Reject terrorism and fight TTP (Video)

[Mitro]

Peace will only return to Pakistan when they finish TTP ,TTP is a ghost organisation under direct command of CIA ,getting all the logistic and weapon and training support .they are highly train private militia force hired from all over Afghanistan,pakistan,uzbek,uighur may be from around the world they don't care about religion or human life they just work for money .this is the time for PA to finish this KHWARIJ MUNAFIQEEN and show the world that they are ready to finish this disease call TTP .

Pakistan should attack TTP location and its leader in Afghanistan and its supporter in Pakistan.Start using chinese arem drones and attack helicopter and redesign the army to fight this menance.TTp won't have place to hide after 2014 withdraw of Nato from AF so they will try to negotiate with PA but once the enemy is always the enemy .

 

[Mitro]

Why you are comparing oranges to apple when it is clear that TTP is not fighting for independent they are fighting because they wants to implement so call Sharia and Government support to Nato.Terrorist fighting in Kashmir are fighting for independent from our government .

There is no justification of terrorist or occupation both are torture for human being.I have removed bodies from mumbai local trains bomb blast i was not able to eat meat for some time and the smell is unbearable.innocent people dying for no reason ,in indian sub continent losing sole bread winner is devastating to the family and their survivla are at stack.

@FaujHistorian I wasn't gloating over it. Just a casual sarcasm over people who call Kashmir insurgency as Jehad or Freedom fight, completely ignoring how many innocents have been killed in Kashmir alone.

You all are sick of terrorism in your country which has been for what, 10 years, we have been living under this for past 22-23 years.

My point is that when people tell us that their terror support is justified, then I ask what's the reason PA and ISI attacking its own citizen considered right action whereas they call Kashmir their people and kill innocents in name of their freedom.

Yes Pakistan have provided freedom to thousands, sending them to heaven from hell, a hell created in Heaven in India.

I am sick of this Jehad and so called Freedom Movement.

 

[Albatross]

@FaujHistorian I wasn't gloating over it. Just a casual sarcasm over people who call Kashmir insurgency as Jehad or Freedom fight, completely ignoring how many innocents have been killed in Kashmir alone.

You all are sick of terrorism in your country which has been for what, 10 years, we have been living under this for past 22-23 years.

My point is that when people tell us that their terror support is justified, then I ask what's the reason PA and ISI attacking its own citizen considered right action whereas they call Kashmir their people and kill innocents in name of their freedom.

Yes Pakistan have provided freedom to thousands, sending them to heaven from hell, a hell created in Heaven in India.

I am sick of this Jehad and so called Freedom Movement.

You cant compare kashmir with anything else...Thats a 97% muslim area that just wants to get rid of india owing to its suppressions for last 6 decades..he majority of people of Kashmir Valley are called Kashmiri and they speak the Kashmiri language. Kashmir Valley has a Muslim majority population. Islam is practiced by 97% of the population.[8] The valley has also small communities of Hindu Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs.Kashmir Valley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan / India were divided on religious lines and even a 4th grader can tell where should kashmir had been and whatever happened,is happening and will happen is due to that injustice that was done by india in 47 untill they correct that mistake india will be draing money in kashmir without any longterm gains and that was for kashmir .. dont derail this thread and say if you have anything on this thread as @FaujHistorian did raise some very good poinst abt pak/iran balochistan and also fata...

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan
Unfortunately I can’t enjoy your video because it couldn’t be run on my computer.

I myself always condemned to TTP and each school of thought existed in Pakistan condemn to TTP & its activities but you always try to manipulate things & cook up stories. Let’s find some answers of very simple questions:

1) Had terrorism existed in Pakistan before Afghan war? My opinion (NO)
2) Had USA not created to militants for its self-interest? My opinion (Yes)
3) Had USA not used Jihad terminology against Soviet Union? My opinion (Yes)
4) Why had USA funded to militant against Soviet Union? My opinion (So that cold war could be won)
5) What is the relation between Taliban & TTP? My opinion (TTP is not Taliban. They just use the name)
6) Have the tattooed terrorists not been caught in Peshawar attack? My opinion (Yes)
7) Do you not think those tattooed terrorists are foreigners? My opinion (Yes)
8) If Islam is barbarian religion then why do so many people convert into Islam every year? My opinion (Due to its trueness)
9) Scholars & followers of all major schools of thought (except minors) have been killed in Pakistan after TTP formation, then which Islam is behind in that? My opinion (Islam is not behind of it, some other source are working)
10) Kindly mention name of any religious scholar or organization who supports to TTP.

