Remembrance of Muharram , the days of sorrow and grief

[Salik]

you guys eat ashura in muharram?

very nice

In Arabic, the word Ten ( 10 ) is called Ashara



Ashura is derived from it, which means first ten days of the lunar month of Muharram, main period of activities we are discussing.


BTW, that dish looks delicious, please share the recipe

 

[raptor22]

All the metaphorical verses and their interpretations which you people deduce most of the time negates the one historical fact . Not for the single time in the reign of Abu Bakr Umar and Usman, Not a Single Sahaba of high stature revolted against them on the basis of these quran ayas and hadith of Ghadir Khumm... It is strange that while Sahabas battled against those who didn't payed zakat as it was made mandatory by Allah and his Apostle yet the successor which according the interpretations of your people were made mandatory yet no one raised a single sword in Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman reign.

Which brings to a logical question. All your interpretations are wrong than?

Dude I don't want to impose anything on you , you have free will to choose and obey ... it's what I believe in ... I didn't want to start any debate on this thread till someone compared Imam Hussain (A.s) with Yazid . and after this post i won't reply you anymore ,it's up to you to believe in or not . I think the virtuous and righteous and faithful ones of Islamic Ummah deserve to reign and I swear to God that Ali (a.s) and his siblings are the most pious and faithful people of the Ummah.

But about Ghadir :

After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked everybody to give the oath of allegiance to 'Ali [a] and congratulate him. Among those who did so was 'Umar b. al-Khattab, who said:

"Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the Leader (mawla) of all believing men and women."​

To be honest I don't care they revolted or not , prophet (pbuh) appointed him (Imam Ali (a.s) )as commander of faithful and ALL people including Mr Omar or abubakr gave the oath of allegiance to him thus I obey him , you can obey Mr Omar or Abubakr or whoever you are willing ... you can follow Sehabe I follow prophet .

Your assumption is, God and his prophet (pbuh) didn't appoint anyone as a successor , If we accept it there are only two options:

1) God and his prophet (pbuh) didn't care about people hence they didn't appoint anyone as a successor.
2) God and his prophet (pbuh) were not aware of how having a successor could be important so they didn't appoint anyone as a successor.

But some people like Mr Omar and Mr Abubakr were well aware of how it's important to have a successor therefore instead of participating and helping Ahlolbeit to bury the prophet (pbuh) they were in Saghife to appoint a successor , even Mr abubakr appointed Mr Omar as caliph after himself.

Or there is another option , God and his prophet did care about people and they appointed a successor but people didn't obey them :

"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)​

Allah wants to protect prophet from whom? as you said it was something about spiritual matters .. does any one threat any one else for such a thing ? or it was about power ?what it could be, which if the prophet doesn't do that he has not delivered His message (at all) ... imagine 23 years hardships and problems won't be completed if he doesn't do that .. what it is?isn't appointing a successor which could put his life in jeopardy ?

Narrated Said: Allah’s Apostle set out for Tabuk. appointing ‘Ali as his deputy (in Medina). ‘Ali said, “Do you want to leave me with the children and women?” The Prophet said, “Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron (Harun) to Moses (Musa)? But there will be no prophet after me.”
Translated by some like this: (‘Your relation to me shall be like the relation of Harun to Musa&#8230 & (You hold in relation to me the same position as Harun held in relation to Musa)​

and also about the verse that I posted , it's crystal clear believe it or not.

“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.” ​

Frantz Fanon

 

[Salik]

Everyone love's their children and grand children including me, you and everyone on PDF - this is usual human emotion nothing supernatural about it.

Once Prophet Muhammad PBUH was asked that what he wanted in return to the wealth of Islam he has given the people, he replied that he wanted nothing in reward except that his progeny be cared and loved.

Apart from that, being a Muslim, we are morally ought to love and respect the children of the Prophet. No?

Revenge & power dictated 7th century politics.

