RND: Erdogan becomes a danger to NATO

[hyperman]

That's what the Turkish government likes to say. The Tobruk government is led by the House of Representatives under Aguila Saleh. Haftar is the Marshall of the Libyan National Army. It's simple. You guys keep saying stuff like "Warlord Haftar",well it's like me saying "Warlord Akar. Erdogan is just a puppet,Akar's got the real power. He is the leader" etc.

Umm there is a difference between a recognized state and some rando with weapons supplied by foreign powers and him running wild, its the literal definition of a warlord. and lets not pretend that Haftar is not the one in charge. lol

Yes,the siege of Tripoli ended. Turkey saved the GNA for sure. But then what happened? The Egyptians threatened with to intervene and a ceasefire was decided.

Well why did Turkey intervene in the first place? b/c Hafter thought his French daddies would allow him to take over Tripoli. Turkey pushed for a ceasefire and worked with Putin and then this guy balked thinking he could just take it by force. Turkey accomplished its objectives of ending the siege.

Fake news?

Yes, If it wasn't fake why did NATO do nothing? not even a statement? French rage quit after their BS claims were investigated. Also for some "Anti Russia" guy, you sure like to consume a lot of Pro Russian propaganda. lol they are still literally finding mass graves left behind by Haftar, Wagner, Haftar's favorite general Al Werfalli and friends in Tarhouna.

 

[Damir877]

I find it hilarious that Turkey blocking Sweden and Finland is a major problem but when Greece did the same thing for 12 years to North Macedonia nobody in NATO seemed to have any issues with it.Some might say it seems like a hypocrisy or at least a double standard.

 

[hyperman]

I find it hilarious that Turkey blocking Sweden and Finland is a major problem but when Greece did the same thing for 12 years to North Macedonia nobody in NATO seemed to have any issues with it.Some might say it seems like a hypocrisy or at least a double standard.

Yep Blocked the Republic of Macedonia, and bullied Albania as well for years on end. now they cry crocodile tears b/c Turkey wants to get things right in what has been a very rapid process. lol

 

[Foinikas]

Umm there is a difference between a recognized state and some rando with weapons supplied by foreign powers and him running wild, its the literal definition of a warlord. and lets not pretend that Haftar is not the one in charge. lol

Random? The government of Libya split in two. One part in Tripoli and one in Tobruk. Remember that Turkey also didn't recognize Assad ever since the war in Syria and until recently called Sisi a dictator.

Well why did Turkey intervene in the first place? b/c Hafter thought his French daddies would allow him to take over Tripoli. Turkey pushed for a ceasefire and worked with Putin and then this guy balked thinking he could just take it by force. Turkey accomplished its objectives of ending the siege.

"French daddies"? You forget Saudi Arabia,UAE,Egypt,Russia and others? Why do you single out France?

Turkey saved Sarraj and then actively helped the GNA expand up to Sirte. Then Egypt was about to get in the conflict with a big force.

Yes, If it wasn't fake why did NATO do nothing? not even a statement? French rage quit after their BS claims were investigated.

Because for some reason,NATO has been following a policy of "appeasement" when it comes to Turkey. They've been tolerating almost everything Erdogan has been doing. Of course,Erdogan too changes his stance once in a while. Not completely with NATO,but not completely with Russia either.

Also for some "Anti Russia" guy, you sure like to consume a lot of Pro Russian propaganda. lol they are still literally finding mass graves left behind by Haftar, Wagner, Haftar's favorite general Al Werfalli and friends in Tarhouna.

I'm not anti-Russian. I'm not in favor of this war in Ukraine either. Putin shouldn't have started that stupid war.

When it comes to mass graves and mercenaries though,don't talk big,because the TFSA in Syria were some of the most notorious barbarians in the conflict,since lots of groups were hardcore jihadis and radicals.

I find it hilarious that Turkey blocking Sweden and Finland is a major problem but when Greece did the same thing for 12 years to North Macedonia nobody in NATO seemed to have any issues with it.Some might say it seems like a hypocrisy or at least a double standard.

