Retaking Kashmir after 70 years

[Yankee-stani]

It requires two sides willing to talk. India cannot afford peace, BJP will never win elections again.

You see I dont understand why the "Indians" claim "Kashmir" as an "Integral part of India" when they drag Kashmiris and anyone from Kashmir on the streets beat them in even "cosmopolitan" cities like Delhi and Mumbai face it no Kashmiri want to be part of India the only reason they want is to control the waters of the region and for potential resources

at least the Pakistanis say if the Kashmiris want to be a separate from Pakistan or India Pakistan would 100 percent agree on that

 

[Signalian]

1. Organised formations in Northern Command:
   1. XIV Corps
      1. 3rd Infantry Division (Leh)
      2. 8th Infantry Division (Kargil)
      3. Independent formations
         1. 102nd Independent Infantry Brigade
   2. XV Corps
      1. 19th Infantry Division (Baramulla)
      2. 28th Infantry Division (Gurez)
      3. Independent formations
         1. () Artillery Brigade
   3. XVI Corps
      1. 10th Infantry Division (Akhnoor)
      2. 25th Infantry Division (Rajauri)
      3. 39th Infantry Division (Yol)

In response, PA has deployed:

X Corps
Divisions
1. FCNA (Gilgit)
2. 12th Infantry Division (Murree)
3. 19th Infantry Division (Mangla)
4. 23rd Infantry Division (Jhelum)
5. 34th Light Infantry Division (Chilas) (Units deployed in Kashmir, KPK, Baluchistan)(aka S S D)
Independent Brigades:
1. 111th Independent Infantry Brigade (Rawalpindi)
2. ?? Independent Artillery Brigade (Murree)
3. ?? Signals Brigade (Rawalpindi)

National guard units such as Janbaz and Mujahid are also attached to X-Corps.

1. Separated out of Northern Command, assigned to Western Command
   1. 9 Corps (they like to write their name this way, I have no idea why)
      1. 26th Infantry Division (Jammu)
      2. 29th Infantry Division (Pathankot)
      3. Independent formations
         1. 2nd Independent Armoured Brigade
         2. 3rd Independent Armoured Brigade
         3. 16th Independent Armoured Brigade
   2. Other formations in Western Command

PA units South-East of LOC.

XXX Corps
Divisions
1. 8th Infantry Division (Sialkot)
2. 15th Infantry Division (Sialkot)
Independent Brigades:
1. 19th Independent Armored Brigade (Sialkot)
2. 54th Independent Infantry Brigade (Sialkot)
3. ?? Heavy Anti Tank Brigade (Sialkot)
4. ?? Independent Artillery Brigade (Sialkot)
5. ?? Signals Brigade (Sialkot)



PA formation south of LOC and IB.

I Corps
Divisions
1. 6th Armored Division (Gujranwala)
2. 17th Infantry Division (Kharian)
3. 37th Infantry Division (Kharian)
Independent Brigades:
1. 8th Independent Armored Brigade (Kharian) (used to be under X- Corps)
2. ?? Signals Brigade (Kharian)

@Gryphon amend or verify

 

[Great Janjua]

In response, PA has deployed:

X Corps
Divisions
1. FCNA (Gilgit)
2. 12th Infantry Division (Murree)
3. 19th Infantry Division (Mangla)
4. 23rd Infantry Division (Jhelum)
5. 34th Light Infantry Division (Chilas) (Units deployed in Kashmir, KPK, Baluchistan)(aka S S D)
Brigades:
1. 111th Independent Infantry Brigade (Rawalpindi)
2. ?? Independent Artillery Brigade (Murree)
3. ?? Signals Brigade (Rawalpindi)

National guard units such as Janbaz and Mujahid are also attached to X-Corps.

PA units South-East of LOC.

XXX Corps
Divisions
1. 8th Infantry Division (Sialkot)
2. 15th Infantry Division (Sialkot)
Brigades:
1. 19th Independent Armored Brigade (Sialkot)
2. 54th Independent Infantry Brigade (Sialkot)
3. ?? Heavy Anti Tank Brigade (Sialkot)
4. ?? Independent Artillery Brigade (Sialkot)
5. ?? Signals Brigade (Sialkot)

PA formation south of LOC and IB.

