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'Restricted UNSC prevents small nations' voice to be heard'

No worries mate.. No hard feelings at all in fact it was refreshing to have a intense discussion on the subject in a civil manner without finger pointing and undue accusations even though we didn'nt agree on somethings and did agree on others.. Thats the beauty of forums such as PDF, Exchange of divergent views.. Cheers



Calm down mate.. You might get piles if you keep fuming like this.. " Bugger" is not necessarily a insulting term from my neck of the woods.. Chill have some lassie :-)

I am perfectly calm.And think twice before sit in a public place if you have piles.
But dont pass blanket statement about something that you have restricted knowledge.

The NSG exemption was pushed through primarily because of economic reasons - the potential and promise of India to engage in hundreds of billions in nuclear trade with existing NSG states.

UNSC permanent membership with veto powers for India offers no tangible benefit to anyone, not even Indians (aside from bolstering their insecurities and ego).

Of Course.Economic reason.
First economy then S&T and military.
S&T is almost there and now we starts necessary reform in defence.
And still we didnt buy a single reactor from US.

Fact is when you have a nation that is way powerful than some in P5 ,outside of that circle .P5 cant use its influence against them.
 
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Don't be an a$$ you are talking like a Pakistani. The UN is not a Rambo movie to jump around the world firing out four barreled machine guns

I am showing how weak are P5 aka so called blue eyes people. UN is nothing and can be destroyed with a single stoke of India . Showing them reality.

Since western countries need India to survive. they cant put sanctions. India need to send some tight slap in order to wake them up. No one listen request , only listen dabang.
 
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It took the Second World War to create the five victors who have the veto power.

It will take another World War for change in the veto members.
 
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Nobody could not have put it better

Expect the analytical trolls of different nationalities. They all know that Chinese members will never acknowledge the conditions in China then when it was made a UNSC member in 1971 and that it voted like an American baby from then to 1989 when it was thrown out from its lap by USA due to Tiananmenn massacre. We all know how Chinese Maoists were and are yet so desperate eager to send their families to the relative safety of the West.

China was more legitimate in 1971 than India is today. China inherited veto from ROC in 1971 as legitimate successor, what does India have today? who are you inheriting your veto from? whether china was poor at 1971 or not is irrelevant, because China had veto power since 1945, doesn't matter it's nationalist government or communist government.

So let me lay out the reasons for you,
1)China was one of the big 4 allied powers during WWII, it contributed way more to the victory than India, so it was more legitimate for china to be part of P5 than India in 1945.

2)Since both communist and nationalist(ROC) are considered part of China, as recognized by UN, it is then natural for communist to succeed nationalist after ROC was expelled from UN. So there's no such thing as China got veto in 1971, it was simply passed hand internally from one Chinese government to another Chinese government in 1971.

It is then evident, that India today is still less legitimate than China was back in 1945 or 1971, Germany, Japan and even Brazil should be considered before India.

Don't be an a$$ you are talking like a Pakistani. The UN is not a Rambo movie to jump around the world firing out four barreled machine guns


So you agree that claiming that India has nothing going for it other than population is an incorrect argument? To reiterate when China got the veto in 1971, it was as poor as a church mouse and country of famine where people were selling there own children to feed themselves.
The UN was set up to prevent another world war, so far it has been successful. It is as you say a political organization. So as per you India has insufficient status? What status did China have in 1971? Or indeed what status does Russia really have today? It is an isolated country selling gas and oil at rock bottom prices to keep afloat. It is not even able at this point to protect its own legitimate interests without being sanctioned.

Can you tell me which part if the speech you found so annoying? To me the whole thing seems like normal diplomatic speak. A country works for its own best interest at several fronts at the same time. Diplomatic speeches at the UN does not mean that the indian government is not working on other fronts as well.

One last point, Germany is included in the p5+1 but not Japan, where is the fairness in that ? (Yes, I know you agree with me that the whole thing is totally biased) as far as I can see Germany is included despite two other EU nations already with veto power because they are blonde haired and blue eyed and the Japanese are not because they are black haired and slanty eyed - exactly the same reason why during WW2 German and Italian immigrants in America went about their business while Japanese were rounded up into concentration camps.

Let me repeat my above reasoning....
1)China was one of the big 4 allied powers during WWII, it contributed way more to the victory than India, so it was more legitimate for china to be part of P5 than India in 1945.

2)Since both communist and nationalist(ROC) are considered part of China, as recognized by UN, it is then natural for communist to succeed nationalist after ROC was expelled from UN. So there's no such thing as China got veto in 1971, it was simply passed hand internally from one Chinese government to another Chinese government in 1971.

3. Indian burns women alive for not bringing enough dowry, you have the largest poverty rate in the world today, you have more slaves than any other countries in the world according to World Slave Index. China was even more legitimate back in 1971 than India is today, period.
 
