Remembrance of Muharram , the days of sorrow and grief

[laiqs@mi]

The extreme sorrow displayed by certain sects is debatable.
But why did the prophet recall Khadija(RA) throughout the years? Aisha(RA) recounted this on many occasions.
Sorrow is not prohibited, wailing about it is. You may remember a relative, shed a tear because you miss him..but you may not create a ruckus about it.

Islam was completed, but if you misunderstand the completion.. if you not go through the prophet's life again and again which is the practical demonstration of Islam.. then you may get trapped into misunderstanding and end up as a fountain of Shirk and Bidah accusations.
And to accuse a Muslim of Shirk and Bidah without fully understanding the topic is tantamount to murder..
So its best we not comment too much on mourning where the prophets family is concerned since we may end up mistaking reverence for mourning in our quest to enforce " the correct version".
Certain practices I find offensive on Muharram by other sects.. and it may be vice versa..
to drag it down to petty discourse and ignore what is still a sacred day from what our prophet would practice and a day where there was a supreme sacrifice given by a member of the prophets family and we are inviting trouble upon ourselves.
Observe whatever you will, be it a Yazidi view, a Ahle-Tashi View, A Sufi View.. or whatever...and hold your peace.

i am sory again my english is not good.

merey kehny ka matlab matam say tha. gham to ho sakta hai no doubt.
laikin laikin .... agar matam ko aur sahaba karam ko galian sawab ke niat say de jain to yeh kahan say theak hai??
main us ko keh raha tha k yeh ghalat hai.

 

[raptor22]

Brother this will be my last post on this thread so I want you to ponder what I write. Listen despite all you have written you have to wonder why didn't Hazrat Ali (RA) speak up against the rules of Abu Bakr (RA), Usman (RA), or Umar (RA)?? Why did he not just refuse to speak up against them but also accepted their leadership?? If he had a problem with the Caliphate why did he not try to correct it when he was appointed Caliph? Why didn't Imam Hassan (RA) after taking over following his father not do so?? The answer is twofold, one they accepted the Caliphate as legitimate, and two they did not want to create Fitna among the believers or shed any unnecessary blood. So why did people split off into another sect and breakup the unity of the believers when Hazrat ALI (RA) and both of his sons (RA) who you guys revere never did so themselves???? Perhaps the most important question, why do we still quarrel about this 1000 years after the fact???

1

Even the companions did not all agree that all these four individuals are the legitimate successors of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Muslims agree that the caliphate of Abu Bakr came through election by a limited number of people and was a surprise for all other companions. By limited, I mean, a majority of the prominent companions of prophet had no knowledge of this election. Ali, Ibn Abbas, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Salman al-Farsi, Abu Dhar, Ammar Ibn Yasir, Miqdad, Abdurrahman Ibn Owf were among those who were not consulted or even informed of. Even Umar confessed to the fact that the election of Abu Bakr was without consultation of Muslims. (See sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817)​

2

Al-Bukhari narrated:

Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar is agreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."

Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817​

3

They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, "I will not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali." When this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, "Hit him with a stone and seize the sword." It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling them that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.

Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v9, pp 188-189​

4

Now let us see what Umar did on those days. Sunni historians reported that:

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:
"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni References:
- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120
- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325
- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975
- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20
- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Also:

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out:
"By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him."

Sunni Reference: History of Tabari, English version, v9, pp 186-187

In the footnotes of the same page (p187) in the English version of the
History of al-Tabari the translator has commented:

Although the timing is not clear, it seems that Ali and his group came to know about Saqifa after what had happened there. At this point, his supporters gathered in Fatimah's house. Abu Bakr and Umar, fully aware of Ali's claims and fearing a serious threat from his supporters, summoned him to the mosque to swear the oath of allegiance. Ali refused, and so the house was surrounded by an armed band led by Abu Bakr and Umar, who threatened to set it on fire if Ali and his supporters refused to come out and swear allegiance to Abu Bakr. The scene grew violent and Fatimah was furious.

(See Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri in his , v1, pp 582-586; Tarikh Ya'qubi,
v2, p116; al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20).​

5.