Because the claims that came with the name and the heritage were connected to irridentist agendas and narration. I don't really care about Sweden and Finland getting in NATO. But the Westerners seem extremely pissed off about it.

and bullied Albania as well for years on end.

Bullied Albania how? lol

 

[Damir877]

Because the claims that came with the name and the heritage were connected to irridentist agendas and narration.

Lol no it wasn't but since Greece has aspirations for other peoples lands they probably projected that,thinking that everyone wants to take their land as well.As a matter of fact Turkey has at least real reasons for blocking Finland and Sweden.
As far as threats to neighbours go which countries soldiers were singing that they will "drink Turkish and Albanian blood" or something along those lines?

 

[Foinikas]

Lol no it wasn't but since Greece has aspirations for other peoples lands they probably projected that,thinking that everyone wants to take their land as well.

Which lands exactly?

As far as threats to neighbours go which countries soldiers were singing that they will "drink Turkish and Albanian blood" or something along those lines?

I suppose in your country,the special forces sing Smurf songs and Lady Gaga?

 

[Akritas]

Its fake news, nothing happened, NATO took Turkey's side after the investigation, and the French threw a tantrum. lol

NATO has never issued any official announcement- the final report is classified- finally are you reproducing a fake news after all?

 

[Damir877]

Which lands exactly?

Apparently everyone else's.Ever hear of "Megali idea"?

I suppose in your country,the special forces sing Smurf songs and Lady Gaga?

They don't seem to sing much,it's not in their job description.And even if they did what has that to do with "peaceful NATO ally Greece" threatening 3 of their neighbours and fellow NATO members.
If anyone else did it you would be whining to Macron for days.But apparently when Greeks do it it's normal.Western Europeans really spoiled you a lot.

 

[Akritas]

Turkey's role as a middle power mediator would be jeopardized if it placed sanctions. Turkey gets the best of both worlds, Turkey has no obligations to follow EU foreign policy(not that there is any consolidated policy) and sanctions regimes, b/c Turkey is not a EU member, Turkey will do what is in Turkey's best interests, but like other major NATO partners like Israel, the UAE, India, etc. Ukraine doesn't seem to mind, if anything Zelensky thanks Turkey for its role in facilitating the grain deal among other things, Turkey facilitated the withdrawal of Ukrainian POWs from Mariupol, it cannot do such things with active hostility towards Russia. Turkey's importance to Ukraine, with regards to its influence on Tatars, its supplying of weaponry, economic investments in Ukrainian defense with the Bayraktar factory, sale of critical subsystems, buying of ukrainian engines, codevelopement of other systems is very valuable to Ukraine. Turkey's strategic relationship with Ukraine is far deeper and goes further back than some opportunistic johnny come latelys trying to curry favor by dumping their old s-300 for new hardware and trying to draw in others to their disagreements and painting it as some principled sacrifice to help Ukraine, if you want to help ukraine, hand over the s-300 with no strings attached. lol, not too long ago, they were laundering Russian Oligarch money and giving Russians schengen passports in corrupt investment schemes, and now they act like "Russia was never my friend", and how dare Turkey do trade, look how "disloyal" they are, EU/US/France daddy please attack Turkey on our behalf. lol

But exactly for this reason the German journalists accuse her... that is, that she is not interested in the allied good, but only her own. After all, Turkey is only formally in the NATO alliance after the collapse of the USSR. It follows its own expansionist and revisionist policy, it is no coincidence that it has invaded 2 neighboring countries, turns a blind eye to ISIS, fuels tension in Libya and Artsakh, and much more.
You mentioned the EU, but it wants to come to the EU, so if it wants to come in, it has to follow its rules and decisions. For the reasons I mentioned earlier, it is obvious that fortunately it has not entered. Personally, I do not consider Islamic Turkey as a part of European culture, because it simply does not want to be.

 

[Akritas]

Turkey is defending Turkish interests, and even Stoltenberg acknowledged that Turkey has legitimate concerns with regards to the PKK, and Turkey is working with Finland and Sweden to resolve such issues. Did you create such a hissy fit when you "put obstacles in the way of NATO expansion" by blocking the Republic of Macedonia or try to leverage Albania's membership application to gain the upper hand in relations with Albania. Or the blocking of NATO resolutions and Action Plans with regards to attacks on Turkey's southern border, jeopardizing the safety of another NATO state, over your own personal grievances with Turkey? Or when Greece jeopardizes the interests of other EU states, just so it can use EU leverage in its bilateral quarrels with Turkey.