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China was more legitimate in 1971 than India is today. China inherited veto from ROC in 1971 as legitimate successor, what does India have today? who are you inheriting your veto from? whether china was poor at 1971 or not is irrelevant, because China had veto power since 1945, doesn't matter it's nationalist government or communist government.

So let me lay out the reasons for you,
1)China was one of the big 4 allied powers during WWII, it contributed way more to the victory than India, so it was more legitimate for china to be part of P5 than India in 1945.

2)Since both communist and nationalist(ROC) are considered part of China, as recognized by UN, it is then natural for communist to succeed nationalist after ROC was expelled from UN. So there's no such thing as China got veto in 1971, it was simply passed hand internally from one Chinese government to another Chinese government in 1971.

It is then evident, that India today is still less legitimate than China was back in 1945 or 1971, Germany, Japan and even Brazil should be considered before India.

Most importantly, India did not actually exist when the UNSC was created.

Back then that "geographical region" was a part of the British Empire.

And Britain ALREADY had veto power.

Pemanent seats were reserved for the "major independent powers" fighting on the allied side of WW2. They weren't going to give a permanent seat to some part of Britain, when Britain itself already had veto power.
 
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The argument that such and such countries be made permanent members due to population, military power or economic development ignores the basic fact that:

P5 were the five victors of the Second World War. Economic conditions, population etc. were not considered a criteria.
 
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It's already almost impossible to get anything done with 5 veto powers in the UNSC.

Adding even MORE veto powers seems insane, it would make everything exponentially harder than it already is.

Nobody thinks that would make the UNSC more efficient, it's the exact opposite.

Yup thats why we need reform since its so hard to take decisions in the UNSC we should expand it and remove the VETO powers. But then for that we should first expand.
 
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Most importantly, India did not actually exist when the UNSC was created.

Back then that "geographical region" was a part of the British Empire.

And Britain ALREADY had veto power.

Pemanent seats were reserved for the "major independent powers" fighting on the allied side of WW2. They weren't going to give a permanent seat to some part of Britain, when Britain itself already had veto power.
Permanent seats were for big boys then for they'd bleed in the WW2, but now it's a peaceful world, none wants a war. Since we India has a huge population like you do then it's irrational to exclude India or it'd be terrible that 130 crore people won't even have a representative in UNSC.

I am showing how weak are P5 aka so called blue eyes people. UN is nothing and can be destroyed with a single stoke of India . Showing them reality.

Since western countries need India to survive. they cant put sanctions. India need to send some tight slap in order to wake them up. No one listen request , only listen dabang.
Don't make we Indians ashamed here with your stupid words. You must be a Chinese, just see your poor English.

The argument that such and such countries be made permanent members due to population, military power or economic development ignores the basic fact that:

P5 were the five victors of the Second World War. Economic conditions, population etc. were not considered a criteria.
Yeah you're right but see the current situation. What's UN's task? To keep the world in order. Now India is rising and all of you knows this. It's high time to introduce India into UNSC or the power of UNSC will be weakened due to the absence of India. Situation changes as time goes by.

I am perfectly calm.And think twice before sit in a public place if you have piles.
But dont pass blanket statement about something that you have restricted knowledge.



Of Course.Economic reason.
First economy then S&T and military.
S&T is almost there and now we starts necessary reform in defence.
And still we didnt buy a single reactor from US.

Fact is when you have a nation that is way powerful than some in P5 ,outside of that circle .P5 cant use its influence against them.
Sir just ignore trolls. Time is by our side.
 
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I don't think anybody has any disagreement about how the original P5 was selected. They were the winners of WW2 ( an argument can be made for Indian contributions both monetary and personnel, but leave that aside, it does not matter ) .

The question is about the future shape of the UN. Why was the UN set up in the first place? It was meant to regulate conflict between nations and prevent another world war. Can it do that effectively in its current form?

The world since 1945 has changed beyond even the wildest imagination of the founders. One of the reasons the League of Nations collapsed is that the then great powers refused to listen to it. As Mussulini famously said " the league is very well when sparrows shout but no good at all when eagles fall out"

By 2030 the Indian economy will by 2x that of the Uk or France and 3x the size of Russia. As we all know in today's world military advantage, diplomatic clout and technological superiority all flow from the wallet. In such a case, if India is not given a seat but Russia is, what do you think will happen logically? Is India really going to listen to anything coming out of such an unrepresentative body? How are you going to get India's "buy in " for important decisions? In an increasingly inter-related world can you really just ignore what will be the 3rd largest economy and 15% of humanity?

The point I make is that for the UN to remain relevant it needs to be representative of the power structures in the world TODAY not from 1945. It cannot be useful the way it is. If it does not change it will go the way of the league.
 
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I am showing how weak are P5 aka so called blue eyes people. UN is nothing and can be destroyed with a single stoke of India . Showing them reality.