Everybody came out of the house except Imam Ali (AS), who said: "I have sworn to remain home until I collect the Quran." Umar refused but Lady Fatimah's remonstration caused him to return. He instigated Abu Bakr to pursue the matter, and he send Qunfuz (his slave) several times but
received a negative reply each time. Ultimately, Umar went with a group of people to the Fatimah's house. When she heard their voice, she cried loudly; "O father, O Messenger of Allah, how are Umar Ibn al-Khattab and Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah treating us after you and how do they meet us."

The Sunni scholars, Ahmad Ibn Abdul Aziz al-Jawhari in his book 'Saqifah',
Abu Waleed Muhibbuddin Mohammad al-Shahnah al-Hanafi in his book 'Rawdhat
al-Manadhir Fi Akhbaar al-Awayil wal-Aawaakhir', Ibn Abil Hadid in his book
'Sharh al-Nahj', and others have reported the events to the same effect.​

6.

Also refer to the esteemed Sunni historian Abul Hasan, Ali Ibn al-Husain al-Mas'udi who in his book 'Isbaat al-Wasiyyah' describes the events in detail and reports that: "They surrounded Ali (AS) and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed the leader of all women (Hadhrat Fatimah (AS)) between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months)."

Salahuddin Khalil al-Safadi another Sunni scholar in his book 'Waafi al-Wafiyyaat' under the letter 'A' while recording the view of Ibrahim Ibn Sayyar Ibn Hani al-Basri, well-known as Nidhaam quotes him to have said:
"On the day of 'Bay'aat' (paying allegiance), Umar hit Fatimah (AS) on the stomach such that child in her womb died."

Why do you think an 18 year old young lady was forced to walk with the help of a walking-stick? Unbelieveable acts of cruelty and oppression had led Hadhrat Fatimah al-Zahra (AS) to lament: "Such calamities have visited me that had they descended on the day it would have darkened
it." She fell into bed till she was martyred as a results of these calamities and injuries while she was just eighteen years old!

During her last days, when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Imam Ali (AS) to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah (AS), as quoted by Ibn Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic
declaration that one who displeases Fatimah (AS) has displeased the Prophet and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF) I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14).\​

Fatima, Mother of her father, Lord of the women of the worlds, the one who the Prophet would give his place to and rise in respect to, and said: who angers her angers me, who makes her happy makes me happy, he would take permission before entering her house and giving salaam to the ahlul bait at her door. So high was her status that even the Angel of Death took permission to enter her home.

 

[KingMamba]

1

Even the companions did not all agree that all these four individuals are the legitimate successors of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Muslims agree that the caliphate of Abu Bakr came through election by a limited number of people and was a surprise for all other companions. By limited, I mean, a majority of the prominent companions of prophet had no knowledge of this election. Ali, Ibn Abbas, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Salman al-Farsi, Abu Dhar, Ammar Ibn Yasir, Miqdad, Abdurrahman Ibn Owf were among those who were not consulted or even informed of. Even Umar confessed to the fact that the election of Abu Bakr was without consultation of Muslims. (See sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817)​

2

Al-Bukhari narrated:

Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar is agreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."

Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817​

3

They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, "I will not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali." When this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, "Hit him with a stone and seize the sword." It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling them that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.

Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v9, pp 188-189​

4

Now let us see what Umar did on those days. Sunni historians reported that:

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:
"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni References:
- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120
- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325
- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975
- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20
- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Also:

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out:
"By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him."

Sunni Reference: History of Tabari, English version, v9, pp 186-187

In the footnotes of the same page (p187) in the English version of the
History of al-Tabari the translator has commented:

Although the timing is not clear, it seems that Ali and his group came to know about Saqifa after what had happened there. At this point, his supporters gathered in Fatimah's house. Abu Bakr and Umar, fully aware of Ali's claims and fearing a serious threat from his supporters, summoned him to the mosque to swear the oath of allegiance. Ali refused, and so the house was surrounded by an armed band led by Abu Bakr and Umar, who threatened to set it on fire if Ali and his supporters refused to come out and swear allegiance to Abu Bakr. The scene grew violent and Fatimah was furious.

