Record of Mosque Hints at Muslims’ Long History in New York

[Icarus]

The Great Melting Pot is hot and boiling, as always, Sir. The present environment is only being stoked by the silliness of the election campaign, and does not represent any long lasting changes with US society itself. Much of rural America remains conservative and even views both the coasts as being hippies and liberals (just like in any other large country).

Don't believe me? Let's wait for the nominations to finalize for both parties and the elections to proceed. If I am still here, we can talk about how all the present hoopla was just electioneering as the new administration gets to work. I will predict that much of the policies will remain unchanged, no matter who gets the White House.

I would like to think that, hoping for a good outcome from all of this nonsense. But the global situation in itself is becoming dismal, it is becoming increasingly tough for a brown guy to not be treated as the perpetrator of crimes he did not commit. Due in part to the role that some muslims have been playing in Europe. The spill over of that into American Politics and society was what I found to be very troubling.
Bush may have been far from an ideal leader, but he had the good sense to not paint the WoT as a neo-Crusade, something that Trump and his camp seem hell bent on doing. That makes the job a lot more tougher for us. You have no idea how popular Trump is becoming in jihadi recruitment videos these days.

 

[xyxmt]

I would say Canadians are the most tolerant people.

no they are no 2

 

[VCheng]

I would like to think that, hoping for a good outcome from all of this nonsense. But the global situation in itself is becoming dismal, it is becoming increasingly tough for a brown guy to not be treated as the perpetrator of crimes he did not commit. Due in part to the role that some muslims have been playing in Europe. The spill over of that into American Politics and society was what I found to be very troubling.
Bush may have been far from an ideal leader, but he had the good sense to not paint the WoT as a neo-Crusade, something that Trump and his camp seem hell bent on doing. That makes the job a lot more tougher for us. You have no idea how popular Trump is becoming in jihadi recruitment videos these days.

Much of what is happening globally, specially in the areas of the "brown guy"s, as you put it, has nothing to do with skin color or even religion. It is only international geopolitics in all its color-blind atheistic glory at work, as always. Nearly all of the Muslim majority countries are now facing up to all the failures and storms that they themselves have brewed in their midst for decades. That is all there is to it. The spillover into the Western liberal societies will be limited, at worst, and very likely temporary, at best.

Trump as a jihadi recruiter may work for the jihadis, but that is about all. If it were not Trump, it would be something or someone else. This use of anti-US sentiment has been honed to an art form by many, not just the jihadis, present forum included, dare I say it, as an example. The funny thing is that such hatred burns up the hater in the long run, not the hated.

 

[Icarus]

Much of what is happening globally, specially in the areas of the "brown guy"s, as you put it, has nothing to do with skin color or even religion. It is only international geopolitics in all its color-blind atheistic glory at work, as always. Nearly all of the Muslim majority countries are now facing up to all the failures and storms that they themselves have brewed in their midst for decades. That is all there is to it. The spillover into the Western liberal societies will be limited, at worst, and very likely temporary, at best.

Agreed, muslim countries need to get their act together unless they want to find much of the world off-limits for themselves. The actions of a few people are affecting the lives of thousands of people everyday. Just about a month ago, a friend of mine working with Accenture in the UK was denied the chance to attend a corporate training event in Madrid because his Pakistani passport required four weeks for visa processing whereas others got their's in a period of 72 hours.
My heart went out for him as he felt really dejected about it and it will affect his chances of promotion. Although he did nothing to deserve it, a lot of other people bearing the same passport did bring this upon themselves. A bit of soul searching in these turbulent times will go a long way.

Trump as a jihadi recruiter may work for the jihadis, but that is about all. If it were not Trump, it would be something or someone else. This use of anti-US sentiment has been honed to an art form by many, not just the jihadis, present forum included, dare I say it, as an example. The funny thing is that such hatred burns up the hater in the long run, not the hated.

The "us vs them" argument are as old as when man first looked at a plot of land and decided to call it his own. Though I agree that there is this local habit of finding escapes from our situation and USA, Israel among a plethora of non-existent (you'll be surprised how many people still blame KGB for stuff that goes on in Pak) entities serve as convenient patsies. That being said however, the other side of the picture also bears similar sentiments which brings us back to where we started how a lot of people are being vilified for no fault of their own.