If you would get answers of above questions I hope your mind will be cleared regarding terrorism.
@LoveIcon, @JonAsad, @Zarvan, @muse, @somebozo, @CoolMinded your input will be highly appreciated.

I accede that some of your points are correct. But these realities should not be used to shower the TTP in roses like some people do.

I am not anti-Islamic or I wouldn't have talked about ibn Rushd and others when advocating secularism. People are very quickly labelled such the moment they criticize the mullah who hasn't been given his mandate by Allah but is a man like everyone else. It may take you time to understand the concepts I represent.

Furthermore you have also doubted my purposes and my Nationalism for Pakistan once which is truly sad just because of a single concept I promote. Also I do not agree with point 5 and as I said the correctness of the other points should not be used to draw a good or bad Taliban line. 80% of the killings by Afghan taliban are afghan civilians so this is all pretty callous of us. We can't support terror in one country and when it happens in ours cry foul that they are not real taliban. Treat terrorists as terrorists. Don't sympathize with them because thats what they use to get power.

Also point 4 is well-noted and I have said the same thing over and over. It was right for the US to shake hands with Haqqani then and call Taliban ideological forefathers of Afghanistan but now they drop bombs on the same people and accuse us of siding with them when they once did themselves pumping 4 billion dollars into their mouths.

 

[KRAIT]

Apple and Oranges ?

Innocents are killed on both sides.
Soldiers are killed in both sides.
Army has to act against its own people.
Foreign backing of terrorists from both side's Intelligence agency.
War crimes in both side.

I can draw so many commonalities if you want.

I know what is more challenging. I know what kills millions of people slowly and painfully.

 

[muse]

Peace will only return to Pakistan when they finish TTP ,TTP is a ghost organisation under direct command of CIA ,getting all the logistic and weapon and training support .they are highly train private militia force hired from all over Afghanistan,pakistan,uzbek,uighur may be from around the world they don't care about religion or human life they just work for money .this is the time for PA to finish this KHWARIJ MUNAFIQEEN and show the world that they are ready to finish this disease call TTP .

Pakistan should attack TTP location and its leader in Afghanistan and its supporter in Pakistan.Start using chinese arem drones and attack helicopter and redesign the army to fight this menance.TTp won't have place to hide after 2014 withdraw of Nato from AF so they will try to negotiate with PA but once the enemy is always the enemy .

You forgot to add ISI among the supporters - hard to believe? pay attention to whom TTP has asked to guarantee talks with govt and the eagerness of the JI to gaurantee

 

[KingMamba]

@FaujHistorian I wasn't gloating over it. Just a casual sarcasm over people who call Kashmir insurgency as Jehad or Freedom fight, completely ignoring how many innocents have been killed in Kashmir alone.

You all are sick of terrorism in your country which has been for what, 10 years, we have been living under this for past 22-23 years.

My point is that when people tell us that their terror support is justified, then I ask what's the reason PA and ISI attacking its own citizen considered right action whereas they call Kashmir their people and kill innocents in name of their freedom.

Yes Pakistan have provided freedom to thousands, sending them to heaven from hell, a hell created in Heaven in India.

I am sick of this Jehad and so called Freedom Movement.

Good so leave IOK. Don't expect the Kashmiris to stop fighting and as long as they fight they will find supporters in Pakistan.

 

[KRAIT]

@Albatross Yeah you made a nation for a religion. Doesn't mean you come and ask for a state just because there are 97% Muslims. BTW you sent Jehadis in Kashmir which killed Muslims in thousands of number. We know how much you care.

Kashmiri pundits were thrown out of their houses in millions, many years ago. That's why this demographic shift.