I Corps
Divisions
1. 6th Armored Division (Gujranwala)
2. 17th Infantry Division (Kharian)
3. 37th Infantry Division (Kharian)
Brigades:
1. 8th Independent Armored Brigade (Kharian) (used to be under X- Corps)
2. ?? Signals Brigade (Kharian)

@Gryphon amend or verify

Burrahhhh kharian division will rattle these bastards

 

[Joe Shearer]

In response, PA has deployed:

X Corps
Divisions
1. FCNA (Gilgit)
2. 12th Infantry Division (Murree)
3. 19th Infantry Division (Mangla)
4. 23rd Infantry Division (Jhelum)
5. 34th Light Infantry Division (Chilas) (Units deployed in Kashmir, KPK, Baluchistan)(aka S S D)
Independent Brigades:
1. 111th Independent Infantry Brigade (Rawalpindi)
2. ?? Independent Artillery Brigade (Murree)
3. ?? Signals Brigade (Rawalpindi)

National guard units such as Janbaz and Mujahid are also attached to X-Corps.

PA units South-East of LOC.

XXX Corps
Divisions
1. 8th Infantry Division (Sialkot)
2. 15th Infantry Division (Sialkot)
Independent Brigades:
1. 19th Independent Armored Brigade (Sialkot)
2. 54th Independent Infantry Brigade (Sialkot)
3. ?? Heavy Anti Tank Brigade (Sialkot)
4. ?? Independent Artillery Brigade (Sialkot)
5. ?? Signals Brigade (Sialkot)



PA formation south of LOC and IB.

I Corps
Divisions
1. 6th Armored Division (Gujranwala)
2. 17th Infantry Division (Kharian)
3. 37th Infantry Division (Kharian)
Independent Brigades:
1. 8th Independent Armored Brigade (Kharian) (used to be under X- Corps)
2. ?? Signals Brigade (Kharian)

@Gryphon amend or verify

Of course, it is impossible to draw a neat line and have both forces arrayed exactly opposite each other, but it looks like your orbat (above) runs past our Northern Command into Western Command. Note that I've only included 9 Corps out of Western Command.

Nevertheless, it looks like the PA is heavily concentrated in Sialkot and Kharian, whereas their opposite numbers are echeloned into the Himachal Pradesh hills. A map, a map....

 

[Signalian]

Of course, it is impossible to draw a neat line and have both forces arrayed exactly opposite each other, but it looks like your orbat (above) runs past our Northern Command into Western Command. Note that I've only included 9 Corps out of Western Command.

Nevertheless, it looks like the PA is heavily concentrated in Sialkot and Kharian, whereas their opposite numbers are echeloned into the Himachal Pradesh hills. A map, a map....

yeah gotta put a map up...you can do the honors

Going more south east, PA IV Corps is facing IA II Corps and XI Corps. So yes, IA IX Corps could be poised towards providing depth to J&K territory.

To provide strength and back up to PA X-Corps, especially to FCNA in Gilgit and 12 Inf Div on LOC, PA uses 7 Inf Div and 9 Inf Div out of KPK XI Corps.

GHQ might even use the Indep Armd Bde Grp (Nowshera, KPK) of XI Corps as reserve in case 6th Armd Div is badly mauled by IA Armd formations.

 

[SorryNotSorry]

It is the only way to secure the lives, property, and dignity of Kashmiris.

Kashmiris will rise up en masse, followed by Indian brutality cracking down and murdering them, the whole world will turn against India, and this will allow Pakistan to come in with full international support.

If Khalistan Sikhs rise up at the same time, it will not be possible for the Indian army to enter Kashmir.

China can help Pakistan clear out Indian troops. Sikhs can deal with India using Pakistani arms and support.

Only a handful of men in India are willing to fight for Khalistan today. The loudest voices are out in the West.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Joe Shearer]

yeah gotta put a map up...you can do the honors

Going more south east, PA IV Corps is facing IA II Corps and XI Corps. So yes, IA IX Corps could be poised towards providing depth to J&K territory.

To provide strength and back up to PA X-Corps, especially to FCNA in Gilgit and 12 Inf Div on LOC, PA uses 7 Inf Div and 9 Inf Div out of KPK XI Corps.

GHQ might even use the Indep Armd Bde Grp (Nowshera, KPK) of XI Corps as reserve in case 6th Armd Div is badly mauled by IA Armd formations.

I didn't have this readily at hand, but thanks to you, the position becomes clearer. This is where the missing boots are - just a hop, step and a jump away in Nowshera.

 

[Signalian]

I didn't have this readily at hand, but thanks to you, the position becomes clearer. This is where the missing boots are - just a hop, step and a jump away in Nowshera.