(See Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri in his , v1, pp 582-586; Tarikh Ya'qubi,
v2, p116; al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20).​

5.

Everybody came out of the house except Imam Ali (AS), who said: "I have sworn to remain home until I collect the Quran." Umar refused but Lady Fatimah's remonstration caused him to return. He instigated Abu Bakr to pursue the matter, and he send Qunfuz (his slave) several times but
received a negative reply each time. Ultimately, Umar went with a group of people to the Fatimah's house. When she heard their voice, she cried loudly; "O father, O Messenger of Allah, how are Umar Ibn al-Khattab and Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah treating us after you and how do they meet us."

The Sunni scholars, Ahmad Ibn Abdul Aziz al-Jawhari in his book 'Saqifah',
Abu Waleed Muhibbuddin Mohammad al-Shahnah al-Hanafi in his book 'Rawdhat
al-Manadhir Fi Akhbaar al-Awayil wal-Aawaakhir', Ibn Abil Hadid in his book
'Sharh al-Nahj', and others have reported the events to the same effect.​

6.

Also refer to the esteemed Sunni historian Abul Hasan, Ali Ibn al-Husain al-Mas'udi who in his book 'Isbaat al-Wasiyyah' describes the events in detail and reports that: "They surrounded Ali (AS) and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed the leader of all women (Hadhrat Fatimah (AS)) between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months)."

Salahuddin Khalil al-Safadi another Sunni scholar in his book 'Waafi al-Wafiyyaat' under the letter 'A' while recording the view of Ibrahim Ibn Sayyar Ibn Hani al-Basri, well-known as Nidhaam quotes him to have said:
"On the day of 'Bay'aat' (paying allegiance), Umar hit Fatimah (AS) on the stomach such that child in her womb died."

Why do you think an 18 year old young lady was forced to walk with the help of a walking-stick? Unbelieveable acts of cruelty and oppression had led Hadhrat Fatimah al-Zahra (AS) to lament: "Such calamities have visited me that had they descended on the day it would have darkened
it." She fell into bed till she was martyred as a results of these calamities and injuries while she was just eighteen years old!

During her last days, when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Imam Ali (AS) to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah (AS), as quoted by Ibn Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic
declaration that one who displeases Fatimah (AS) has displeased the Prophet and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF) I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14).\​

Fatima, Mother of her father, Lord of the women of the worlds, the one who the Prophet would give his place to and rise in respect to, and said: who angers her angers me, who makes her happy makes me happy, he would take permission before entering her house and giving salaam to the ahlul bait at her door. So high was her status that even the Angel of Death took permission to enter her home.

Whatever injustices were done they will be answered by Allah on the day of judgement. It is not our concern to fight over this 1000 years after the fact rather we should forgive one another and move forward to forge a better future for all Muslims. There is no such thing as Sunni-Shia, there is only la ilaha illela Allahu, Muhammad ur-rasul Ullah. Accept this and let us all move on so we can create a better society.

 

[raptor22]

Whatever injustices were done they will be answered by Allah on the day of judgement. It is not our concern to fight over this 1000 years after the fact rather we should forgive one another and move forward to forge a better future for all Muslims. There is no such thing as Sunni-Shia, there is only la ilaha illela Allahu, Muhammad ur-rasul Ullah. Accept this and let us all move on so we can create a better society.

Oh my God , you mean that you wanna obey someone who did such a thing ? everything after this moment that I'm writing is history . should we forget it ? why do we read history ? I'm talking about the path that God has shown us towards the salvation if you want to close your eyes on truth and be happy with the present time, Ok go on no one will restrain you ...but history is our beacon like it or not who ever forgets the history would get fooled easily .You ask me to listen to the God and his prophet ... that is what I''m trying to do ...


by the way as I said I don't want to discuss about this matter anymore it was you and the other guys who quoted my previous post , I respect your Ideas and surly God is the one who will judge about us . I created this thread as remembrance of Muharram nothing else but over a night it become 4 pages what I didn't want. But when I noticed someone are comparing the grandson of prophet with grandson of Abosofian I couldn't stand anymore and started defending prophet and his family then it turned to what we witness now.

