Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

[Scorpiooo]

The only reason PAF may go for J-10s is to make up numbers;
There is no other logical reason to go for a platform like F-16 or J-10 otherwise.

Any aircraft induction takes years upon years in terms of setting up supply lines, storage facilities,
making up repair and maintenance facilities, man power etc. By the time PAF may incur the above
technology gap may take the scenario some place else.

Lets assume (5-7) years should today the contract is signed. This means PAF has bet on J-10.
Come 2026 / 2027 the sensor technology, and combat requirements may have been rewritten
considering how fast things are changing.

Thus, my assertion that PAF most probably would like to focus on keeping up with the technology train.

Regards.


That statement is not correct.
Canards have multiple roles in different aircraft.
Canard maybe used as a control surface to make up what a pure delta lacks.
The elevon is not enough for sudden reactions.

Sometimes a canard and an elevators are both present on an aircraft (Sukhoi).
Sometimes a canard is used only to enhance the aerodynamic characteristics of the delta wing (late Mirage) or the B1B Lancer, where the fixed canard was added only improve handling at low altitudes.

Regards.

Dont underestimate Chinese speed, if J10C order is done, then 2 to 3 sqr will not take more then 2 years (at max)

 

[siegecrossbow]

Credible??

View attachment 760974

HE is saying that the sixth batch is the final batch of J10s that will ever get produced and that they are not intended for PLAAF. @mdmm

 

[KaiserX]

The only reason PAF may go for J-10s is to make up numbers;
There is no other logical reason to go for a platform like F-16 or J-10 otherwise.

Any aircraft induction takes years upon years in terms of setting up supply lines, storage facilities,
making up repair and maintenance facilities, man power etc. By the time PAF may incur the above
technology gap may take the scenario some place else.

Lets assume (5-7) years should today the contract is signed. This means PAF has bet on J-10.
Come 2026 / 2027 the sensor technology, and combat requirements may have been rewritten
considering how fast things are changing.

Thus, my assertion that PAF most probably would like to focus on keeping up with the technology train.

Regards.


That statement is not correct.
Canards have multiple roles in different aircraft.
Canard maybe used as a control surface to make up what a pure delta lacks.
The elevon is not enough for sudden reactions.

Sometimes a canard and an elevators are both present on an aircraft (Sukhoi).
Sometimes a canard is used only to enhance the aerodynamic characteristics of the delta wing (late Mirage) or the B1B Lancer, where the fixed canard was added only improve handling at low altitudes.

Regards.

No No No. The first 36 are on an emergency track basis. They will arrive by end of this year. Enough for 2 squadrons. Much of the infrastructure built for JF-17s and supply lines can be used for the J-10C. Dont forget China has a huge supply line and whatever supply would come from them regardless.

Supply line constraints for the j-10 that you argued would only be valid if Pakistan were to produce its own parts or have to buy from a unreliable supplier....

The only reason PAF may go for J-10s is to make up numbers;
There is no other logical reason to go for a platform like F-16 or J-10 otherwise.

Any aircraft induction takes years upon years in terms of setting up supply lines, storage facilities,
making up repair and maintenance facilities, man power etc. By the time PAF may incur the above
technology gap may take the scenario some place else.

Lets assume (5-7) years should today the contract is signed. This means PAF has bet on J-10.
Come 2026 / 2027 the sensor technology, and combat requirements may have been rewritten
considering how fast things are changing.

Thus, my assertion that PAF most probably would like to focus on keeping up with the technology train.

Regards.


That statement is not correct.
Canards have multiple roles in different aircraft.
Canard maybe used as a control surface to make up what a pure delta lacks.
The elevon is not enough for sudden reactions.

Sometimes a canard and an elevators are both present on an aircraft (Sukhoi).
Sometimes a canard is used only to enhance the aerodynamic characteristics of the delta wing (late Mirage) or the B1B Lancer, where the fixed canard was added only improve handling at low altitudes.

Regards.

Not just the numbers but also allows the PAF to gain access to the PL-15 long range BVR missile and key technologies such as a longer range AESA radar than the one in the JF17B3. So capability increase is also there.