As for Muslims in Kashmir, they are much safer right now.

Cry as much as you want. Go to UN, OIC, US, China etc. Keep destroying your nation as much as you want over Kashmir.

Don't want to listen to your claims on Kashmir. I don't give a flying f***.

We won't give an inch. We will maintain the status quo on Kashmir. Period.

Good so leave IOK. Don't expect the Kashmiris to stop fighting and as long as they fight they will find supporters in Pakistan.

No boy. We won't.

 

[Chak Bamu]

My take is that TTP is an outfit that is using the name of Islam to gather power. Quite like Fazlullah in Swat. This is actually quite common. What makes them different is that they are able to recruit people who are bent on revenge. Also, the desperate people who have nothing to lose apart from their lives are driving the dynamics inside the organization.

Pathans have a long history of upstarts gathering power by any means possible and taking on the power structure in an effort to replace it. This has often happened on the village and clan level for many centuries in the past. There is always someone to challenge the 'Big Khan'. If they succeed, their efforts pay off big time. They then have to crush all the challengers ruthlessly as the incumbent 'Big Khan'. This has been an oft-repeated cycle. In case of TTP, there came an opportunity to use religion for the sake of gathering power. These people pay lip service to Mullah Umar, but do not follow him actually. He has specifically asked TTP to desist from attacking PA and focus on Afghan resistance, but TTP's game remains unchanged.

I think there are four layers 1. The top decision-makers, Pathans or Pakhtuns. 2. The people who are willing to kill themselves to avenge the death of their loved ones, the cannon fodder or suicide material. 3. The hard-core non-Pathan Pakistanis (Punjabi Taliban) and non-Pakistani jihadists (Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks, etc...). 4. Miscellaneous locals in the ranks who either agree with Taliban or are with them to earn a living.

Each of these layers is separate and distinct. For each of them our government must adopt a different approach.

The above is based on some personal interviews, perusal of information publicly available, and own thoughts. I can be wrong. If someone disagrees with me, I would welcome their perspective and hope to learn and modify my views.

I must caution about one thing though. It is too easy, tempting even, to label someone as a supporter of Taliban based on their willingness to engage. Such a course of action would not yield any positive results. One must be open-minded and willing to listen. Otherwise this forum would just fall to the level of PakDef.
@haviZsultan, you have taken a lead in this, but you are also being a little judgemental. @Zarvan should be free to express his views without being labelled as Taliban sympathizer. The blowback in shape of TTP should have been expected. In my private conversations, I had expressed my apprehensions in this regard. If I could predict this (no-brainer) then so should have our leadership at that time. But then Musharraf was busy being his enlightened-moderate (and intoxicated) self.

Havi, Last but not least. Pls do not put words in my mouth. If you think I am a certain way, then pls ask for clarification instead of labeling me. I own that I do not like Qadianis, but I am indifferent. You probably have not had any experience in dealing with them, but I have. Based on that experience, I can tell you that you know far too little to be judgemental about me. I grew up with some of them, I have seen their literature, I have read what others say about them, I have discussed a few things with them. Some have tried to convert me, and I have spoken to former-Qadianis. You do not seem to have done any of that. If you do not know that they consider us Muslims as Kaffirs, then there is a lot that you do not know. Religion does not seem to be your thing. But do understand that if you do not appreciate the difference between various and different perspectives, you can not be sure that your opinion can hold up to scrutiny. Being a journalist you should know that already. Either you should know what you are talking about, or you should not air your opinion. And labeling others definitely does not help here.

 

[haviZsultan]

@KRAIT you are correct there is a certain callous attitude towards killing when it takes place in another country rather than when it takes place at home. I have been noticing this with those group of people who seek to make a distinction between Pakistani and Afghan Taliban with purposes of justifying the actions of Afghan Taliban.

But note India is doing exactly the same thing and shows the exact same attitude. Examples are RSS killer attacking Gandhi and how it was initially being blamed on Muslims and Pakistan. Its a "denial" attitude, and its there in Pakistan and India-in India it was shown by Samjhauta bombings in which Pakistanis died.