 

[KingMamba]

.Oh my God , you mean that you wanna obey someone who did such a thing ? everything after this moment that I'm writing is history . should we forget it ? why do we read history ? I'm talking about the path that God has shown us towards the salvation if you want to close your eyes on truth and be happy with present time ok go on no one restrain you ...but history is our beacon like it or not who ever forgets his history would get fooled easily .

You ask me to listen to the God and his prophet ... that is what I''m trying to do ...


by the way as I said I don't want to discuss about this matter anymore it was you and the other guys who quoted my previous post , I respect your Ideas and surly God is the one who will judge about us .

Lmao yes we can read history and agree that injustices were done so why do we still bicker about it though?? Very well do not answer this post then I must have missed what you wrote.

 

[raptor22]

Lmao yes we can read history and agree that injustices were done so why do we still bicker about it though?? Very well do not answer this post then I must have missed what you wrote.

Dear pal , can you remember your words in your previous post :

Brother this will be my last post on this thread so I want you to ponder what I write. Listen despite all you have written you have to wonder why didn't Hazrat Ali (RA) speak up against the rules of Abu Bakr (RA), Usman (RA), or Umar (RA)?? Why did he not just refuse to speak up against them but also accepted their leadership?? If he had a problem with the Caliphate why did he not try to correct it when he was appointed Caliph? Why didn't Imam Hassan (RA) after taking over following his father not do so?? The answer is twofold, one they accepted the Caliphate as legitimate, and two they did not want to create Fitna among the believers or shed any unnecessary blood. So why did people split off into another sect and breakup the unity of the believers when Hazrat ALI (RA) and both of his sons (RA) who you guys revere never did so themselves???? Perhaps the most important question, why do we still quarrel about this 1000 years after the fact???

And my post was your answer , You asked me something about history and I replied it by history .... that's it ....you asked Why did he not just refuse to speak up against them but also accepted their leadership?? and I said you are wrong , he did ... that's why you need to read the history .

 

[Salik]

1

Even the companions did not all agree that all these four individuals are the legitimate successors of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Muslims agree that the caliphate of Abu Bakr came through election by a limited number of people and was a surprise for all other companions. By limited, I mean, a majority of the prominent companions of prophet had no knowledge of this election. Ali, Ibn Abbas, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Salman al-Farsi, Abu Dhar, Ammar Ibn Yasir, Miqdad, Abdurrahman Ibn Owf were among those who were not consulted or even informed of. Even Umar confessed to the fact that the election of Abu Bakr was without consultation of Muslims. (See sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817)​

2

Al-Bukhari narrated:

Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were informed that the Ansar is agreed with us and gathered in the shed of Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us, while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."

Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817​

3

They demanded confirmation of the oath, but Ali and al-Zubair stayed away. Al-Zubair drew his sword (from the scabbard), saying, "I will not put it back until the oath of allegiance is rendered to Ali." When this news reached Abu Bakr and Umar, the latter said, "Hit him with a stone and seize the sword." It is stated that Umar rushed (to the door of the House of Fatimah) and brought them forcibly while telling them that they must give their oath of allegiance willingly or unwillingly.

Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v9, pp 188-189​

4

Now let us see what Umar did on those days. Sunni historians reported that:

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:
"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni References:
- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120
- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325
- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975
- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20
- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Also:

Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out:
"By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him."

Sunni Reference: History of Tabari, English version, v9, pp 186-187

In the footnotes of the same page (p187) in the English version of the
History of al-Tabari the translator has commented:

Although the timing is not clear, it seems that Ali and his group came to know about Saqifa after what had happened there. At this point, his supporters gathered in Fatimah's house. Abu Bakr and Umar, fully aware of Ali's claims and fearing a serious threat from his supporters, summoned him to the mosque to swear the oath of allegiance. Ali refused, and so the house was surrounded by an armed band led by Abu Bakr and Umar, who threatened to set it on fire if Ali and his supporters refused to come out and swear allegiance to Abu Bakr. The scene grew violent and Fatimah was furious.