PAF doesnt have to replace obsolete aircraft number by number. 50 J-10CE are enough to replace 75 Mirage 5s....

 

[White and Green with M/S]

They will arrive by end of this year.

some tweets from random people doesn't prove any things for me, unless govt or PAF confirm it

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I thought it's a tacit gesture from China not to export any jets of Flanker design

If Russia do not have any objection on China to sell J 11s to third party then why China are not already exported J11s to other countries Pakistan badly needs a DEEP STRIKE JET, So why not China sold J16 to us??

 

[White and Green with M/S]

the one of the J-20 it will never be a 5th gen aircraft

Are you trying to say that J20 is not a STEALTH JET???

 

[White and Green with M/S]

If China decides to sell J-11 or J-16, what will the Russians do? They can't do anything.China is not Ukraine. Russia does not have enough leverage to punish China economically or militarily.

The biggest problem with selling J-11 and J-16 is that the Russians will blacklist China, and not supply other weapons to China in the future.

Think logically dude, J11s/J16s are the design of based on Russian/Soviet FLANKER, HENCE THESE (J11/J16) ARE THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OF RUSSIA,IF RUSSIA HAS NO OJECTION WHY CHINA DIDN'T EXPORT J11/J16 TO ANOTHER COUNTRY SO FAR???, PLEASE DO EXPLAIN

 

[Muhammad Omar]

HE is saying that the sixth batch is the final batch of J10s that will ever get produced and that they are not intended for PLAAF. @mdmm

Means those will be for PAF?? How many aircraft does 1 batch consist of??

 

[nomi007]

No, No, No ...




So in summary I corrected your post:

As such again, why should a barely visible "helmet mount sight system validate any point that the PAF does not need new Chinese fighter?
View attachment 757488View attachment 757489View attachment 757490
Based on all above, the JF-17bk-03 NOT much more advance than J-10C and in no way a hybrid of J-10C and J-20. Yes, it has MAWS ans like the J-10C the same weapon package of J-20, which has long been confirmed on J-10C. And even if the helmet of JF-17C resemblance the one of the J-20 it will never be a 5th gen aircraft.

But still my point is why not a fifth gen fighter for PAF rather than a 4th fighter.

 

[NA71]

some tweets from random people doesn't prove any things for me, unless govt or PAF confirm it

What about the possibility that these random tweets are actually from PAF guys.... Hybrid info game

 

[ziaulislam]

Finally someone agreeing with me. Yes please for GOD sake retire Mirages and F-7. They are way old. Secondly we need a jet which can do BVR fights but also we also need a jet which carries out strikes deep into Indian territory like hitting Mumbai and Bengaluru and Goa and other cities in India.

F7 needs to go yesterday

The only thing mirages are good at are for strageic stand off raad missles firing /or long range stand off weapon firing

Otherwise they will become a turkeyshoot

 

[CIA Mole]

F7 needs to go yesterday

The only thing mirages are good at are for strageic stand off raad missles firing /or long range stand off weapon firing

Otherwise they will become a turkeyshoot

maybe agains IAF it is enough

or we can wait till they crash all their rafales

 

[Deino]

But still my point is why not a fifth gen fighter for PAF rather than a 4th fighter.

Since at lest it seems as if the PAF wants something NOW and for Paksitan no 5th generation type is available now.

 

[Incog_nito]

Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

June-22nd-2021




Chinese J-10C with PL-10 and PL-15 Missiles

The Pakistani Air Force’s combat jet acquisitions for over a decade have centred around the JF-17 Thunder fighter program, which has been pursued jointly with China and has seen the country acquire fighters both from Chinese production lines and from those located in Pakistan itself. Before the JF-17, Pakistan’s Air Force was comprised primarily of ‘very light’ third generation fighters and attack jets such as the J-7, Mirage III, Mirage 5 and Q-5, with a single elite squadron comprised of slightly heavier but still lightweight fourth generation F-16A/B Fighting Falcons. While the JF-17 has allowed Pakistan to replace the pre-fourth generation jets in its fleet with a ‘very light’ fourth generation fighter, which although in many ways more sophisticated than the F-16 has a much smaller engine and much lower operational cost, the JF-17 is not expected to replace the F-16 itself in service. Pakistan’s F-16 fleet is fast ageing, however, with the large majority comprised of F-16A/B fighters acquired in the early 1980s. This old F-16 variant has been retired by the majority of countries, with Egypt and Israel recently retiring their fleets, and only Taiwan and Venezuela expected to continue using them due to an inability to procure replacements.