Prophet Muhammad PBUH said that he was born in best tribe of Arab. He knew very well that there was enmity between the tribes, still he gave this statement, for what? to intensify the rivalry? The fact is, he has preached no arab has superiority over non arab. He had left that tribal rivalry behind, but Yazid had not a good moral character. So stop comparing a prince of Jannah like Hussain with that unholy man. Yazid had decided to assassinate Imam Hussain whether he was alone or with his family.

the point is Ummah needed a successor after the prophet (pbuh) , prophet (pbuh) was apointed to be prophet by God , like all prophets .... could you please tell me while prophet is appointed by God why his successor have to be appointed by people?

Prophet Muhammad said that if there was a prophet after him, it would be Umer. That makes Hazrat Umer the strongest candidate to become the successor of Prophet. But the fact is, all the four caliphs have been appointed with consensus.

 

[Bratva]

Dude I don't want to impose anything on you , you have free will to choose and obey ... it's what I believe in ... I didn't want to start any debate on this thread till someone compared Imam Hussain (A.s) with Yazid . and after this post i won't reply you anymore ,it's up to you to believe in or not . I think the virtuous and righteous and faithful ones of Islamic Ummah deserve to reign and I swear to God that Ali (a.s) and his siblings are the most pious and faithful people of the Ummah.

But about Ghadir :

After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked everybody to give the oath of allegiance to 'Ali [a] and congratulate him. Among those who did so was 'Umar b. al-Khattab, who said:

"Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the Leader (mawla) of all believing men and women."​

To be honest I don't care they revolted or not , prophet (pbuh) appointed him (Imam Ali (a.s) )as commander of faithful and ALL people including Mr Omar or abubakr gave the oath of allegiance to him thus I obey him , you can obey Mr Omar or Abubakr or whoever you are willing ... you can follow Sehabe I follow prophet .

Your assumption is, God and his prophet (pbuh) didn't appoint anyone as a successor , If we accept it there are only two options:

1) God and his prophet (pbuh) didn't care about people hence they didn't appoint anyone as a successor.
2) God and his prophet (pbuh) were not aware of how having a successor could be important so they didn't appoint anyone as a successor.

But some people like Mr Omar and Mr Abubakr were well aware of how it's important to have a successor therefore instead of participating and helping Ahlolbeit to bury the prophet (pbuh) they were in Saghife to appoint a successor , even Mr abubakr appointed Mr Omar as caliph after himself.

Or there is another option , God and his prophet did care about people and they appointed a successor but people didn't obey them :

"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)​

Allah wants to protect prophet from whom? as you said it was something about spiritual matters .. does any one threat any one else for such a thing ? or it was about power ?what it could be, which if the prophet doesn't do that he has not delivered His message (at all) ... imagine 23 years hardships and problems won't be completed if he doesn't do that .. what it is?isn't appointing a successor which could put his life in jeopardy ?

Narrated Said: Allah’s Apostle set out for Tabuk. appointing ‘Ali as his deputy (in Medina). ‘Ali said, “Do you want to leave me with the children and women?” The Prophet said, “Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron (Harun) to Moses (Musa)? But there will be no prophet after me.”
Translated by some like this: (‘Your relation to me shall be like the relation of Harun to Musa&#8230 & (You hold in relation to me the same position as Harun held in relation to Musa)​

and also about the verse that I posted , it's crystal clear believe it or not.

“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.” ​

Frantz Fanon

Moula. Not the Ameer. Moula is used to indicate the supreme leader in the religious matters. Show one example where Moula is used for any wordly leader?

you beating the same bush. All the verses and hadiths points towards Hazrat Ali (R.A) stature and his position as the the one who will protect the matters of Islam and spirituality after Prophet (p.b.u.h).

See you don't care about the people of time who actually were around Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) and knew what exactly he meant. They knew the correct interpretations of what prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) said Show me one example of Tribe of Prophet (P.B.U.H) revolted against those guys or show someone from Al-e-e Abu Talib or Al-e-e Abu Abbas cursing Abu bakr, Umar or Usman for their disobedience towards Prophet Orders?

All the sayings of Ahlol Bayt points towards the one who would protect the matters of religion and will lead them in Islam but you guys insist that they meant to rule Muslims.


