Retaking Kashmir after 70 years

[baajey]

superb thread....

 

[Viny]

10 Million Kashmiri will be given Anza and Baktar Shiken

Anza + Kashimir = Freedom

How was your maths in school?
Did you checked your forex reserves?

Pakistani flag is already waving in Kashmiri people's hand

If an indian mistakes Islamic flag to be pakistani flag i can understand...but if a pakistani does it..it must be Azadpakistan2009

All of the valley is ground level route

An average Pakistani population can just walk there or take a taxi and get there in 30 minutes

In 30 minutes 10 million Pakistani citizens can flood the area forget about Pakistani Army

+10,000,000 Million Kashmiri Pakistani Citizens (Indian forced imprisonment)
+10,000,000 Million Pakistani Citizens
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20,000,000 Million Freedom Force

Pakistani Army is extra on the side

You are talking about numbers and movements, seriously its for sure not the afgan weed, you got something much stronger there...


Guys its been one of the most hilarious thread in recent days ....

 

[alphibeti]

As most Pakistani says here they defeated super power in afghanistan. US spent trillion dollar still couldn’t win. Yes but they won’t kill irony and will get Kashmir by mere 11 billion dollar budget. Yes good luck with you guys are showing supper intelligence.
It’s for valley only where you will get militants support forget about getting support else where in Kashmir. And yes you guys have money to spend on war right ? Please be our guest and get Kashmir.
Let me tell you few simple logic.
1. Our budget allocations is low but it’s still much more than your country, and what do you think we will be in war in still keep on spending same?
2. We have enough forex reserve surplus to spend on how you guys gonna afford war.
3. Indian army is relatively strong and indian navy is far superior. We may not have as surplus aircraft as we had but what our navy will be doing watching show? good luck with fighting indian navy.
4. What kind support you’re talking about? USA please they didn’t pay your so called expenses on war against terrorism. Or didn’t even give you cheap f16. Good luck with getting spares for it.
Russia? Just getting military exercise will make them support you ? Lol yeah and they will support you against their biggest military hardware buyer.
5.So called islamic world support? Each islamic country has own agend all they can do is give you some funds that’s it.
Don’t forget weaker IAF still stronger than PAF in terms of numbers and equipment.
6. Nuclear will be suicide for Pakistan let me tell you one thing both country will eventually blow each other but will land size of India there will be still some india left, can’t say same for Pakistan.
I still have one question how you guys gonna afford a war ? money you guys received is to pay existing loan it’s not gonna stay in bank to use.
Only thing Pakistan really capable of is proxy war. Yes ISI is capable of doing some terror attack but good luck with winning war.
Also i am also aware of that fighting Pakistan will cost India a lot and it won’t consider as victory but don’t thing like you guys gonna crush india have some brain.

Only a coward like you gets lost in a 'simple' logic (which is non-sense BTW). If you have balls, do what the heck you leaders, media, and sena have been saying - teach a lesson to Pakistan. I have seen them screaming non-stop like a mad dog. You can have all your budget up your legs if you cannot teach a lesson to a country nine times smaller than you.

How was your maths in school?
Did you checked your forex reserves?

How was your English in Temple School, BTW?

 

[Gryphon]

@Signalian @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer

I have posted the ORBAT of PA on pg 9, #132.
Errors, if any, may be mentioned.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Signalian @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer

I have posted the ORBAT of PA on pg 9, #132.
Errors, if any, may be mentioned.

Thank you very much.

superb thread....

I agree, but let us give credit where it is due. It is awesome to encounter the level of information that @Gryphon and @Signalian have hit us with. It is to be hoped that when @Nilgiri graphs it, we can see at a glance the thinking and the strategic vision behind each side's planning.

For instance, we see one Corps completely devoted to counter-insurgency; they presumably also have broad oversight of their western borders. Other formations form a ring around their critical living areas: Islamabad, Rawalpindi, and Lahore and Sialkot are enclosed in a ring of steel, heavily infantry, with some units even more greatly than the normal equipped for anti-tank warfare and attached to various headquarters. Obviously these are the fall-back units, the second line of defence. All their mountain infantry is in these parts, to the north of the urban complexes that populate the Punjab. Apparently they are not particularly exercised about the possibility of attack, probably because of the difficult topography there.

Looking at their 4th Corps shows a similar picture. I haven't yet read Gryphon's full post, only his' original truncated one. Reading his (and, earlier, that by @Signalian) accounts, and reading the Orbat, quite clearly speaks to the interested reader. We hear it say lots of things. Let's wait till the Indian version comes in as well.

 

[Signalian]

• IABG's at Nowshera / Khuzdar reported on Wiki only, no evidence these exist.

You have put Independent Brigades under Mechanized Divisions. Divisional troops are not independent at Brigade level.

Wiki information cannot be trusted.

There was armor movement from Nowshera to Peshawar during border wall conflict with Afghanistan a year or two back, there was a video about it. That armor didn't belong to Armor School where as the Armor Regiments of 7 ID and 9 ID are deployed ahead with infantry.

Khuzdar housed an Armored Brigade under 12 Corps back in 2000's. Khuzdar cantonment was also used as a transit camp for forces travelling between karachi- Quetta. If that Brigade has been moved or joined 25th or 26th Mech Divs, i can't say for sure.

 

[Nilgiri]

11 Corps (HQ Peshawar):

• 7 Infantry Division - Peshawar
• 9 Infantry Division - Kohat

No IABG / IMBG.

10 Corps (HQ Rawalpindi):

• FCNA - Gilgit (Mountain Infantry)
• 12 Infantry Division - Murree (Mountain Infantry)
• 23 Infantry Division - Jhelum

Reserve 10 Corps:

• 34 Light Infantry Division (Special Security Division) - Rawalpindi
• 19 Infantry Division - Mangla
• 111 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Rawalpindi

No IABG / IMBG.

