Replacement of Pakistan Army's G-3 Rifles.

[ahmed_naj]

Does not suite the future battlefield where engagement will be dynamic and from even shorter distances.
You would need a rifle that puts a descent amount of fire power, which the match grade 5.56x45mm ss109 (Mk 262) does and more importantly is suited for rapid and precise engagement under extreme conditions.
(Backside of the mk262 is the decrease in hard-target/barrier penetration.)

well, that again depends on the type of warfare, in CQB that would be the case but 5.56 weapons lack effective range. I personally think that pak army is doing the right thing sticking with the G3 and complimenting them with the type 56s in anti-terror ops. I hope they stick with 7.62x51 for future rifles, I hope its the HK 417 however I am pretty interested in what's gonna come out from Türkiye (my Turkish friend always tell me to pronounce it like this ) aswell, because the HK's Gas piston technology is very reliable.

 

[Canaan]

well, that again depends on the type of warfare, in CQB that would be the case but 5.56 weapons lack effective range. I personally think that pak army is doing the right thing sticking with the G3 and complimenting them with the type 56s in anti-terror ops. I hope they stick with 7.62x51 for future rifles, I hope its the HK 417 however I am pretty interested in what's gonna come out from Türkiye (my Turkish friend always tell me to pronounce it like this ) aswell, because the HK's Gas piston technology is very reliable.

you are right, but research shows that war is moving into cities and hence the chance of CQB engagement is growing.
Actually the US is currently having the same discussion, and some hint a intermediate caliber might be the solution, where you have the 6.8 SPC vs the 6.5 grendel. The first, has more stopping power against targets without body armor, while the last has better range, accuracy (out to a 1000 yard) and will handle targets with body armor better.

 

[Hobo]

Pakistan should switch to a better assault rifle. If not the M4 which is an awesome weapon then maybe one of the newer guns. and the standard machine gun in use by the army is a derivative of the MG-42 used by the Wermacht in WW2!!! They should upgrade that as well

 

[Saleem]

Workhorse rifle 'failing US troops in Afghanistan'The US military thinks it may have got one of the basics wrong: its guns are not good enough. A US Army study found that the M-4 rifle, the workhorse weapon of America's troops, is ineffective at ranges of more then 300m because bullets lose the velocity necessary to kill an enemy.

Although the dense vegetation and warrens of mud-packed houses in parts of southern Afghanistan lend themselves to close-range fighting, there are also many battles where Taliban fighters make use of the heavier calibre of their AK-47s to ambush Nato and Afghan soldiers from afar.......

Workhorse rifle 'failing US troops in Afghanistan' - Asia, World - The Independent

 

[Irfan Baloch]

5.56 means the person you hit aint going to be down after getting hit
its stopping power is lowers
pakistan army is fighting a very determined enemy
if if injured he is going to fight back till death
which means 5.56 aint the best caliber which means 7.62 is better
BESIDE USA AND NATO IS GOING TO SHIFT TOWARDS 6.8MM cause 5.56 AINT GOOD ENOUGH
beside M4 has a serious jamming proble

dont under esitmate 5.5mm surely you dont have a military background
5.5 mm is a bigger killer than 7.62mm
when introduced in Vietrnam war it was the most feared weapon by the Vietkong because of its accuracy.

look at the entry and exit holes of 5.56mm I dont think any Talib or a secterian terrorist will be fighting anymore after being hit with an assault rifle round. yes 7.62 is bigger but 5.56 does the same job and is more accurate.
I would rather use a weapon where I am sure about hitting the enemy than worrying about my shoulder & missing him.

you point about 6.8M is a valid one but is for specific situations in special operations.

my point is when an aimed shot of 5.56mm will hit the target on the head & chest it wont really matter if it was smaller than the 7.62mm

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@Irfan baloch.....sir i beg to differ in a war situation soldiers will be facing well protected soldiers who would be wearing bullet proof vests.(dont know if its a standard issue in indian army) and in case of taliban and other terrorists these might be effective.....
By my info.....Pak army is already replacing its 9MM MP5A5s with AK series used in CQB.
And there are plans to change to 5.mm in future,possiably with the PK-08 riffle under going testing with special forces of our country.
Or maybe go for 7.62mm rifle from other country but for now on G3A3s and AK series for CBQ are confirmed news.
Thanks

 

[Saleem]

The future of the standard issue infantry rifle used by American troops in Afghanistan is under review amid concerns that it is the wrong weapon for the job.

With its light bullets the M4 rifle lacks sufficient velocity and killing power in long-range firefights, leaving US troops outgunned by the Taleban and their AK47 Kalashnikovs and the old Russian SVD sniper rifle.

