Reflections on Islamist politics in the Bangladesh context

[Al-zakir]

Sorry to disappoint you, i am not a Pakistan and Urdu worshiper like you. I love Allah & his Rasul. Its up to Allah to judge who is Munafiq. If you are so confident about your Iman, i challange you pray to Allah to curse the one with lesser Iman between the two of us. I am ready when you are.

Urdu was designed for South Asians Muslims by the Muslims scholars as lingua franca. I find Urdu a lot more useful than Bangla in international arena.

I neither worship Pakistan nor Urdu. Nauzubillah min zalik.

I didn't called you Munafiq directly. I said be what ever you want but don't become a Munafiq. Read my post again.

 

[IamBengali]

'Islamist' is said in bad light. It is Islamic politics. In real sense not a single so called mainstream Islamic party is following Islam instead they follow extremism and Zionism.

Allah and his Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) say 'Don't wage war' yet in todays world we see Talibans and religious militants are waging war against humanity.

فَإِنِ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْا إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلًا

So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause for war against them.

Surah An-Nisa 4:90

وَإِن جَنَحُوا لِلسَّلْمِ فَاجْنَحْ لَهَا وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

If they incline to peace, then incline to it and rely upon Allah. Verily, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.

Surah Al-Anfal 8:61


لَا تَقْتُلُوا النِّسَاءَ وَلَا الصِّبْيَانَ وَلَا الشَّيْخَ الْكَبِيرَ وَلَا مَنْ أَلْقَى إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ وَكَفَ يَدَهُ فَإِنْ فَعَلْتُمْ هَذَا فَقَدَ اعْتَدَيْتُمْ

Do not kill women, or children, or old men, or whoever comes to you with peace and he restrains his hand from fighting; for if you did that, you would certainly have transgressed.

Source: Tafseer At-Tabari 2:190


دَعُوا الْحَبَشَةَ مَا وَدَعُوكُمْ وَاتْرُكُوا التُّرْكَ مَا تَرَكُوكُمْ

Leave the Abyssinians alone as long as they leave you alone; and leave the Turks alone as long as they leave you alone.

Source: Sunan Abu Dawud 4302, Grade: Sahih

إِنَّهُ سَيَكُونُ بَعْدِي اخْتِلَافٌ أَوْ أَمْرٌ فَإِنْ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَنْ تَكُونَ السِّلْمَ فَافْعَل

Verily, after me there will be conflicts or affairs, so if you are able to end them in peace, then do so.

Source: Musnad Ahmad 697, Grade: Sahih

 

[RAMPAGE]

i challange you pray to Allah to curse the one with lesser Iman between the two of us. I am ready when you are.

Astaghfirullah !!!!

I don't know what school of thought you belong to but let me tell you that none of the Imams, Sahaba or the Prophet ever challenged a fellow Muslim the way you did.

 

[Moander]

Astaghfirullah !!!!

I don't know what school of thought you belong to but let me tell you that none of the Imams, Sahaba or the Prophet ever challenged a fellow Muslim the way you did.

What would you do if someone indirectly try to say that you are a Munafiq or have a lesser Iman?

those trends you stated are real problems. i would add sedentary lifestyle which includes lack of opportunity for sports and healthy recreation, and imo is a big factor in drug abuse, bad health and other immorality plaguing the urban youth. but we can have discussion with other threads regarding that. it's not hard to know your reluctance towards threads like "Should we make a Petition to change the Devanagari script of Bangla!?". it is because of your exclusive opposition to such suggestion stemming from a lack of interest in Bengal's Muslim history. and it is not surprising either when i look at myself not too long ago. the ignorance a lot of us Bangladeshis have about our own selves is amazing.

History is one of my favorite subjects, i know about my Bengali Muslim heritage and proud of it. I am not obsessed about it. To me, Islam is more important.

 

[Moander]

Urdu was designed for South Asians Muslims by the Muslims scholars as lingua franca. I find Urdu a lot more useful than Bangla in international arena.

I neither worship Pakistan nor Urdu. Nauzubillah min zalik.

I didn't called you Munafiq directly. I said be what ever you want but don't become a Munafiq.
Read my post again.

Though you didn't call me Munafiq directly, but you indirectly meant it which i find most offensive.

Bangla served Islam better than Urdu could ever have. What Urdu have accomplished through out the history except tearing down Pakistan? If there were no Urdu, Pakistan wouldn't have lost its east wing. Spreading Islam in Bengali Language had been tremendously successful, we don't need Urdu.

 

[khair_ctg]

Though you didn't call me Munafiq directly, but you indirectly meant it which i find most offensive.