Quite the conundrum then, isn't it?

 

[VCheng]

Quite the conundrum then, isn't it?

Fair comments Sir, but I have no doubt that this conundrum, like all the ones before in human history, will get resolved.

(And create more.)

 

[Icarus]

Fair comments Sir, but I have no doubt that this conundrum, like all the ones before in human history, will get resolved.

(And create more.)

Indeed, what is human history but moments of trial before one's death? I dare say there has not been a single moment in the history of mankind where one could say there was absolute peace.

 

[VCheng]

Indeed, what is human history but moments of trial before one's death? I dare say there has not been a single moment in the history of mankind where one could say there was absolute peace.

Yes, that is true, and as part of this continuous warfare, certain sections of humanity do get vilified for "no fault of their own" as you put it. It is just that it is the turn of people that look like you and me whose turn it happens to be, for the moment. This, too, shall pass.

 

[Icarus]

Yes, that is true, and as part of this continuous warfare, certain sections of humanity do get vilified for "no fault of their own" as you put it. It is just that it is the turn of people that look like you and me whose turn it happens to be, for the moment. This, too, shall pass.

For a moment, I almost forgot that you too must look like us sorry lot

 

[VCheng]

For a moment, I almost forgot that you too must look like us sorry lot

I do. Probably worse.

 

[Icarus]

I do. Probably worse.

God help you in these times! :-D

 

[VCheng]

God help you in these times! :-D

I ask for His help in all times, good and bad. And I will also tell you that these times are not that bad. Really. Just keep in mind that these are the good old days of tomorrow.

 

[Icarus]

I ask for His help in all times, good and bad. And I will also tell you that these times are not that bad. Really. Just keep in mind that these are the good old days of tomorrow.

Cheers to the good old days of tomorrow!

 

[Dubious]

Actually, more White American were called Terrorist then Brown people in the US.

Yes I agree...BUT

How many times and how long does the media repeat it? And how many whites are called terrorists and not mentally ill? Or how many have their religion or ideas blamed? How many are actually put back on the media as a reminder that not only 1 group is to be hated and have their mosques vandalized? Where the choice to cover her body is questioned? and so on...

It is a misnomer that people think American only label Middle Eastern "terrorist" while White or whatever other race would only be "Mass Killing" in fact, under FBI classification of Terrorist Attack and Under the USC18,the definition of Terrorist Attack. Only about 30% were carry out by Muslim/Middle Eastern people. In the last 16 attacks labelled "Terrorist Attack" during the last 5 years, only 5 were carry out by Muslim, if I remember correctly 3 of them are actually white American which converted to Islam

These are facts BUT how many locals digest these FACTS?

Domestic Attacks are the number 1 source of Terrorist attack in the United States, but since you don't live in the US, this is something you will hardly heard of, but I can tell you this, White Supremacist group and Anarchy group are more of a problem then Muslim extremist in the US.

Again facts yet no one tells the white to go back where they came from if 1 white gets "mentally ill" ?

Just questions that arose...

"Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"

So when a person just like that goes to a school and shoots he is definitely mentally ill. If he thinks irish folks dont deserve to go to school and hence deems it suitable to shoot innocent school kids then it is terrorism. Understand the difference.

Well, then if a brown man kills, blows something or even "plans" to do something ...why is he not mentally challenged as compared to this one:

But if a kid comes to a govt school and starts shooting govt employed teachers and students....well, I dont know it does come under the general public, a group of persons (students) and it is unjustifiable, no?

calling our children mentally ill.

Your media calls them mentally ill not me....

I brought that part up you efficiently ignored the context hence not my fault!

I live in the U.S. A loyal U.S citizen. But lets be real...you know there's a huge section of our society that is insecure of the changing American realities, is willing to paint "others" (non-whites) with broad brushes, and holds bigoted view of minorities.

Its not all anti-U.S propaganda. When a leading Republic candidate says stuff like "Mexicans are rapists" or "Muslims (not radicals, Muslims!) should be banned from entering US" and uses Japanese internment as an example to follow and STILL consistently polls at 45% in GOP primaries...you know that its not only anti-US propaganda that is making the U.S look bad in the world. And how about call of Republicans to let "christian Syrians" in while keeping the "Muslim Syrians" out. Yes, explicit calls for religious discrimination even by "moderate" Republicans like Jeb Bush (who is a governor of one of the biggest state of our union).You think that doesn't have any effect on how people view us?

