Rejecting an alleged miracle of Ghous Pak Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani leads to being beaten up by charged crowd

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When 50% can't even read or write thier own name... manipulation is easy.

Educated ones are no better.

 

[_NOBODY_]

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[313ghazi]

Educated ones are no better.

No difference between that and this...

In both instances the ground is kissed out of reverence.

If you want a good example of what's wrong with religion in Pakistan see the tone and content of the dialogue in this thread.

 

[_NOBODY_]

I thought the term Sunni had more to do with fiqh than aqeedah?
Also, outside of Pakistan, in the greater Islamic world, sunni vs shia vs salafi trichotomy pai jaati he.. I would assume deobandis are included in sunni.

Also, sir. no offense, ye qadianis wali to chawal hi maari he
They can claim to be martians. Unki kiya baat he. Unless aap tamam non-barelvi's aur qadianis ko aik hi soti se haank rhe hn, which I don't think you are. Is liye ye example inappropriate he, I think.

With all due respect, outside South Asia, Barelvis can hardly be considered Sunnis considering how different they are compared to all the other Sunnis. The amount of lore they have added on top of Orthodox Sunni Islam makes their version of Islam way different from all the other versions of Sunni Islam.

 

[AlKardai]

Is that my poor man's negative rating?

 

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No difference between that and this...

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In both instances the ground is kissed out of reverence.

If you want a good example of what's wrong with religion in Pakistan see the tone and content of the dialogue in this thread.

prostrating and kissing with the intention of worship or even respect is Haraam. You can consult any competent and reliable Mufti to understand it better.

There is also quite a difference between kissing the land as greeting and kissing the land and grave where someone is buried in vicinity.

I can quote some references for you to get a shallow understanding of the Islamic Fiqh (Jurisprudence) on this matter but it is more advisable that you consult with a learned Islamic scholar and books.

Qays ibn Sa'd narrates that I went to al-Hirah and saw them (the people) prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, so I said: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) has most right to have prostration made before him. When I came to the Prophet (peace be upon him), I said: I went to al-Hirah and saw them prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, but you have most right, Apostle of Allah, to have (people) prostrating themselves before you. He said: Tell me , if you were to pass my grave, would you prostrate yourself before it? I said: No. He then said: Do not do so. If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah. (Abu Dawood: 876)


Given the above and similar texts, prostration for anyone besides Allah is unlawful, and regarded a major sin. If practiced out of worship, then it will be disbelief (kufr).


In regards to kissing the grave it is stated in Raddul Muhtar that to kiss the ground in front of a respected person is unlawful. If this is done out of worship or even respect then this is disbelief. However if it is done as a greeting then it will not be disbelief but sinful. (Vol 5, P271)


It is clear from the above that if the kissing of the grave was done out of worship then there is no doubt that this is shirk, however if it was done as a means of greeting then although it is a major sin the person should not be called a mushrik but rather the severity of the matter explained to him/her and he/she encouraged to ask for sincere repentance.

There is no difference of opinion in all 4 madhabs regarding kissing the grave or land and vicinity or bowing around them to be a sin.

P.S: I left the fifth Madhab out as I have little to no information about their stand on this issue and thus spoke of the Sunni Madhabs.

 

[PakAlp]

Educated ones are no better.

IK did the action and he clarified but still the highly educated intelligent Pakistanis repeat the same thing. If people are accusing IK of shirk then they are declaring him a kafir Astaghfirullah, its not a joke.

This is Chenchen President visiting the blessed Roza Rasool peace be upon him. Love is part of our Iman and Aqaid.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Engineer has done great damage to babiologists
So babiologists are very angry nowadays


Sade Nabi jia te hai e koi nae
O babe te she e koi nae

 

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If you want a good example of what's wrong with religion in Pakistan see the tone and content of the dialogue in this thread.

What is wrong is our Aqeedah and the concept of Tauheed. Muslims need to strengthen their fundamentals.

 

[PakAlp]

prostrating and kissing with the intention of worship or even respect is Haraam. You can consult any competent and reliable Mufti to understand it better.

There is also quite a difference between kissing the land as greeting and kissing the land and grave where someone is buried in vicinity.

I can quote some references for you to get a shallow understanding of the Islamic Fiqh (Jurisprudence) on this matter but it is more advisable that you consult with a learned Islamic scholar and books.

There is no difference of opinion in all 4 madhabs regarding kissing the grave or land and vicinity or bowing around them to be a sin.