British Forces face the same dilemma but the Ministry of Defence said yesterday that there was no plan to review the SA80A2 rifle, which fires the same Nato 5.56mm calibre rounds as its US counterpart. “We constantly review all of our capabilities,” a spokesman said.

However, Britain has followed the US in investing in 400 new larger-calibre Sharpshooter rifles, which use a heavier 7.62mm round, and are effective at longer ranges. The weapon is expected to be deployed in Afghanistan, alongside the standard rifle, by the end of the month.

Americans outgunned by Taleban’s AK47s - Times Online

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan baloch.....sir i beg to differ in a war situation soldiers will be facing well protected soldiers who would be wearing bullet proof vests.(dont know if its a standard issue in indian army) and in case of taliban and other terrorists these might be effective.....
By my info.....Pak army is already replacing its 9MM MP5A5s with AK series used in CQB.
And there are plans to change to 5.mm in future,possiably with the PK-08 riffle under going testing with special forces of our country.
Or maybe go for 7.62mm rifle from other country but for now on G3A3s and AK series for CBQ are confirmed news.
Thanks

our G3 looses out on two main counts that I think matter the most and you mentioned them
range and Muzzle velocity (for the knockback punch to the target)

G3 range 400 M
velocity 800 m/s

M4 Range 500 M
velocity 850 to 900 M/s

all I am after is less bulky & less shoulder shattering rifle that can take out the enemy regardless of the size of the round.

I am an ok shooter (after using old 303s G3 recoil was just like a pat )& my cousin who is currently deployed in Balochistan can take out a brick at maximum possible eyesight range with a G3 but there are not many who can do that.
I mean just look at the footage of our soldiers firing, they are alomst thrown back by the recoil.

I hope something good comes out if the deceison is made

regards

 

[MenOfHonor]

our G3 looses out on two main counts that I think matter the most and you mentioned them
range and Muzzle velocity (for the knockback punch to the target)

G3 range 400 M
velocity 800 m/s

M4 Range 500 M
velocity 850 to 900 M/s

all I am after is less bulky & less shoulder shattering rifle that can take out the enemy regardless of the size of the round.

I am an ok shooter (after using old 303s G3 recoil was just like a pat )& my cousin who is currently deployed in Balochistan can take out a brick at maximum possible eyesight range with a G3 but there are not many who can do that.
I mean just look at the footage of our soldiers firing, they are alomst thrown back by the recoil.

I hope something good comes out if the deceison is made

regards

hope the army can change the Pak Arm forces rifles to either HK417 or a 6.8mm calibre rifle soon. fingers crossed

 

[Super Falcon]

i think G 36 will be good for pakistan army to replace our MP 5 and for G 3 i think their are two weapons can take over our G 3 UK or french made gun would be good specially famas

 

[Super Falcon]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGwbH738s2o&feature=related[/[ame="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsgstaO18jY"]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsgstaO18jYURL]

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjMH94PuT_I&feature=related

 

[Super Falcon]

HK 416 is the best option for G 3 and for MP 5 the best option is HK G 36

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJPPO-5cziQ&feature=related

 

[smestarz]

I am reading the arguements and would like to comment as follows

Firstly 5.56mm vs 7.62
5.56 is light and carry more bullets etc, that arguement is really good, but there have been instances where a person shot with 5.56 mm has walked. Which is not the same in case of 7.62 mm. You are hit and you stayed hit.
If as someone said, the battle distance is 1500 metres then 5.56 and 7.62 are ineffective and you might best go in for 12.7 or 50 cal rifles
Most battlefield ranges are 400 m (take it to 700 mts)
7.62 has an hitting power and stopping power, 5.56mm has hitting power and not stopping power. If have to be stopped then should be hit accurately. So, you do not need an auto, so whats wrong with G3

HK416 and HK 417 are latest and should be considered (if pakistan army can get proposals from this)

M4 is a good design and well developed. But why not go for something better? like say nicely developed bullpup design? There are many available. Even singapore has developed one,

So considering you want to hit targets and more bullets 5.56 is answer
If you want good stopping power 7.62mm is the answer

Steyr AUG might not be able to take a 7.62 mm. the rifle was developed around 5.56 mm cartrige and there is chance that if chambered with 7.62, it might not be balanced/

cheers

 

[Dr.Evil]

Pak Should go for a completely Indigenous product, Pak has suffcient technological and Industrial base.

 

[Arjun MBT]

Go for POF eye special-purpose weapon, its a Kick A$$ Stuff