However this has to do with the lack of trust between the two nations and the perception that the other nation is the greatest threat to each others existence.

 

[Albatross]

I accede that some of your points are correct. But these realities should not be used to shower the TTP in roses like some people do.



80% of the killings by Afghan taliban are afghan civilians so this is all pretty callous of us. We can't support terror in one country and when it happens in ours cry foul that they are not real taliban. Treat terrorists as terrorists. Don't sympathize with them because thats what they use to get power.
.

How can you be so sure of that ?? we all know the false flag operations of CIA throughout its history I admit there can be some mistakes on part of taliban but blaming them to kill deliberately their fellow afghanis for no reason is something hard to digest for me . On the other hand there are hundreds of occassions when Nato troops killed afghans civilians and they always got away with that...Besides its all very complicated all the attackers on major defence installations in Pakistan were foreigners what does that show? why we always find huge amounts of dollars with TTP and BLA men ?

where from they get it apparently they dont have any source of income?

To me its all just a game to blame Islam and its teachings , some people like fazal ullah might have thought of advocating sharia on the basis of bullets but they had very limited support its the salaried armed militia of armed uzbeks,tajiks,afghans and pashtuns who are otherwise jobless thats been labeled as TTP and fighting for shariah though in reality I doubt if they know even few basics of Islam but yes the afghan taliban indeed are fighting against aggressors ...I just ask you one question what was their crime?? when US asked for OBL after 9/11 they asked US to provide proof of his involvement something any sovereign nation would have done but instead they were bombed and captured ? Dont we all know who the capitalists are and what their agenda is ? To divide us on religious and ethnic lines then make us work for their purposes ..
It just makes me wonder when I see people so easily bring religion in this mess which has nothing to do with Islam.

 

[haviZsultan]

My take is that TTP is an outfit that is using the name of Islam to gather power. Quite like Fazlullah in Swat. This is actually quite common. What makes them different is that they are able to recruit people who are bent on revenge. Also, the desperate people who have nothing to lose apart from their lives are driving the dynamics inside the organization.

Pathans have a long history of upstarts gathering power by any means possible and taking on the power structure in an effort to replace it. This has often happened on the village and clan level for many centuries in the past. There is always someone to challenge the 'Big Khan'. If they succeed, their efforts pay off big time. They then have to crush all the challengers ruthlessly as the incumbent 'Big Khan'. This has been an oft-repeated cycle. In case of TTP, there came an opportunity to use religion for the sake of gathering power. These people pay lip service to Mullah Umar, but do not follow him actually. He has specifically asked TTP to desist from attacking PA and focus on Afghan resistance, but TTP's game remains unchanged.

I think there are four layers 1. The top decision-makers, Pathans or Pakhtuns. 2. The people who are willing to kill themselves to avenge the death of their loved ones, the cannon fodder or suicide material. 3. The hard-core non-Pathan Pakistanis (Punjabi Taliban) and non-Pakistani jihadists (Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks, etc...). 4. Miscellaneous locals in the ranks who either agree with Taliban or are with them to earn a living.

Each of these layers is separate and distinct. For each of them our government must adopt a different approach.

The above is based on some personal interviews, perusal of information publicly available, and own thoughts. I can be wrong. If someone disagrees with me, I would welcome their perspective and hope to learn and modify my views.

I must caution about one thing though. It is too easy, tempting even, to label someone as a supporter of Taliban based on their willingness to engage. Such a course of action would not yield any positive results. One must be open-minded and willing to listen. Otherwise this forum would just fall to the level of PakDef.
@haviZsultan, you have taken a lead in this, but you are also being a little judgemental. @Zarvan should be free to express his views without being labelled as Taliban sympathizer. The blowback in shape of TTP should have been expected. In my private conversations, I had expressed my apprehensions in this regard. If I could predict this (no-brainer) then so should have our leadership at that time. But then Musharraf was busy being his enlightened-moderate (and intoxicated) self.