7th Infantry Division from Peshawar XI Corps has operated on LOC, near Chamb in 1965, where as in 1971 it was set to operate with PA 1st Armd Div, never happened. In 1999, it was sent to reinforce 12 Infantry Divisional areas along LOC, almost opposite to kargil.

 

[Joe Shearer]

yeah gotta put a map up...you can do the honors

Going more south east, PA IV Corps is facing IA II Corps and XI Corps. So yes, IA IX Corps could be poised towards providing depth to J&K territory.

To provide strength and back up to PA X-Corps, especially to FCNA in Gilgit and 12 Inf Div on LOC, PA uses 7 Inf Div and 9 Inf Div out of KPK XI Corps.

GHQ might even use the Indep Armd Bde Grp (Nowshera, KPK) of XI Corps as reserve in case 6th Armd Div is badly mauled by IA Armd formations.

And it also looks like XI Corps is a milch cow for eastward facing formations, particularly for X Corps, and just down below, for the Gujranwala based 6 Armoured. Hmm, interesting; so nobody really expects any trouble in the west. That border just helps by providing cantonment areas.

It may not be unfair to point out that, although almost pure infantry, XIV Corps could provide back-up unless the PLA seem to be doing warming up exercises.

7th Infantry Division from Peshawar XI Corps has operated on LOC, near Chamb in 1965, where as in 1971 it was set to operate with PA 1st Armd Div, never happened. In 1999, it was sent to reinforce 12 Infantry Divisional areas along LOC, almost opposite to kargil.

The whole situation is so much clearer after your helpful insights. Thank you very much.

 

[Nilgiri]

I am seeing the Bangladeshis (minus BALs) are happy as they say the Pulwama attack has satisfied them because of fact that India killed 57 BD armies in BD in the fake BDR mutiny incident in 2009.

Thats fine because non-BAL bangladeshis are obviously quite weak and few.

Did BD ever have more than 1 Army?

Each BD soldier is his own army! Get with the program here!

yeah gotta put a map up...you can do the honors

I can do it (when I get a little time)....for small fee of + rating from Joe. I will let @Gryphon add/subtract anything first.

Absolutely enjoyed the convo you two just had. Brought back some nostalgia for me when I mapped out various formations in WW2 theatres.

 

[Signalian]

And it also looks like XI Corps is a milch cow for eastward facing formations, particularly for X Corps, and just down below, for the Gujranwala based 6 Armoured. Hmm, interesting; so nobody really expects any trouble in the west. That border just helps by providing cantonment areas.

It may not be unfair to point out that, although almost pure infantry, XIV Corps could provide back-up unless the PLA seem to be doing warming up exercises.



The whole situation is so much clearer after your helpful insights. Thank you very much.

Go towards south in Pakistan and IX Corps, Quetta, has the same purpose. 33 Inf Div and 41st Inf Div are supposed to reinforce V Corps in Sindh.
In march 1965, a PA Inf Div was sent from Quetta to Rann of Kutch and took part in offensive Ops against Indian Army. I am not sure which Div was it, maybe 8th Infantry Div. Talking of Rann of Kucth, the Tanks were sent from Lahore to reinforce this Inf Div in Rann.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thats fine because non-BAL bangladeshis are obviously quite weak and few.



Each BD soldier is his own army! Get with the program here!



I can do it (when I get a little time)....for small fee of + rating from Joe. I will let @Gryphon add/subtract anything first.

Absolutely enjoyed the convo you two just had. Brought back some nostalgia for me when I mapped out various formations in WW2 theatres.

Deal.

Could you mark Infantry Divisions and Armoured separately?

 

[Nilgiri]

Deal.

Could you mark Infantry Divisions and Armoured separately?

Haha that goes without saying my friend.

 

[Signalian]

Haha that goes without saying my friend.

There has been a movement of IA Armoured Forces near Akhnur in previous years. throw some light on that also. I didnt follow that up. 2 Armd Regts and 2 Mech Inf Bn's were said to have moved there.

 

[Nilgiri]

There has been a movement of IA Armoured Forces near Akhnur in previous years. throw some light on that also. I didnt follow that up. 2 Armd Regts and 2 Mech Inf Bn's were said to have moved there.

I will draw one version out for starters on the best of info we have at that point (in thread)...and we can iterate/correct etc from there (hopefully vibrio, jbgt and gryphon etc...will add their inputs as well).

Will have to first compile all you, Joe and any others contribute here over next few days etc. I plan to do this proper ...it wont be a quickie.