30 Corps (HQ Gujranwala; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):

• 8 Infantry Division - Sialkot
• 15 Infantry Division - Sialkot
• 54 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Sialkot

Reserve 30 Corps:

• 19 IABG - Gujranwala
• 30 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Lahore

1 Strike Corps (HQ Mangla; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):

• 6 Armoured Division - Gujranwala
• 2 Artillery Division - Gujranwala
• 17 Infantry Division - Kharian
• 37 Infantry Division - Kharian
• 8 IABG - Kharian

4 Corps (HQ Lahore; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):

• 10 Infantry Division - Lahore
• 11 Infantry Division - Lahore
• 212 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Chunian

Reserve 4 Corps:

• 3 IABG - Chunian

12 Corps (HQ Quetta; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):

• 33 Infantry Division - Quetta
• 41 Infantry Division - Quetta

No IABG / IMBG.

31 Corps (HQ Bahawalpur; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):

• 14 Infantry Division - Okara
• 35 Infantry Division - Bahawalpur

Reserve 31 Corps:

• HQ 26 Mechanized Division - Bahawalpur (commands 10 IABG - Bahawalpur, 14 IABG - Bahawalpur and 44 IMBG - Bahawalpur)

2 Strike Corps (HQ Multan; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):

• 1 Armoured Division - Multan
• 40 Infantry Division - Okara
• 42 IABG - Multan

5 Corps (HQ Karachi; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):

• 16 Infantry Division - Pano Aqil
• 18 Infantry Division - Hyderabad
• 21 Artillery Division - Pano Aqil

Reserve 5 Corps:

• HQ 25 Mechanized Division - Malir (commands 12 IABG - Malir, 330 IABG - Malir and 31 IMBG - Malir)
• 2 IABG - Karachi

NOTES:

• Both Infantry Divisions of 11 Corps heavily involved in COIN, op HQ's established elsewhere.
• HAT battalions to Corps HQ's & HAT companies / LAT battalions to Divisions are assigned as per operational requirements.
• IABG's at Nowshera / Khuzdar reported on Wiki only, no evidence these exist.
• Corps with no Arty Div have Arty Bde (I am unable to identify all these Bdes & their loc).
• Most Corps have own Air Defence Bde.

Thanks!

I'm having a look at this thread too, with some useful info:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-armor-division-of-pakistan-army.552525/

@Signalian

 

[Signalian]

Thanks!

I'm having a look at this thread too, with some useful info:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-armor-division-of-pakistan-army.552525/

@Signalian

Hahaha yeah good old thread, PA mixes up its formations in war time. i wrote peace time stats.

 

[Signalian]

@Armchair @FuturePAF any input in this thread will be appreciated.

 

[Gryphon]

You have put Independent Brigades under Mechanized Divisions. Divisional troops are not independent at Brigade level.

Mechanized Divisions were raised as the higher HQ to manage 31 and 5 Corps Independent Bdes which were in existence as of early 2000's. The brigades retain their independent character, but are integrated be operate as a division.

Wiki information cannot be trusted.

There was armor movement from Nowshera to Peshawar during border wall conflict with Afghanistan a year or two back, there was a video about it. That armor didn't belong to Armor School where as the Armor Regiments of 7 ID and 9 ID are deployed ahead with infantry.

Khuzdar housed an Armored Brigade under 12 Corps back in 2000's. Khuzdar cantonment was also used as a transit camp for forces travelling between karachi- Quetta. If that Brigade has been moved or joined 25th or 26th Mech Divs, i can't say for sure.

KPK / FATA is op area, units (incl. Armd Bdes) from eastern formations have been involved, you have an Arty Div presently moved to Swat (and beyond), then you also have 17 Inf Div elements involved as well (in the same area).

Existed/may have existed is not being discussed here. Bring us evidence - at least name the Bdes or post some tank pics with 11/12 Corps insignia.

 

[Signalian]

Mechanized Divisions were raised as the higher HQ to manage 31 and 5 Corps Independent Bdes which were in existence as of early 2000's. The brigades retain their independent character, but are integrated be operate as a division.



KPK / FATA is op area, units (incl. Armd Bdes) from eastern formations have been involved, you have an Arty Div presently moved to Swat (and beyond), then you also have 17 ID Inf Div elements involved as well (in the same area).

Existed/may have existed is not being discussed here. Bring us evidence - at least name the Bdes or post some tank pics with 11/12 Corps insignia.

I check about Armd Bdes, you are right, none in 11/12 Corps.

Will check about Mech Div's and Indp Bdes.

 

[Gryphon]

Will check about Mech Div's and Indp Bdes.

Wish PA had a Mech Div + 3x Indp Armd Bde Gp's in each of these Corps. The current inventory of MBT's does not support such a structure.

I saw a PA Infantry Div with a Mechanized Bde: 1 Armd Regt + 2 MIB's. Clearly, PA wants IA RAPID like formations, but with MBT & IFV induction/selection progressing at snail's pace, this is unlikely to materialize in the short-to-medium term.

 

[Signalian]

Wish PA had a Mech Div + 3x Indp Armd Bde Gp's in each of these Corps. The current inventory of MBT's does not support such a structure.

I saw a PA Infantry Div with a Mechanized Bde: 1 Armd Regt + 2 MIB's. Clearly, PA wants IA RAPID like formations, but with MBT & IFV induction/selection progressing at snail's pace, this is unlikely to materialize in the short-to-medium term.

Which Div

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Forget division, get to people , and unleash the anger of local Kashmiri people on enemy soldiers , they will win their own freedom

 

[Gryphon]

Which Div

35 ID.

@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri

This thread was supposed to yield some ORBAT mapping. Dead?