(See Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri in his , v1, pp 582-586; Tarikh Ya'qubi,
v2, p116; al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20).​

5.

Everybody came out of the house except Imam Ali (AS), who said: "I have sworn to remain home until I collect the Quran." Umar refused but Lady Fatimah's remonstration caused him to return. He instigated Abu Bakr to pursue the matter, and he send Qunfuz (his slave) several times but
received a negative reply each time. Ultimately, Umar went with a group of people to the Fatimah's house. When she heard their voice, she cried loudly; "O father, O Messenger of Allah, how are Umar Ibn al-Khattab and Abu Bakr Ibn Abi Quhafah treating us after you and how do they meet us."

The Sunni scholars, Ahmad Ibn Abdul Aziz al-Jawhari in his book 'Saqifah',
Abu Waleed Muhibbuddin Mohammad al-Shahnah al-Hanafi in his book 'Rawdhat
al-Manadhir Fi Akhbaar al-Awayil wal-Aawaakhir', Ibn Abil Hadid in his book
'Sharh al-Nahj', and others have reported the events to the same effect.​

6.

Also refer to the esteemed Sunni historian Abul Hasan, Ali Ibn al-Husain al-Mas'udi who in his book 'Isbaat al-Wasiyyah' describes the events in detail and reports that: "They surrounded Ali (AS) and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed the leader of all women (Hadhrat Fatimah (AS)) between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months)."

Salahuddin Khalil al-Safadi another Sunni scholar in his book 'Waafi al-Wafiyyaat' under the letter 'A' while recording the view of Ibrahim Ibn Sayyar Ibn Hani al-Basri, well-known as Nidhaam quotes him to have said:
"On the day of 'Bay'aat' (paying allegiance), Umar hit Fatimah (AS) on the stomach such that child in her womb died."

Why do you think an 18 year old young lady was forced to walk with the help of a walking-stick? Unbelieveable acts of cruelty and oppression had led Hadhrat Fatimah al-Zahra (AS) to lament: "Such calamities have visited me that had they descended on the day it would have darkened
it." She fell into bed till she was martyred as a results of these calamities and injuries while she was just eighteen years old!

During her last days, when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Imam Ali (AS) to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah (AS), as quoted by Ibn Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic
declaration that one who displeases Fatimah (AS) has displeased the Prophet and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF) I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14).\​

Fatima, Mother of her father, Lord of the women of the worlds, the one who the Prophet would give his place to and rise in respect to, and said: who angers her angers me, who makes her happy makes me happy, he would take permission before entering her house and giving salaam to the ahlul bait at her door. So high was her status that even the Angel of Death took permission to enter her home.

Sir jee, what you have written portrays that there has been extreme bitterness among the companions of Prophet Muhammad PBUH&HF. The companions, which were core members of the foundation of a religion, The Islam. Now, either they were abnormal people. Or we are abnormal that we follow them.

And the last thing i want to say, Hazrat Umer said, " You can rule with infidelity but not with injustice". How come Umer and AbuBakr managed to rule and expand islamic empire when they were so unjust and could not give due respect to the family of their Master PBUH& HF. In that case, ref. come under question.

 

[KingMamba]

Dear pal , can you remember your words in your previous post :



And my post was your answer , You asked me something about history and I replied it by history .... that's it ....you asked Why did he not just refuse to speak up against them but also accepted their leadership?? and I said you are wrong , he did ... that's why you need to read the history .

It is common knowledge that he objected to the leadership despite that he didn't try to scrap the caliphate even when he had the opportunity to do so. That much even Sunnis acknowledge that Hazrat Ali (RA) objected to the appointment of Abu Bakr (RA) but once again I reiterate why must we continue to bicker over something 1000 years after the fact. Surely all the companions will be judged by Allah so leave it to him. Do you not remember that Imam Hassan (RA) gave the title of Caliph to Muawiyah in order to prevent a civil war?? He would not have done so if the Caliphate was meant to remain in the bloodline of the ahlul bayt and even Imam Hussain (RA) did not try to seize the leadership for himself, he was just trying to prevent Yazid's illegitimate rise to power. The division of Sunni- Shia happened after the death of Imam Hussein (RA) when Shias declared an Imamate. They had no authority to do so, and split the Ummah into two.