And you people have clear bias against Abu Bakr And Umar, that's why you ignore the circumstances of why Abu Bakr and Umar was there at the time of Prophet (P.B.U.H) death. Ansaars were showing the signs of discontent and were on the verge of revolt. So they were there to calm them down and make consensus among them to chose their leader.

So Once again, I ask you. Why Ansaars and Quraysh of that time didn't revolted against Abu Bakr knowing all the things about what Prophet (P.B.U.H) said? Did Hazrat Abbas revolted? Hazrat Abu zar Ghaffari? Sulemain Farsi? Bilal Habshi?

I know there was discontent b/w Ahlul bayt and Abu Bakr. Yet did they revolted openly agianst them like Hazrat Hussian revoulted against the the unjust rulers?

. I think the virtuous and righteous and faithful ones of Islamic Ummah deserve to reign and I swear to God that Ali (a.s) and his siblings are the most pious and faithful people of the Ummah.

Not everything works according to your desires. What Allah desires only that happens. Because of Allah, Abu Bakr, Umar And Usman ruled for years, If Allah didn't desired for their rule would they have ruled for so many years?

Which brings to the question that all the verses and hadiths indicates spiritual leadership of Ali after Prophet(p.b.u.h) death or did it indicates the wordly leadership?

 

[Bratva]

So your interpretation is Prophets Of Islams Grand son Imam Hussein was Power Hungry thats why he stood with few friends and family against the army of 1000s so he could win power plus Quranic verses are wrong since history negates them.

Me and raptor debating about the status of Hazrat Ali leadership. Please don't poke your nose when you don;t understand what some one is debating!

 

[Bratva]

An example of Ummayad Leader Umar Bin Abudl Aziz. he was the great grandosn of Umar. In his reign, Kharji fitna died down, He lived a life of extreme commoner. When he died A letter fell on his grave out of now where and when people opened it it was written inside, "Allah has granted the Janna to Umar bin abdul aziz".... and it's a documented fact!

But according to you he was unjust ruler because he usurped the ahlulbayt rights of ruling!. so an unjust ruler is being granted Jannah and Abu bakr and Umar in which Islam flourished and ruled with umpteen honesty and didn't created any dynasty you wish Hell for them and call them unjust rulers. How strange

 

[Kompromat]

With due respect, BRO, Religious Debates & Threads are not allowed in this forum.
This thread is based on the beliefs of a few sects that think Muharram is the month of sorrow and grief to which rest of the other sects does not agree as Muhammad SAW did not any such a thing regarding this month. Its another peaceful Month of Allah.
So Kindly, either delete this thread or let us debate.

Will be shut on 11th.

 

[SQ8]

With due respect, BRO, Religious Debates & Threads are not allowed in this forum.
This thread is based on the beliefs of a few sects that think Muharram is the month of sorrow and grief to which rest of the other sects does not agree as Muhammad SAW did not any such a thing regarding this month. Its another peaceful Month of Allah.
So Kindly, either delete this thread or let us debate.

Both flawed assumptions..
I am not a follower of Fiqh-e-Jafria but I too express my sorrow and grief on the 10th over a tragedy that affects ALL MUSLIMS.
If you wish to disregard the prophet and his family then its your choice. The only "sect" that propagates this are the wahabbis.

Also the month of Muharram is also sacred and the prophet would fast on the 9th and 10th of this month.

 

[Salik]

Yazid's motives were clear, he wanted the Caliphate to stay within his family and he knew that the only other family on the planet who could challenge his desire was the family of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Why do you think his men killed the 6 month old son of Imam Hussain (RA), when he could have done no harm?? It was about trying to wipe out the bloodline of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Do you think Yazid was such a prudent person, to keep Caliphate within his family. He was just a stupid and evil person. Otherwise he would also have erased the other son of Imam Hussain, Imam Zain ul Abdeen, who was in the camp at the time of fight, and was ill. After the incident, he was taken with other family members and women to Syria.

