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Retaking Kashmir after 70 years

I will draw one version out for starters on the best of info we have at that point (in thread)...and we can iterate/correct etc from there (hopefully vibrio, jbgt and gryphon etc...will add their inputs as well).

Will have to first compile all you, Joe and any others contribute here over next few days etc. I plan to do this proper :P ...it wont be a quickie.
I posted a few maps in 2017 in this thread, pretty general and simple ones, post # 107, page 8

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...counter-cold-start.485506/page-8#post-9329263
 
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I will draw one version out for starters on the best of info we have at that point (in thread)...and we can iterate/correct etc from there (hopefully vibrio, jbgt and gryphon etc...will add their inputs as well).

Will have to first compile all you, Joe and any others contribute here over next few days etc. I plan to do this proper :P ...it wont be a quickie.


PLEASE improve on @Signalian 's terrible choice of font and point, and spare these 68 year old eyes.

And colour: sheesh, try working out what's in red!
 
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Ok, so you want another Kargil?
1) Pakistan is a nuclear power and has attained parity and surpassed India

2) Pakistan has support of all major powers of the world - US, China, Russia, UK etc.

3) Pakistan has support of the Islamic world

4) Pakistan Airforce has exponentially increased its strength while Indian Airforce has greatly depleted its strength

5) Pakistan military is well fed, equipped & trained while Indian military is ill equipped and is have tough time even finding good food to eat
i don’t think Pakistan has the support of lost oil money.

Seems like some Pakistanis on pdf are engaged in a form of wishful thinking which I find hyperbolic.
 
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PLEASE improve on @Signalian 's terrible choice of font and point, and spare these 68 year old eyes.

And colour: sheesh, try working out what's in red!
Thank you....I wasn't giving a presentation to a GOC, i was making a point regarding armored warfare and yes i'm not proud of fonts in those maps but they make a point and save me from writing long sentences.
 
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It's not gotten any result at all so far, has it? If we can blow up 40 of your kind with no reaction, why not?
Violence begets violence, its only going to be a game of some sort of macabre upmanship while both sides suffer. Why celebrate it?.
 
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The only solution is a Million People March from Rawalpindi to Srinagar and Kashmiri people should be asked to do a similar Million People march from Srinagar to Rawalpindim bring out the green flag and make a declaration for Joining with Pakistan

And any barrier which will come between the brothers should be destroyed like berlin war

  • We need to expose India for what they are conjurers of lies and deceit they have no business over that land or the people who reside there

If India uses force on the Marching people , Pakistan will reply with Force from our side

Pakistan should invite press channel from all the world to cover this unique unification of Kashmiri with Pakistan
 
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Let's suppose we take kashmir from india then what?
india will still be our neighbor and their belligerence won't go away.
 
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11 Corps (HQ Peshawar):
  • 7 Infantry Division - Peshawar
  • 9 Infantry Division - Kohat
No IABG / IMBG.

10 Corps (HQ Rawalpindi):
  • FCNA - Gilgit (Mountain Infantry)
  • 12 Infantry Division - Murree (Mountain Infantry)
  • 23 Infantry Division - Jhelum
Reserve 10 Corps:
  • 34 Light Infantry Division (Special Security Division) - Rawalpindi
  • 19 Infantry Division - Mangla
  • 111 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Rawalpindi
No IABG / IMBG.

30 Corps (HQ Gujranwala; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):
  • 8 Infantry Division - Sialkot
  • 15 Infantry Division - Sialkot
  • 54 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Sialkot
Reserve 30 Corps:
  • 19 IABG - Gujranwala
  • 30 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Lahore
1 Strike Corps (HQ Mangla; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):
  • 6 Armoured Division - Gujranwala
  • 2 Artillery Division - Gujranwala
  • 17 Infantry Division - Kharian
  • 37 Infantry Division - Kharian
  • 8 IABG - Kharian
4 Corps (HQ Lahore; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):
  • 10 Infantry Division - Lahore
  • 11 Infantry Division - Lahore
  • 212 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Chunian
Reserve 4 Corps:
  • 3 IABG - Chunian
12 Corps (HQ Quetta; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):
  • 33 Infantry Division - Quetta
  • 41 Infantry Division - Quetta
No IABG / IMBG.

31 Corps (HQ Bahawalpur; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):
  • 14 Infantry Division - Okara
  • 35 Infantry Division - Bahawalpur
Reserve 31 Corps:
  • HQ 26 Mechanized Division - Bahawalpur (commands 10 IABG - Bahawalpur, 14 IABG - Bahawalpur and 44 IMBG - Bahawalpur)
2 Strike Corps (HQ Multan; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):
  • 1 Armoured Division - Multan
  • 40 Infantry Division - Okara
  • 42 IABG - Multan
5 Corps (HQ Karachi; subordinate to Southern Command, Quetta):
  • 16 Infantry Division - Pano Aqil
  • 18 Infantry Division - Hyderabad
  • 21 Artillery Division - Pano Aqil
Reserve 5 Corps:
  • HQ 25 Mechanized Division - Malir (commands 12 IABG - Malir, 330 IABG - Malir and 31 IMBG - Malir)
  • 2 IABG - Karachi

NOTES:
  • Both Infantry Divisions of 11 Corps heavily involved in COIN, op HQ's established elsewhere.
  • HAT battalions to Corps HQ's & HAT companies / LAT battalions to Divisions are assigned as per operational requirements.
  • IABG's at Nowshera / Khuzdar reported on Wiki only, no evidence these exist.
  • Corps with no Arty Div have Arty Bde (I am unable to identify all these Bdes & their loc).
  • Most Corps have own Air Defence Bde.
 