Bangla served Islam better than Urdu could ever have. What Urdu have accomplished through out the history except tearing down Pakistan? If there were no Urdu, Pakistan wouldn't have lost its east wing. Spreading Islam in Bengali Language had been tremendously successful, we don't need Urdu.

correction: if there was no imperialist minded India, United Pakistan wouldn't have lost its east wing. if there was no abundance of uneducated and ignorant people (ignorant about themselves) in East Pak, they wouldn't get used by foes, and United Pakistan wouldn't have lost its east wing. a language cannot be a culprit especially one that formed the subcontinental Muslim community and United Pakistan itself in the first place. there is no point saying which language is better. the bare fact is official Bengali at a point in history became the sole domain of Hindu pundits. and the exclusion of Muslims from the language and literature had significant impact on what it meant to be a Bengali. so to be a Bengali was to be a Hindu as well. and there is no mutual exclusivity between Bengali and Urdu. both languages have similar structures and lots of overlap. and Urdu is a language of Bengal. to say we "don't need it" is saying we don't need any language

 

[Moander]

correction: if there was no imperialist minded India, United Pakistan wouldn't have lost its east wing. if there was no abundance of uneducated and ignorant people (ignorant about themselves) in East Pak, they wouldn't get used by foes, and United Pakistan wouldn't have lost its east wing. a language cannot be a culprit especially one that formed the subcontinental Muslim community and United Pakistan itself in the first place. there is no point saying which language is better. the bare fact is official Bengali at a point in history became the sole domain of Hindu pundits. and the exclusion of Muslims from the language and literature had significant impact on what it meant to be a Bengali. so to be a Bengali was to be a Hindu as well. and there is no mutual exclusivity between Bengali and Urdu. both languages have similar structures and lots of overlap. and Urdu is a language of Bengal. to say we "don't need it" is saying we don't need any language

I don't how many times i have repeat myself, Can a language be Hindu? What you guys got against Bangla?

 

[khair_ctg]

I don't how many times i have repeat myself, Can a language be Hindu? What you guys got against Bangla?

i can speak only for myself. i think a language can definitely be associated with a particular community or communities. i assume you know about how the Muslim community in Bengal or the subcontinent historically started and grew. there was not one language that was associated with the Muslims or the Muslim domains. as lingua franca, Farsi was a major language and later, Urdu as well. regional languages, which were Indo-Aryan, also grew with the growing Muslim civilization. Bengali was a language that existed in various dialects and in insignificant literary forms outside a select group of Hindus. Bengali flourished under the Muslims, but more so as spoken dialects than as a literary medium. the Muslim literary medium of Bengali was insignificant not only compared to works in Urdu and Farsi (and also Arabic) from the region, but also compared to Muslim literary mediums of Punjabi (or Punjabi in Nastaliq) and other Indo-Aryan languages that came into Islamicate centres of influence.

my own argument is that this created the room necessary for Hindus to lay claim on Bengali language. this led to the development of the official Bengali during colonial era that became exclusively a Hindu language

 

[kalu_miah]

i can speak only for myself. i think a language can definitely be associated with a particular community or communities. i assume you know about how the Muslim community in Bengal or the subcontinent historically started and grew. there was not one language that was associated with the Muslims or the Muslim domains. as lingua franca, Farsi was a major language and later, Urdu as well. regional languages, which were Indo-Aryan, also grew with the growing Muslim civilization. Bengali was a language that existed in various dialects and in insignificant literary forms outside a select group of Hindus. Bengali flourished under the Muslims, but more so as spoken dialects than as a literary medium. the Muslim literary medium of Bengali was insignificant not only compared to works in Urdu and Farsi (and also Arabic) from the region, but also compared to Muslim literary mediums of Punjabi (or Punjabi in Nastaliq) and other Indo-Aryan languages that came into Islamicate centres of influence.

my own argument is that this created the room necessary for Hindus to lay claim on Bengali language. this led to the development of the official Bengali during colonial era that became exclusively a Hindu language

I hold past generations of Bengal Muslim elite/ashraf class before 1757, responsible for this predicament, they were short sighted, now we are paying the price. Urdu or Hindawi was much more well developed in Nastaliq script, so it was ready to take over as the main language for Muslims as soon as Persian was abolished by the British and replaced with English.

Note here, it was a very carefully crafted goal and decades long effort of the British to first learn Persian, hire a whole bunch of Persian translators (Munshi's) at Fort William college, translate all Mughal documents from Persian to English and Urdu, starting from from 1780's. Finally when the job was done, they abolished Persian in 1830's. Muslims of India still could not recover from that blow.

But there is a way to correct past mistakes, that is to move away from this Sanskritized Bangla that was imposed on Muslim Bengali's since the creation of this abomination in Fort William college and later during Bengal renaissance in Kolkata.