Non-Americans aren't used to the pre-primaries over the top rhetoric and do take it more seriously than many Americans do.

@Akheilos There's an old, insecure, and bigoted America that is being replaced by new, vibrant, young, and diverse America. American coastal metropolis and population centers are just fine to live and that's where majority of American population lives.

Life for U.S Muslims is kind of nervous but not bad. Even when there are hundreds of hate crimes, do understand that these hundreds of hate crimes are in relevance to millions of Muslims living all across the nation. So although it might sound bad in the news, but in real life--things are fine for now.

However, there is NO doubt that Muslim-Americans today are relatively the worst-treated group when it comes to bigoted rhetoric and insult/humiliation in the media. Major American news channel peddle anti-Muslim conspiracy theories to tens of millions of Americans without even checking wikipedia!! (Can give examples after examples, if my fellow Americans find it hard to believe. Again, I'll give examples from prime-time mainstream television, and not from some unknown American website and all).

Thank you bro for being truthful ....I am aware of what happens very much aware....I dont talk about the tolerant good Americans....they are Americans...I talk about the bigots who claim to be Americans but fail to see the constitution giving EVERYONE irrespective of colour religion and whatnot but these bigots seem to think that America belongs to the whites who killed the natives

 

[jhungary]

Yes I agree...BUT

How many times and how long does the media repeat it? And how many whites are called terrorists and not mentally ill? Or how many have their religion or ideas blamed? How many are actually put back on the media as a reminder that not only 1 group is to be hated and have their mosques vandalized? Where the choice to cover her body is questioned? and so on...

They will only be called terrorist if they fit the definition, and the definition is defined as per US Code 138 I have quoted them way too many time. If you want to know, just go google it.

Media do frequently call those white terrorist. The problem is, you won't hear them simply because they are domestic. It make no sense to broadcast them internationally. I mean, sometime they do if they (the attack) were picking up dust like Charles Manson or the Una Bomber, but most of the time they are what we called "small time terrorist" which usually have or had an argument with the authority. People such as Christopher Dorner (former LAPD officer killed 4 in Riverside back in 2013) or Shannon Richardson or Frederick Thomas (Both related to Ricin Attacks) or Eric Rudolph (which related to some bombing) or Earl Krugel were virtually never heard of, outside the US, but were extensively known in the US, and this is just a few name. If I were to name Terrorist now, I can name a lot more White people than Middle Eastern, but most of the time, you will not hear about them anyway. Hence you will think US only name Brown people as terrorist.

Eric Rudolph

LAPD: Fugitive ex-cop a 'domestic terrorist'

Earl Krugel: Death of an American Jewish Terrorist Tikun-Olam Tikun Olam-תיקון עולם

Just because you don't know something exist, that does not equal to they don't exist.

And you do know hate crime don't pick on particular religion? When you have some sort of red neck going on a rampage, they don't really care which religion they offend, as long as they are not "their" religion

Hindu temple vandalized in US; protests in India

LDS Church releases statement after vandals damage Fort Collins Temple construction site | Deseret News

Hindu temple vandalised in Texas, devil worship symbols spray-painted | world | Hindustan Times

Buddhist temple vandalized for second time in two weeks - wave3.com-Louisville News, Weather & Sports

Buddhist temple repeatedly vandalized in Santa Ana, CA - Update: Suspect Caught - World Religion News

Zen Mirror: Continued Vandalism in Buddhist Temples

The problem is you are Muslim, I guess you do not have any interest other than your own religion hence you won't pick up those news, but the fact is, other religion places also being vandalize from time to time, this is not a single out on Islam.

And I have no idea on what do you mean by covering her body part...

These are facts BUT how many locals digest these FACTS?

I cannot speak for others, but they do got intense coverage locally, especially the state where those attack were located. of course being covered does not means people will listen to it, so I cannot say for sure how people digest these facts.

You are picking about the "Dumb" level of people in the US, of course there are always redneck, but not all American were red neck, by the way, I did not compile those statistic. So, somebody in the US have to be able to digest those fact first, before I can quote it.