Havi, Last but not least. Pls do not put words in my mouth. If you think I am a certain way, then pls ask for clarification instead of labeling me. I own that I do not like Qadianis, but I am indifferent. You probably have not had any experience in dealing with them, but I have. Based on that experience, I can tell you that you know far too little to be judgemental about me. I grew up with some of them, I have seen their literature, I have read what others say about them, I have discussed a few things with them. Some have tried to convert me, and I have spoken to former-Qadianis. You do not seem to have done any of that. If you do not know that they consider us Muslims as Kaffirs, then there is a lot that you do not know. Religion does not seem to be your thing. But do understand that if you do not appreciate the difference between various and different perspectives, you can not be sure that your opinion can hold up to scrutiny. Being a journalist you should know that already. Either you should know what you are talking about, or you should not air your opinion. And labeling others definitely does not help here.

Forgive me if I come out harsh sometimes. You know I respect your views on ethnic relations greatly and view you as a brilliant source in this regard. Personally we nationalists, our branch in Canada suffered and I partly blame the Islamists for it. I mean they were wrong and refuse to let any political organization survive on US behest which itself acts on Indian behest. But there is a mullah problem at home which is the cause of this. We are refusing to recognize it.

 

[Mitro]

ISI supporting TTP to attack its own army thats a news to me ,why should pakistan government give gaurantee to a terrorist responsible killing thousand of civilian and army personal.They should not even catch them ,kill them in cold blood ,killing innocent people in market place .its mandatory for all believer to fight and kill KHWARIJ MUNAFIQEEN

You forgot to add ISI among the supporters - hard to believe? pay attention to whom TTP has asked to guarantee talks with govt and the eagerness of the JI to gaurantee

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian I wasn't gloating over it. Just a casual sarcasm over people who call Kashmir insurgency as Jehad or Freedom fight, completely ignoring how many innocents have been killed in Kashmir alone.

You all are sick of terrorism in your country which has been for what, 10 years, we have been living under this for past 22-23 years.

My point is that when people tell us that their terror support is justified, then I ask what's the reason PA and ISI attacking its own citizen considered right action whereas they call Kashmir their people and kill innocents in name of their freedom.

Yes Pakistan have provided freedom to thousands, sending them to heaven from hell, a hell created in Heaven in India.

I am sick of this Jehad and so called Freedom Movement.

OK,

If you know my stance on Kashmir, you probably know that I sincerely believe that any militant AND military effort in Kashmir by India OR Pakistan is TOTALLY counterproductive. (see my posts and 100s of them against Jih@dis)

Now that i have cleared this bit upfront,

it just boggles my mind that Indian intellectuals will be so loose, careless, and childish in their approach to drag Kashmir in the discussions that have no mention of Kashmir or India in it.


Why?


Now that you my dear Krait, have dragged Kashmir

For many Pakistanis Kashmir is an issue based on constitution. And I am talking about Indian constitution that grants totally special and fundamentally different status to Kashmir as compared to any other state in India.

That once you grant a special status, you don't rob the population by trickery and thuggery from their political ambitions.


I hope you understand it now.

Both Indian and Pakistani intellectuals are responsible for letting the constitutional issue of Kashmir into a Jih@di issue. We let it fester for such a long time, we remained inactive for such a long time that a relatively simple constitutional issue got hijacked by the forces of evil, death, murder, and destruction.

Many Pakistanis are ignorant of God's wrath on those who create evil,

but

I am having hard time to understand why so many Indians fail to remember the wrath of Karma?

May be we should blame it on our era that happens to be Kal-yuga.


Bottom line: Unless we both Indian and Pakistani intellectuals don't accept our responsibilities, this old wound of Kashmir will not heal.


peace

 

[Albatross]

You forgot to add ISI among the supporters - hard to believe? pay attention to whom TTP has asked to guarantee talks with govt and the eagerness of the JI to gaurantee

Well why would ISI support someone who has killed even army men of the ranks as high as major general? TTP is waging a war against an army for last 5-6 years which needs huge money and according to you ISI is even providing that and what for?
ISI have done many mistakes and the biggest one were handing over pakistani's and other nationals to americans for the sake of money but its a little too big a conspiracy that they are actively killing their army men and innocent civilians for some sacred purpose and what that purpose would be ??? Care to elaborate???