Stoltenberg's nickname in NATO is Turkenberg, it's funny you bring that up to me as an example.
You compare the opposition that Greece had, with the name of a country, which was under negotiation through the UN, with Turkey, which is asking without trial to send people to it to imprison them as ...terrorists.
Really, why doesn't your country, the USA, send Yulen to Turkey?
Is it because they know Turkey is lying about the charges?
If you are American after all, because judging by the rest of what you say, you are simply a Turk, with a very good use of the English language.

Turkey is sacrificing too much for NATO.

And by all means, if Turkey doesn't like NATO, get up and leave and go to Rusia-China's NATO.

 

[Akritas]

Well they weren't armed to begin with, they were demilitirized by treaties Greece signed, Misotakis wanted to act tough and militarized them along with the maximalist policies and lobbying for tensions via the greek lobby in the US and sucking up to Macron, then is shocked that tensions increased. lol

Do you realize that you are repeating what the Turks say, so that's why I'm asking you:

• Tell me ONE maximalist policy, which has been officially formulated by the Greek government?

• You talked about militarization and violation of treaties, so I would like you to answer to me when we have "Mavi Vatan-type dogmas" and "Mîsâk-ı Millî national borders", as are constantly repeated by Turkish officials, is it ever possible Greece to demilitarize the island defenses?

• Does Turkey have or does not have lobbyists in Washington to promote its policies?

 

[Akritas]

On the other hand, its Greece that needs to stop helping Russia in Libya in establishing a military presence there, and Supporting Russia and Iran's ally Assad.

And how does Greece help Russia in Libya?
Be more specific.
You have opened a fan of arguments, most of them false, without proving them, with the intention of taking the conversation around Greece, but it won't work for you.

I find it hilarious that Turkey blocking Sweden and Finland is a major problem but when Greece did the same thing for 12 years to North Macedonia nobody in NATO seemed to have any issues with it.Some might say it seems like a hypocrisy or at least a double standard.

I answer you as I answered another member: You compare the opposition that Greece had, with the name of a country, which was under negotiation through the UN, with Turkey, which is asking without trial to send refugee people to it to imprison them as ...terrorists.

 

[Damir877]

I answer you as I answered another member: You compare the opposition that Greece had, with the name of a country, which was under negotiation through the UN, with Turkey, which is asking without trial to send refugee people to it to imprison them as ...terrorists.

Terrorism is actually a legitimate reason for blocking someone from joining a security pact.Imaginary,invented problems with other countries is not.And the only reason the the name was under negotiation in UN was because Greece blocked EU recognition of North Macedonia as a country,using EU and NATO to blackmail and force a name change.Not to mention negotiating with Milosevic about splitting the country until US and Turkey forced Mitsotakis to back off.Talk about friendly and constructive neighbours.
Anyway you missed my point,which wasn't Greece's bullying North Macedonia but EU and NATO's hypocrisy in the cases of Greece and Turkey in which one was ilegally blocking other country's accession to NATO(according to International court of justice) while other one gets vilified for having terrorism concerns.

 

[Foinikas]

Apparently everyone else's.Ever hear of "Megali idea"?

We live in the Balkans!

 

[Foinikas]

Imaginary,invented problems with other countries is not.

"Imaginary"? Imaginary problems? When a neighboring country is stealing your name,history,figures,achievements and heritage,to creaty their own ethnic identity? And with all that come irridentist claims? That's imaginary problems?

The statues the erected in Skopje,the names of squares and airports and everything,are imaginary? The use of the Star of Vergina in the unnoficial flag of FYROM,the red variant,that's imaginary?

Let me ask you something,imagine that someone steals your ID. And pretends he is you to people,going around using your name and achievements,your past,to socialize,gain money,attention,anything. Then he ends up trying to get in the building you live in,but you don't let him. Is that blackmail?