Again facts yet no one tells the white to go back where they came from if 1 white gets "mentally ill" ?

Just questions that arose...

lol, go back to where they come from? They are called "Domestic" terrorist for the reason they are "LOCAL", if you tell them to "Go back to where you come from". They don't came from anywhere, they are local, hence "Domestic" terrorist, emphasis on the "DOMESTIC" part.

 

[Dubious]

They will only be called terrorist if they fit the definition, and the definition is defined as per US Code 138 I have quoted them way too many time. If you want to know, just go google it.

So the definition doesnt define a mad man shooting as a terrorist crime but if they happen to be brown suddenly they have an agenda and a label to fit the agenda?

What about those looneys who have an agenda to white wash America? How is thart not an agenda? How is that not fitting the bill? but rather fits insanity? the white kid who shot at the Black church had an agenda to get rid of Black folks but was never called a terrorist even if terrorized a community!

you won't hear them simply because they are domestic. It make no sense to broadcast them internationally

Yet same media thinks its their business to know about the local mishaps of other countries? and sell them to their viewers? How is that right in any language?

"small time terrorist"

So there is a big time and small time?

What about that bomber whose bomb did go off in a mall but wasnt called a terrorist?

If I were to name Terrorist now, I can name a lot more White people than Middle Eastern, but most of the time, you will not hear about them anyway. Hence you will think US only name Brown people as terrorist.

Then why are Masjids vandalized? Browns targeted and assumed to be evil? Black slammed by police? Muslim women abused and scarfs pulled? But the white ladies arent abused by the white barbarians nor are the whites told to leave the land and go back home......

Why the double face?

And you do know hate crime don't pick on particular religion? When you have some sort of red neck going on a rampage, they don't really care which religion they offend, as long as they are not "their" religion

And yet no one tells the red neck to go bury themselves in their ignorance and dont show their face in public now do you?


They came out in protest with guns outside a place of worship thanks to media showing them to be fearful of something they havent heard of (Islam) but have viewed from tv which tells them ISIS which when it started was a local problem which somehow got enough international coverage to cause hatred for a group! Media is somehow causing terrorism against Islam ( according to definition that fits! )

The problem is you are Muslim, I guess you do not have any interest other than your own religion hence you won't pick up those news, but the fact is, other religion places also being vandalize from time to time, this is not a single out on Islam.

1) Yes I am a Muslim
2) Yes I am well aware other people's places of worship are also vandalized...But half of the ignorant troops mention they taught it was linked to Islam so aagain it is back to hatred for Islam and of course alot for race (Chinese and INDIANS TAKING MY JOB BS)!

And I have no idea on what do you mean by covering her body part...

So it is news to you that some women got their headscarf either made fun of or got it ripped off their heads?
Or some men talking Arabic were not allowed on flights just coz some bigot couldnt understand what they were saying? fear of the unknown unseen unheard is self fed fear?

I cannot speak for others, but they do got intense coverage locally, especially the state where those attack were located. of course being covered does not means people will listen to it, so I cannot say for sure how people digest these facts.

So people wont listen when it involves their skin colour or their look alike unless its a different people of colour race and religion? Interesting level of ignorance!

You are picking about the "Dumb" level of people in the US, of course there are always redneck, but not all American were red neck, by the way, I did not compile those statistic. So, somebody in the US have to be able to digest those fact first, before I can quote it.

ok


But then same benefit of the doubt should be allowed for EVERY country, right?

lol, go back to where they come from? They are called "Domestic" terrorist for the reason they are "LOCAL", if you tell them to "Go back to where you come from". They don't came from anywhere, they are local, hence "Domestic" terrorist, emphasis on the "DOMESTIC" part.

Every American came from some place excelpt the locas i.e. American Indians....who were called that by the white guy who got lost and thought he landed in India

SO if a 3rd generation Brown can be told to go back where he/ she came from so can a 2nd or 4th generation white, right?

Oh btw, does this mean a 2nd generation Brown is not local enough to fit in domestic terrorism? Why the difference? Why call him / her by their descend and not say a child of British/ Spanish/ Norwegian descendant opened fire at school today?