 

[somebozo]

Once Prophet Muhammad PBUH was asked that what he wanted in return to the wealth of Islam he has given the people, he replied that he wanted nothing in reward except that his progeny be cared and loved.

Some people claim he said Ummah and some claim he said progeny .

Apart from that, being a Muslim, we are morally ought to love and respect the children of the Prophet. No?

When those children number a few hundred thousand - then only Allah forbid the mess.

Prophet Muhammad PBUH said that he was born in best tribe of Arab. He knew very well that there was enmity between the tribes, still he gave this statement, for what? to intensify the rivalry? The fact is, he has preached no arab has superiority over non arab. He had left that tribal rivalry behind, but Yazid had not a good moral character. So stop comparing a prince of Jannah like Hussain with that unholy man. Yazid had decided to assassinate Imam Hussain whether he was alone or with his family.

Quraysh are Semitic not Arab.

Prophet Muhammad said that if there was a prophet after him, it would be Umer. That makes Hazrat Umer the strongest candidate to become the successor of Prophet. But the fact is, all the four caliphs have been appointed with consensus.

the fact that Umar accomplished what nobody else justifies his appointment.

Fatima, Mother of her father, Lord of the women of the worlds, the one who the Prophet would give his place to and rise in respect to, and said: who angers her angers me, who makes her happy makes me happy, he would take permission before entering her house and giving salaam to the ahlul bait at her door. So high was her status that even the Angel of Death took permission to enter her home.

Care to explain what the fook that means???

 

[Cheetah786]

An example of Ummayad Leader Umar Bin Abudl Aziz. he was the great grandosn of Umar. In his reign, Kharji fitna died down, He lived a life of extreme commoner. When he died A letter fell on his grave out of now where and when people opened it it was written inside, "Allah has granted the Janna to Umar bin abdul aziz".... and it's a documented fact!

But according to you he was unjust ruler because he usurped the ahlulbayt rights of ruling!. so an unjust ruler is being granted Jannah and Abu bakr and Umar in which Islam flourished and ruled with umpteen honesty and didn't created any dynasty you wish Hell for them and call them unjust rulers. How strange

OK i will keep my nose out of it as you said But please listen to your self look what you are writing.

When he died A letter fell on his grave out of now where and when people opened it it was written inside, "Allah has granted the Janna to Umar bin abdul aziz".... and it's a documented fact!

 

[Bratva]

OK i will keep my nose out of it as you said But please listen to your self look what you are writing.

Take a time and read the history, It's what people written Not what i propagating, You can come on to defence.pk but don;t have time to read a little bit of history on net about this incident. People who went to his funeral were witnessed of this thing. Be objective when you post next time.

 

[Areesh]

All the metaphorical verses and their interpretations which you people deduce most of the time negates the one historical fact . Not for the single time in the reign of Abu Bakr Umar and Usman, Not a Single Sahaba of high stature revolted against them on the basis of these quran ayas and hadith of Ghadir Khumm... It is strange that while Sahabas battled against those who didn't payed zakat as it was made mandatory by Allah and his Apostle yet the successor which according the interpretations of your people were made mandatory yet no one raised a single sword in Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman reign.

Which brings to a logical question. All your interpretations are wrong than?

Nahjul Balagha is considered the most authentic and reliable book by Shias which consists of sermons of Hazrat Ali(RZ). The best part is that nowhere in Nahjul Balagha Hazrat Ali(RZ) said I was made leader by Prophet Mohammad(SAW) on the event of Ghadeer.