Or do you think that there was an intelligence failure. No one knew that he was the son of Imam Hussain AS. Yazid had only one purpose and that was to strengthen his position and Imam Hussain was the only and biggest obstacle in that because he was an icon for Muslims.

 

[KingMamba]

Do you think Yazid was such a prudent person, to keep Caliphate within his family. He was just a stupid and evil person. Otherwise he would also have erased the other son of Imam Hussain, Imam Zain ul Abdeen, who was in the camp at the time of fight, and was ill. After the incident, he was taken with other family members and women to Syria.

Or do you think that there was an intelligence failure. No one knew that he was the son of Imam Hussain AS. Yazid had only one purpose and that was to strengthen his position and Imam Hussain was the only and biggest obstacle in that because he was an icon for Muslims.

I have no doubt that Yazid was an idiot but I do not think it was any of that which prevented him from doing so. You have to remember the uproar that erupted throughout much of the caliphate when news of the slaughter reached various people. A lot of sources say he feared any more bloodshed of people from the house of the Prophet (PBUH) would lead to a revolution. Besides Imam Hussain (RA) was the most vocal speaking out against him and he had already gotten rid of him.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Both flawed assumptions..
I am not a follower of Fiqh-e-Jafria but I too express my sorrow and grief on the 10th over a tragedy that affects ALL MUSLIMS.
If you wish to disregard the prophet and his family then its your choice. The only "sect" that propagates this are the wahabbis.

Also the month of Muharram is also sacred and the prophet would fast on the 9th and 10th of this month.

Excuse me, Would you please elaborate how i disregard Muhammad SAW and his family and where i post any such a thing?

I Observe / celebrate Muharram as directed by Muhammad SAW, I fast of 9 & 10 and praise Allah, Thats what Muhammad told me and all of us to do. If you say it flawed assumption, kindly come up with something to back your statement.
If someone one wants to cry over spilt milk, that's his own choice, its not ISLAM and you won't even get anything in return from Allah as a reward for doing that. Muhammad SAW said not to cry or mourn over dead one for more than 3 days let alone thousand of years.
Story of Karbala Varies from region to region and country to country. You get a different story in KSA and the middle east which is pro Yazidi yet they don't bash Hussain RA and Pro Hussaini found in Iran, Syria, Iraq. Countries like Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey carries both types. When i am really not sure what happened 1400 years ago why should i take any kind of stand either for Yazeed or Hussain RA, whn it's not the part of Islamic practices.

 

[KingMamba]

Dude I don't want to impose anything on you , you have free will to choose and obey ... it's what I believe in ... I didn't want to start any debate on this thread till someone compared Imam Hussain (A.s) with Yazid . and after this post i won't reply you anymore ,it's up to you to believe in or not . I think the virtuous and righteous and faithful ones of Islamic Ummah deserve to reign and I swear to God that Ali (a.s) and his siblings are the most pious and faithful people of the Ummah.

But about Ghadir :

After his speech, the Messenger of Allah asked everybody to give the oath of allegiance to 'Ali [a] and congratulate him. Among those who did so was 'Umar b. al-Khattab, who said:

"Well done Ibn Abi Talib! Today you became the Leader (mawla) of all believing men and women."​

To be honest I don't care they revolted or not , prophet (pbuh) appointed him (Imam Ali (a.s) )as commander of faithful and ALL people including Mr Omar or abubakr gave the oath of allegiance to him thus I obey him , you can obey Mr Omar or Abubakr or whoever you are willing ... you can follow Sehabe I follow prophet .

Your assumption is, God and his prophet (pbuh) didn't appoint anyone as a successor , If we accept it there are only two options:

1) God and his prophet (pbuh) didn't care about people hence they didn't appoint anyone as a successor.
2) God and his prophet (pbuh) were not aware of how having a successor could be important so they didn't appoint anyone as a successor.

But some people like Mr Omar and Mr Abubakr were well aware of how it's important to have a successor therefore instead of participating and helping Ahlolbeit to bury the prophet (pbuh) they were in Saghife to appoint a successor , even Mr abubakr appointed Mr Omar as caliph after himself.