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It's not gotten any result at all so far, has it? If we can blow up 40 of your kind with no reaction, why not?
Good to know you admit you lot did it. You are only entenching the Indian position. You too will lose soldiers and that's the difference - we won't be celebrating loss of life. To you cowardly attacks are a badge of honor and then you deny you did it.
 
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Let's suppose we take kashmir from india then what?
india will still be our neighbor and their belligerence won't go away.
The border with India is then reduced to half of current size. Dismantle 4-5 Infantry Divisions of Pakistan straightaway, sell the equipment and make new universities and hospitals. Insurgency ends on both sides. Siachen issue gets resolved forever. Deaths of muslims stop occurring on both sides of LOC.
 
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10 Corps (HQ Rawalpindi):
  • FCNA - Gilgit (Mountain Infantry)
  • 12 Infantry Division - Murree (Mountain Infantry)
  • 23 Infantry Division - Jhelum (includes few HAT companies)
Reserve 10 Corps:
  • 34 Light Infantry Division (Special Security Division) - Rawalpindi
  • 19 Infantry Division - Mangla
  • 111 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Rawalpindi
No IABG / IMBG.

30 Corps (HQ Gujranwala; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):
  • 8 Infantry Division - Sialkot
  • 15 Infantry Division - Sialkot
  • 54 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Sialkot
Reserve 30 Corps:
  • 19 IABG - Gujranwala
  • 30 Independent Infantry Brigade Group - Lahore
  • HAT battalion (under Corps HQ)
1 Strike Corps (HQ Mangla; subordinate to Central Command, Kharian):
  • 6 Armoured Division - Gujranwala
  • 2 Artillery Division - Gujranwala
  • 17 Infantry Division - Kharian
  • 37 Infantry Division - Kharian
  • 8 IABG - Kharian
  • HAT battalion (under Corps HQ)

NOTES:
  • Corps with no Arty Div have Arty Bde (I am unable to identify all these Bdes & their loc).
  • Few Corps are supported by Air Defence Divisions, most have own AD Bde.
  • 8 IABG, Kharian was never under HQ 10 Corps. This is incorrect Wiki info.
Remaining 6x Corps, I will post later.

@Signalian @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer

Many thanks. Looking forward to your awesome posts, without denigrating @Signalian for his primary efforts. This is turning out so fruitful.

The border with India is then reduced to half of current size. Dismantle 4-5 Infantry Divisions of Pakistan straightaway, sell the equipment and make new universities and hospitals. Insurgency ends on both sides. Siachen issue gets resolved forever. Deaths of muslims stop occurring on both sides of LOC.

I must be honest.

Leaving aside the morality of the situation that you outline, with the hint implicit that @Mugwop made that this would be voluntary, or semi-involuntary on the part of India, you should be made aware that there is a segment of thought among responsible people that the situation you have suggested will never solve anything.

That there is an interested party in your society that is dependent on the creation of strife and warfare between our two countries for its institutional existence. That you are sounding its death-knell when you talk of dismantling 4 to 5 Infantry Divisions. That you frighten its leadership when you talk about building new universities and hospitals (incidentally, that is precisely what India did commencing 70 years ago, with the difference between her military budget and yours). That you raise to them the grim spectre of progressive reduction to just another institution among a number of other institutions. That from a position of leadership and absolute authority you propose that they should behave like ordinary human beings.

This segment of opinion believes that you will promptly find another cause for war, or for war-like behaviour. Read that as such a cause will be found for you. That besides the deep-rooted desire for dominance over the entire sub-continent that lay behind most of the political impulse that led to the creation of Pakistan in the first place, besides the evocation of a thousand years of rule that ill-educated schoolkids reach back to in their imagining of the situation between the two countries, which they reduce to the situation between two religious communities, that behind the veneer of diplomatic behaviour that your foreign service displays lies the overheated boast of the ghazwa-e-Hind that we hear so often, in perfect rhythm with our own unbalanced rabble mouthing their own slogans of Akhand Bharat, that the aim is not peace, the aim is a reversion to domination, a domination unluckily interrupted by the British interregnum.

Leaving aside other aspects, this part is not one that is likely to disappear from the thinking of Indians. Even peace-loving and hopeful Indians.

Sorry, but there is a credibility deficit.

I posted a few maps in 2017 in this thread, pretty general and simple ones, post # 107, page 8

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...counter-cold-start.485506/page-8#post-9329263

Incidentally, I read through your posts there with great interest. Once again, you have effectively made the point that you made in that brilliant post where you pointed out the pyramid of conversational topics, from glittering pieces of equipment to formations and their value to tactical discussions and battlefield analyses to strategic issues. Only a very, very few will ever survive that climb up the slippery ladder - slippery pyramid??? - and ever bother to discuss higher capabilities or options.
 
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