 

[raptor22]

It is common knowledge that he objected to the leadership despite that he didn't try to scrap the caliphate even when he had the opportunity to do so. That much even Sunnis acknowledge that Hazrat Ali (RA) objected to the appointment of Abu Bakr (RA) but once again I reiterate why must we continue to bicker over something 1000 years after the fact. Surely all the companions will be judged by Allah so leave it to him. Do you not remember that Imam Hassan (RA) gave the title of Caliph to Muawiyah in order to prevent a civil war?? He would not have done so if the Caliphate was meant to remain in the bloodline of the ahlul bayt and even Imam Hussain (RA) did not try to seize the leadership for himself, he was just trying to prevent Yazid's illegitimate rise to power. The division of Sunni- Shia happened after the death of Imam Hussein (RA) when Shias declared an Imamate. They had no authority to do so, and split the Ummah into two.

As I said the point is we consider them as Imams , I mean we believe that Ali (a.s) and his descendants are the Imams and successors after the prophet (pbuh), and we need to follow them ... their aim was protecting Islam not power that's why imam Hussain sacrificed himself and his family his blood and 72 of his followers saved and guaranteed Islam forever :

Ali (a.s.) says: "'I was surprised to see the people pour unto that person to give him bay'ah; so I held my hand, until I saw the people heading backwards and turning from Islam, calling for the annihilation of the religion of Muhammad (p.), so I feared that if I did not support Islam and its people, I would see its breakage and demolition, a disaster for me which would be greater than losing my rule over you, which was after all only few days long, and that it would vanish as a mirage vanishes or clouds disperse ". And in another situation he said: I will remain peaceful as long as the affairs of Muslim are secured.​

they then dragged Imam Ali (AS) out of the house, putting a noose around his neck, dragging him through the streets of Madinah to force him to make Bay'ah to Abu Bakr!!! When they reached Abu Bakr, they grabbed hold of the hand of Imam Ali (AS) and forcefully touched it to the hand of Abu Bakr, and then shouted that Imam Ali (AS) has made Bay'ah with Abu Bakr!!! People like Salman al-Farsi and Abu Dharr al-Ghefari shouted by Allah Imam Ali did NOT make Bay'ah willingly. Imam Ali (AS) told everyone that the Caliphate is his right only, as Rasulollah (S) had appointed Imam Ali (AS) as his successor on specific instructions from Allah Almighty. He repeated this throughout the rule of the three rulers Abu Bakr, Omar, and Othman, and the Muslims freely, and for the first time, made Bay'ah with Imam Ali (AS) as the Caliph of Rasulollah (S), even then he stated that it was his right to be the caliph of Rasulollah, and it was every Muslim's duty the make Bay'ah with him, Imam Ali as Amir-ul-Mu'minin, if they believed in Allah and His Messenger.

After the martyrdom of Rasulollah, the Muslims did not honour the Bay'ah they had given Imam Ali (AS) on the day of Ghadeer Khum on the orders of Rasulollah (S). The correct thing to do was to adhere to the Bay'ah the Muslims had given Imam Ali (AS), and Imam Ali (AS) challenged everyone to prove otherwise, and stated that the truth - the Haqq - was to do what Allah and His Messenger had ordered the Muslims to do​

they would have killed Imam Ali (a.s) if he hadn't given the oath of allegiance ... remember the verse :

"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)


11 out 12 of Imams were martyred , the last one who is Imam Mahdi is believed alive by shie Muslims as the prophet (pbuh) prophesied one they he and Jesus Christ will come to bring the justice to this world ... got it ? it's not something about history .... it's about future ... and he is one of the descendants of Imam Ali (a.s) ....

that's why it's important to know who is the real successor after the prophet (pbuh) , he must be appointed by God as his last prophet was .

A class(world) without teacher(a prophet or successor appointed by God almighty ) doesn't have an exam by the end of the term(judgement day) , who is our teacher ?

Care to explain what the fook that means???

first of all be polite , then :

Ummu Salamah r.a., the Prophet’s (pbuh) wife, said that Fatimah r.a. is the person most similar in word and thought to the Prophet (pbuh). As a daughter, Fatimah r.a. also loved her father more than anyone else in the world. After her mother Khadijah r.a. died, she was the one who cared for the Prophet (pbuh). She was only 6 years old at the time. She always made an effort to take over her mother’s role. She was the one who bandaged the Prophet’s (pbuh) wounds and made him happy. As a result, the Prophet (pbuh) nicknamed her Ummu Abiha, her father’s mother, for the love and noble sacrifice she showed towards her father.​

 

[qasimali]

More like the days of treachery, corruption and mass murder.
Ignorants crying over what happened 1400 years ago between two men fighting for power.

sorry brother i don't agree with you.

