would be in the range of 20-25 tonnes anyways..

 

[Shaurya]

Kaveri engine has 81 Kn thrust max, which I think higher than the current Rafale engine thrust. So if even the Kaveri MK1 mature by that time, it is enough for the first variants.

Apparently the IAF is not satisfied with this thrust and wants atleast 90-95 kN thrust power, thats why DRDO is working with scnema to meet the requirements of IAF, inshort, IAF is the main culprit for the delays not DRDO or HAL

 

[SQ8]

Apparently the IAF is not satisfied with this thrust and wants atleast 90-95 kN thrust power, thats why DRDO is working with scnema to meet the requirements of IAF, inshort, IAF is the main culprit for the delays not DRDO or HAL

Has been the culprit throughout the LCA program..
infact the LCA program has na analogy in the M2 Bradley program.
A long and protracted development program that was delayed by continually changing requirements by the US army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars

 

[Tshering22]

I'm not so sure about that though. While the F-22 and J-20 were developed in high secrecy, and the PAK FA in medium secrecy, so far it seems like there's a lot of AMCA information available. I'd say the reason we don't have more specific details is that the project itself is in the design stages right now.

Well, you can think about it this way; AMCA info whatever has come out has got no specs. Even in design, full specifications in numbers will be present for the designers to consider. Eg: ability to carry 6 or 8 BVRAAMs and ASMs internally, ability to encase a 90Kn engine, etc etc. These specs are not out because we'd only see some substance coming to real life prototype of AMCA by 2020. Nothing before that can be too realistic.

The important thing is that these different projects are in various stages. So for example while some of the more technical engineers work out the details on the FGFA and Tejas Mk 2., the design people work on the MRTA and AMCA, and the manufacturing side works on the MKI, Tejas, and MRCA. I don't think this is too big a load if you compare it with Lockheed Martin or Sukhoi.

I am saying this as a big load eventually in the coming 10 years when 2-3 of these projects would be inducted into RuAF and IAFs respectively. Induction of Rafale and FGFA won't be 100% complete by 2020 and with production lines for Tejas closing at that time, MRTA which is to start by 2016-17 into production would also add pressure.

 

[Shaurya]

Well, you can think about it this way; AMCA info whatever has come out has got no specs. Even in design, full specifications in numbers will be present for the designers to consider. Eg: ability to carry 6 or 8 BVRAAMs and ASMs internally, ability to encase a 90Kn engine, etc etc. These specs are not out because we'd only see some substance coming to real life prototype of AMCA by 2020. Nothing before that can be too realistic.

I don't think expecting a prototype before would be unrealistic but yeah induction would, as IAF would throw it's tantrums again and then it can be delayed

I am saying this as a big load eventually in the coming 10 years when 2-3 of these projects would be inducted into RuAF and IAFs respectively. Induction of Rafale and FGFA won't be 100% complete by 2020 and with production lines for Tejas closing at that time, MRTA which is to start by 2016-17 into production would also add pressure.

IMO , we shouldn't assume (although it's safe to do so) that the production infrastructure of HAL or nay such company won't improve. I personally believe, these jokers must work their a$$ off and must be kepT busy. atleast their empty brains won't rust out. On a serious note, I also want to see the likes of TATA and Mahindra (possibly) Birla too, to open up their shops in the aviation sectors just like sukhoi corp. of Russia. I believe Indian govt. cannot match the efficiency and time discipline as private companies can, the only thing they need is money, which the MOD is already wasting on the delayed projects.

 

[rockstarIN]

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

DRDO has selected the more powerful GE-414 as the alternative engine for LCA Mk-II. However, it has been suggested that when the first 40 GE 404 engines in the initial two squadrons of the LCA for the Indian Air Force (IAF) get phased out, they should be replaced by the Kaveri-Snecma, in future. Not only does DRDO plan to replace the GE engines on the LCA Mk-I with the Snecma-GTRE engine, it intends to include it in the proposed advanced medium combat aircraft and unmanned combat air vehicle

 

[Birbal]

Radar power

Anil Kumar Singh, who is also Project Director for the Active Electronically Scanning Array (AESA) radar, called it “an ambitious project”. The project was approved in January. The main role of the radar, which will be integrated with the fighter aircraft, is to direct the fire accurately from the aircraft. It will feature advanced electronic counter, counter measures (ECCMs). The radar will direct the fire from air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea missiles.