Pakistani Air Force F-16 Leads Mirage III and JF-17

Pakistan was the third country in the world to field the F-16 after the United States and Israel, and has upgraded the fighters over time including integrating modern AIM-120C air to air missiles onto them. A number of factors such as metal fatigue, however, mean that operational costs will only continue to rise and there will be growing pressure to retire the aircraft in favour of a more modern fighter - likely a lightweight or medium weight aircraft which will be larger and more capable than the JF-17. When Pakistan does so it will likely replace the jets with a non-American fighter class, as the U.S. is highly unlikely to offer a more capable aircraft such as the F-18E or F-35A. Although some unverified reports have indicated that Pakistan could consider purchasing MiG-35 fighters from Russia, this is unlikely due to Russia’s close defence ties with India, and the fact that India already operates MiG-29UPG jets which are in many ways similar, albeit much less capable, than the MiG-35. As such the most likely options are either that Pakistan will wait until its fifth generation Project AZM program being pursued with China can produce fighters, or that it will purchase Chinese J-10C fighter jets. The J-10C has notably been deployed to Pakistan in the past for joint training exercises, and reportedly made a very strong impression due to its advanced capabilities.

Chinese J-10C Fighter

The J-10C entered service from 2018, and like the F-16 it is a single engine lightweight fighter. Having been designed several decades after the F-16, the J-10 is a much more advanced design boasting advantages in almost all parameters, including a higher speed, lower radar cross section and much greater manoeuvrability. The J-10C is the latest and most capable J-10 variant, and uses thrust vectoring engines for enhanced manoeuvrability - something no Western fighter other than the F-22 does. It benefits from stealth coatings for improved survivability. The aircraft uses a modern AESA radar paired with some of the world’s most capable air to air missiles, the PL-15 and PL-10, the former which is one of just two in the world confirmed to use an AESA radar for guidance. These missiles will also be deployed by upcoming improved variants of the JF-17.

J-10C Equipped for Air Defence Suppression with YJ-91 and PL-10 Missiles

The J-10C would provide Pakistan with by far the most capable combat jet in its fleet, and benefits from a much lower operational cost and lower maintenance needs than the ageing F-16A airframes. Its access to YJ-91 cruise missiles provides much a much more dangerous air to ground capability than any Pakistani fighter. With the J-10C having reportedly proven capable of outperforming heavyweight Russian jets from the Flanker family, due largely to its more advanced radar and missiles, the Chinese-built fighter would provide an effective means of countering India’s most dangerous fighter class the Su-30MKI. A Pakistani J-10C purchase remains by far the most likely option should the country look to acquire new combat jets other than the JF-17, with China potentially providing the aircraft on highly favorable terms due to the close strategic partnership between the two countries. At least until the F-35 moves beyond its current very limited initial operating capability to eventually become fully operational, the J-10C will be considered the world’s most capable single engine fighter in overall performance.

Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs? (militarywatchmagazine.com)

I guess PAF is quite interested in replacing F-16s from the fleet and J-10s are the best options.

If not wrong 18 F-16s Block-52s can easily be sold to any operators and more J-10C/Ds can easily be bought.

Will PAF going to move the F-16s Block-15s to Southern bases?

 

[Scorpiooo]

I guess PAF is quite interested in replacing F-16s from the fleet and J-10s are the best options.

If not wrong 18 F-16s Block-52s can easily be sold to any operators and more J-10C/Ds can easily be bought.

Will PAF going to move the F-16s Block-15s to Southern bases?

F16s are not going out, PAF keep them flying till there's last airframe life