 

[Bratva]

As I said the point is we consider them as Imams , I mean we believe that Ali (a.s) and his descendants are the Imams and successors after the prophet (pbuh), and we need to follow them ... their aim was protecting Islam not power that's why imam Hussain sacrificed himself and his family his blood and 72 of his followers saved and guaranteed Islam forever :

Ali (a.s.) says: "'I was surprised to see the people pour unto that person to give him bay'ah; so I held my hand, until I saw the people heading backwards and turning from Islam, calling for the annihilation of the religion of Muhammad (p.), so I feared that if I did not support Islam and its people, I would see its breakage and demolition, a disaster for me which would be greater than losing my rule over you, which was after all only few days long, and that it would vanish as a mirage vanishes or clouds disperse ". And in another situation he said: I will remain peaceful as long as the affairs of Muslim are secured.​

they then dragged Imam Ali (AS) out of the house, putting a noose around his neck, dragging him through the streets of Madinah to force him to make Bay'ah to Abu Bakr!!! When they reached Abu Bakr, they grabbed hold of the hand of Imam Ali (AS) and forcefully touched it to the hand of Abu Bakr, and then shouted that Imam Ali (AS) has made Bay'ah with Abu Bakr!!! People like Salman al-Farsi and Abu Dharr al-Ghefari shouted by Allah Imam Ali did NOT make Bay'ah willingly. Imam Ali (AS) told everyone that the Caliphate is his right only, as Rasulollah (S) had appointed Imam Ali (AS) as his successor on specific instructions from Allah Almighty. He repeated this throughout the rule of the three rulers Abu Bakr, Omar, and Othman, and the Muslims freely, and for the first time, made Bay'ah with Imam Ali (AS) as the Caliph of Rasulollah (S), even then he stated that it was his right to be the caliph of Rasulollah, and it was every Muslim's duty the make Bay'ah with him, Imam Ali as Amir-ul-Mu'minin, if they believed in Allah and His Messenger.

After the martyrdom of Rasulollah, the Muslims did not honour the Bay'ah they had given Imam Ali (AS) on the day of Ghadeer Khum on the orders of Rasulollah (S). The correct thing to do was to adhere to the Bay'ah the Muslims had given Imam Ali (AS), and Imam Ali (AS) challenged everyone to prove otherwise, and stated that the truth - the Haqq - was to do what Allah and His Messenger had ordered the Muslims to do​

they would have killed Imam Ali (a.s) if he hadn't given the oath of allegiance ... remember the verse :

"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)


11 out 12 of Imams were martyred , the last one who is Imam Mahdi is believed alive by shie Muslims as the prophet (pbuh) prophesied one they he and Jesus Christ will come to bring the justice to this world ... got it ? it's not something about history .... it's about future ... and he is one of the descendants of Imam Ali (a.s) ....

that's why it's important to know who is the real successor after the prophet (pbuh) , he must be appointed by God as his last prophet was .

A class(world) without teacher(a prophet or successor appointed by God almighty ) doesn't have an exam by the end of the term(judgement day) , who is our teacher ?




first of all be polite , then :

Ummu Salamah r.a., the Prophet’s (pbuh) wife, said that Fatimah r.a. is the person most similar in word and thought to the Prophet (pbuh). As a daughter, Fatimah r.a. also loved her father more than anyone else in the world. After her mother Khadijah r.a. died, she was the one who cared for the Prophet (pbuh). She was only 6 years old at the time. She always made an effort to take over her mother’s role. She was the one who bandaged the Prophet’s (pbuh) wounds and made him happy. As a result, the Prophet (pbuh) nicknamed her Ummu Abiha, her father’s mother, for the love and noble sacrifice she showed towards her father.​

That's where you and we people disagree. This story of Hazrat Ali (R.A) is false for us. Very weak narratives or else would have been mentioned in 6 books of Hadith!