Or there is another option , God and his prophet did care about people and they appointed a successor but people didn't obey them :

"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)​

Allah wants to protect prophet from whom? as you said it was something about spiritual matters .. does any one threat any one else for such a thing ? or it was about power ?what it could be, which if the prophet doesn't do that he has not delivered His message (at all) ... imagine 23 years hardships and problems won't be completed if he doesn't do that .. what it is?isn't appointing a successor which could put his life in jeopardy ?

Narrated Said: Allah’s Apostle set out for Tabuk. appointing ‘Ali as his deputy (in Medina). ‘Ali said, “Do you want to leave me with the children and women?” The Prophet said, “Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron (Harun) to Moses (Musa)? But there will be no prophet after me.”
Translated by some like this: (‘Your relation to me shall be like the relation of Harun to Musa&#8230 & (You hold in relation to me the same position as Harun held in relation to Musa)​

and also about the verse that I posted , it's crystal clear believe it or not.

“Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.” ​

Frantz Fanon

Brother this will be my last post on this thread so I want you to ponder what I write. Listen despite all you have written you have to wonder why didn't Hazrat Ali (RA) speak up against the rules of Abu Bakr (RA), Usman (RA), or Umar (RA)?? Why did he not just refuse to speak up against them but also accepted their leadership?? If he had a problem with the Caliphate why did he not try to correct it when he was appointed Caliph? Why didn't Imam Hassan (RA) after taking over following his father not do so?? The answer is twofold, one they accepted the Caliphate as legitimate, and two they did not want to create Fitna among the believers or shed any unnecessary blood. So why did people split off into another sect and breakup the unity of the believers when Hazrat ALI (RA) and both of his sons (RA) who you guys revere never did so themselves???? Perhaps the most important question, why do we still quarrel about this 1000 years after the fact???

 

[laiqs@mi]

Both flawed assumptions..
I am not a follower of Fiqh-e-Jafria but I too express my sorrow and grief on the 10th over a tragedy that affects ALL MUSLIMS.
If you wish to disregard the prophet and his family then its your choice. The only "sect" that propagates this are the wahabbis.

Also the month of Muharram is also sacred and the prophet would fast on the 9th and 10th of this month.

yes fasting is better then other things.

but islam was completed. any thing new in islam is not allowed. and sorrow is haram in islam . Mohammad s.a.w.w said the one who beathimself on dead body is not amongst us.

 

[punit]

incident of karbala is the preserver of islam. Blood of hassan and hussain made the tree of islam grow in all direction. I remember being moved by this story/incident i'm not a muslim but i used to participate in muharram julus as child. I and my friends still serve water and sorbet as well as 1st aid to the mourners.

 

[SQ8]

yes fasting is better then other things.

but islam was completed. any thing new in islam is not allowed. and sorrow is haram in islam . Mohammad s.a.w.w said the one who beathimself on dead body is not amongst us.

The extreme sorrow displayed by certain sects is debatable.
But why did the prophet recall Khadija(RA) throughout the years? Aisha(RA) recounted this on many occasions.
Sorrow is not prohibited, wailing about it is. You may remember a relative, shed a tear because you miss him..but you may not create a ruckus about it.

Islam was completed, but if you misunderstand the completion.. if you not go through the prophet's life again and again which is the practical demonstration of Islam.. then you may get trapped into misunderstanding and end up as a fountain of Shirk and Bidah accusations.
And to accuse a Muslim of Shirk and Bidah without fully understanding the topic is tantamount to murder..
So its best we not comment too much on mourning where the prophets family is concerned since we may end up mistaking reverence for mourning in our quest to enforce " the correct version".
Certain practices I find offensive on Muharram by other sects.. and it may be vice versa..
to drag it down to petty discourse and ignore what is still a sacred day from what our prophet would practice and a day where there was a supreme sacrifice given by a member of the prophets family and we are inviting trouble upon ourselves.
Observe whatever you will, be it a Yazidi view, a Ahle-Tashi View, A Sufi View.. or whatever...and hold your peace.