Since western countries need India to survive. they cant put sanctions. India need to send some tight slap in order to wake them up. No one listen request , only listen dabang.
Dear friend, I posted my comment only because I didn't want a troll fest and the whole thread to be derailed. The fact is that the world is getting flatter with every passing year, it is no longer possible for any country to unilaterally destroy anything. Even super duper US of America puts together a coalition and does a lot of back channel diplomacy before attacking even Stone Age Afghanistan or weak long term sanctioned Iraq. There is no place anymore for cowboy adventurism, Iraq, Iran and Pakistan tried it and we can all see the result.

In this co- dependent world not even the most powerful country can take such unilateral decisions.
 
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Most importantly, India did not actually exist when the UNSC was created.

Back then that "geographical region" was a part of the British Empire.

And Britain ALREADY had veto power.

Pemanent seats were reserved for the "major independent powers" fighting on the allied side of WW2. They weren't going to give a permanent seat to some part of Britain, when Britain itself already had veto power.

Yeah that's about the formation of UNSC.

Off topic, have you ever thought about an alternative form of UNSC, the P2 ? Check this out, everything hypothetical, just for amusement!
What If WWII Ended In A Different Way?
 
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The argument that such and such countries be made permanent members due to population, military power or economic development ignores the basic fact that:

P5 were the five victors of the Second World War. Economic conditions, population etc. were not considered a criteria.

I already tried to explain that to most members here invane. Just give it up like me bro and enjoy the show.:pop:
 
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I already tried to explain that to most members here invane. Just give it up like me bro and enjoy the show.:pop:

World has changed and so should UN.

Organization should adapt or get perished in time and that's evolution. British are smart people and start acting like ones.
 
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Settle South China Sea dispute under UN convention: India - The Economic Times
By Sachin Parashar, TNN | 7 Aug, 2015, 11.08AM IST

NEW DELHI: As India seeks to give teeth to its 'Act East' policy, the government on Wednesday asked parties involved in South China Sea (SCS) dispute to learn from the successful arbitration of India's maritime territorial dispute with Bangladesh under United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

China's 9-dash-line claims almost the entire SCS and Beijing continues to maintain that UNCLOS doesn't have the mandate to deal with territorial issues.

That the Narendra Modi government is willing to take up China over the dispute has been evident from the manner in which Modi and President Barack Obama have sought to mention and highlight the issue in Indo-US bilateral documents. The two countries even issued a Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean Region in January this year in which they affirmed the importance of safeguarding maritime security and ensuring freedom of navigation and overflight in the SCS.

Speaking at the 5th East Asia Summit foreign ministers' Meeting in Kuala Lumpur, minister of state for external affairs V K Singh said territorial disputes must be settled through peaceful means "as was done by India and Bangladesh recently using the mechanisms provided under UNCLOS". It must be mentioned here that the verdict by a UN tribunal in the case of that dispute went in favour of Bangladesh. India reacted by saying that it was committed to abiding by the outcome of the process.


Singh expressed hope that all parties to the disputes in the SCS will abide by the guidelines on the implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the region.

"We further support efforts for the early adoption of a Code of Conduct on the South China Sea on the basis of consensus," said Singh.

Foreign ministers of several ASEAN countries have been pushing China for a Code of Conduct in the SCS to prevent an escalation of tension in the region. At least four other countries have competing claims to parts of SCS - Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei.


"In a world of inter-dependence and globalization, there is no option but to follow international laws and norms. India supports freedom of navigation in international waters, including the South China Sea, the right of passage and overflight, unimpeded commerce and access to resources in accordance with principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea," said Singh.
 
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Not all countries have the potential of China. Look at Japan, their economy is stronger than all European countries, but they are not a part of UNSC, same as India.
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But Japan and India have already been in the UNSC

- being represented by their Master US & UK all the times.:rofl:

The country with more poor than the continent of Africa calling members of the P5 "losers"?

Is that supposed to be ironic?
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That happens quite a lot when one deals with Indian beggars :

if you refuse to give money, he will spit on your shoes. :woot:


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Most people on this board are still quite slow to comprehend the following 2 basic and fundamental facts, talking about average IQ! :hitwall:

1. UNSC 5 was, is, and will be in the forseeable future, critically important & useful. They have done a great job so far. UNSC 5 don't give a hoot about your chitchat, but world-wars. UNSC 5 is the only reason that you still live today being able to bullsh!t here on this board instead of being radioactive dust long ago in an all-out worldwide nuclear exchanges.

2. UNSC was formed on a sea of blood, thier enermies' and their own's. Hence UNSC is highly discriminative, rightfully so. You gotta be daydreaming if you fancy just walking in as one of bosses without showing the world how much you're worth - it's blood for blood, fair and square. If you think you have a thicker stick that you can still stand there breathing after terminating any one of UNSC 5, let it known. If no, you can go STFU, oke?
 
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