Even thinking of worshiping a stone is shirk and kufr but what if the person finds the stone (marble) beautiful and decorates his house with it. Is he a kafir. Similarly the act of kissing is not shirk, bowing is not shirk. Its only shirk when you want to worship or kiss for worship. Sujood is completely different, it is haram to do it for respect and shirk and kufr for worship, but kissing feeting, or bowing for exercise is not shirk or kufr.

Engineer has done great damage to babiologists
So babiologists are very angry nowadays

Sade Nabi jia te hai e koi nae
O babe te she e koi nae

Engineer is just copying British born molvis from the UK, there are plenty of them around, they speak amazing English, have beautiful speaking skills and pick and choose from Quran and sunnah, they also expose everyone else, find their faults etc. Young people love them as they feel good becoming part of something.

 

[PakAlp]

With all due respect, outside South Asia, Barelvis can hardly be considered Sunnis considering how different they are compared to all the other Sunnis. The amount of lore they have added on top of Orthodox Sunni Islam makes their version of Islam way different from all the other versions of Sunni Islam.

Apologies but your highly mistaken. If you take away the jahalat, the so called brelvis are very similar to the Turks, Africans, Indonesians, Egyptians etc, our aqeedah is one. The dodgy sufi sects are in fact fake people who are businessmen, the ulema issued fatwas against them but they exist because people love them, love to spend their money.

 

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Sajda-e-Taazimi ended with the Teachings of Hazrat Isa AS.

Even thinking of worshiping a stone is shirk and kufr but what if the person finds the stone (marble) beautiful and decorates his house with it. Is he a kafir. Similarly the act of kissing is not shirk, bowing is not shirk.

Bowing to a stone or even Ghulaf e Kaaba or kissing it is not allowed no matter what the intention is. What constitute Shirk is a bit different but there is no difference of opinion with regards to bowing to something out of love, respect etc to be a sin.

The only exception to kissing out of respect is Hijr e Aswad

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 860 - The Book on Hajj - كتاب الحج عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

THis reminds me of Jewish way of worship. Plenty of photos and videos of how they rever their Western Wall.

 

[PakAlp]

Sajda-e-Taazimi ended with the Teachings of Hazrat Isa AS.

Bowing to a stone or even Ghulaf e Kaaba or kissing it is not allowed no matter what the intention is. What constitute Shirk is a bit different but there is no difference of opinion with regards to bowing to something out of love, respect etc to be a sin.

The only exception to kissing out of respect is Hijr e Aswad

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 860 - The Book on Hajj - كتاب الحج عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Yes I agree. But if someone does it then its not shirk or kufr but haram. Haram is forbidden but shirk makes you a kafir. People don't know the difference.

Sajood is haram or shirk. Bowing depends, because even slight bowing is bowing. Sometimes people bow a little bit for the elders to shake hand but that's not haram or shirk, or bowing to kiss feet of parents.

Kissing is 100% allowed. To the kaba, Blackstone, makam e Ibrahim etc, even the Saudis do it but their followers think they don't.

You would be surprised the mushriks used to worship stones too and the non Muslims have big propaganda going against us Muslims that we are stone worshippers because we have a black stone. You see its easy to take photos of people touching and kissing it and claim look all Muslims are mushriks but the reality is different as we know, the kaba is also stone build and they claim we circumbulate it to worship it, it doesn't matter what we reply back they will still say its worship but will claim we are hiding our kufr.

So this false shirk propaganda must stop and we need to educate the Muslims to get rid of their jahil acts, and unite to defend our religion.

 

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So this false shirk propaganda must stop and we need to educate the Muslims to get rid of their jahil acts, and unite to defend our religion.

Very well said.
Education is needed both on what constitute a shirk, differentiating Major Shirk and Minor Shirk, and also distinguishing Haraam from Shirk.
I don't have much hopes though from our society. How about we all rather than debating Islam actually first even go through the Translation and Tafsir of Quran to actually grasp even the shallow comprehension before we discuss the faith?

People rote learn and memorize the Quran even without actually knowing what they are reading.

 

[PakAlp]

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 860 - The Book on Hajj - كتاب الحج عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

THis reminds me of Jewish way of worship. Plenty of photos and videos of how they rever their Western Wall.
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It doesn't matter if the Jews or Christians do it or not. We follow Islam, whatever is allowed we do it. We have alot of similarities with the Jews and Christians, even mushrikeen of makkah used to do hajj and circumbulate the kaba, had the black stone etc.

Don't mind me, not trying to put you down but sharing some information so you can do some research.