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Real Role of USA, UK, EU, Israel, Russia, China in 1971 Bengal-PAK-India War

India, Israel are True Enemies of Pakistan, Islam and Muslims

  • Yes

  • No

  • Yes and No in between, Vague

  • Not Sure

  • Dovnot Care about India, Pakistan, Bangladesh as they are 3rd World countries Anyway


Results are only viewable after voting.
btw India had attacked East Pakistan on the 21 November 1971 as far as i know, so your argument that the strikes on 3 December 1971 were preemptive is invalid
 
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Do you really believe 800 year old prophecies? To be honest i don't even believe the Weatherman. If I were you I would stay away from these conspiracy theories until you are at least 25 years old. They are not good for mental health.

Don't you have any cute boys in your class ? Or your parents don't let you date ?
Why do you want to convince him otherwise?
Why do Indians have to act as sanctimonious pricks ?

Let him believe that. Pakistan is probably the best country in the world to have as an enemy - their intelligence is highly questionable and their actions from military to diplomatic levels is as though they are in a street fight.

They keep shooting themselves in the foot and then blame the rest of the world in their concocted views. This is good for us.

The only thing they do that causes issues for us is that they behave like a rentier state. They rent out and bow down before Arabs, Americans..now Chinese. Basically anyone who is willing to lend them some strength to fight India. This causes larger issues for India at a world level.

And lastly...they never ever learn from their mistakes. They keep repeating. I guess it comes from a culture who has to look backwards in time and to a different region of the world altogether to have a sense of glory.
Therefore..they are a perfect enemy to have.

Let them mellow. You or anyone else does not have to point out to them right or wrong.
 
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Why do you want to convince him otherwise?
Why do Indians have to act as sanctimonious pricks ?

Let him believe that. Pakistan is probably the best country in the world to have as an enemy - their intelligence is highly questionable and their actions from military to diplomatic levels is as though they are in a street fight.

They keep shooting themselves in the foot and then blame the rest of the world in their concocted views. This is good for us.

The only thing they do that causes issues for us is that they behave like a rentier state. They rent out and bow down before Arabs, Americans..now Chinese. Basically anyone who is willing to lend them some strength to fight India. This causes larger issues for India at a world level.

And lastly...they never ever learn from their mistakes. They keep repeating. I guess it comes from a culture who has to look backwards in time and to a different region of the world altogether to have a sense of glory.
Therefore..they are a perfect enemy to have.

Let them mellow. You or anyone else does not have to point out to them right or wrong.

LOL, Ok.. I think she is a girl not a boy and I think she googles conspiracy theories when her mom thinks she is studying. she doesn't yet have the life experience to recognize these people as the scam artists and in some cases criminals that they are. so I was trying to be helpful! but obviously water off a ducks back!

You are right Pakistan never ever learns from their mistakes and the main reason is that they are always willing to believe the latest conspiracy theory sold to them by motivated rascals, no point trying. How can you learn from your mistakes if you never know what really happened....or what really happened is just One theory among many competing fairy stories.
 
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Since when Arabs renamed all the places in India in their mother togue?

Since the English, Persian's named half of the places in South Asia the Arab's thought 'Hey we might as well finish off the rest'.

Ignorent !
 
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East Pakistan is now a separate country, yes it was a very sad incident, a very bad and permanent mark on the History of Pakistan, but we should now worry about making the Baluchis happy, k?
 
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Since the English, Persian's named half of the places in South Asia the Arab's thought 'Hey we might as well finish off the rest'.

Ignorent !

Seems you are correct, they wanted to finish off the rest by day dreaming like this map.
 
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Why do you want to convince him otherwise?
Why do Indians have to act as sanctimonious pricks ?

Let him believe that. Pakistan is probably the best country in the world to have as an enemy - their intelligence is highly questionable and their actions from military to diplomatic levels is as though they are in a street fight.

They keep shooting themselves in the foot and then blame the rest of the world in their concocted views. This is good for us.

The only thing they do that causes issues for us is that they behave like a rentier state. They rent out and bow down before Arabs, Americans..now Chinese. Basically anyone who is willing to lend them some strength to fight India. This causes larger issues for India at a world level.

And lastly...they never ever learn from their mistakes. They keep repeating. I guess it comes from a culture who has to look backwards in time and to a different region of the world altogether to have a sense of glory.
Therefore..they are a perfect enemy to have.

Let them mellow. You or anyone else does not have to point out to them right or wrong.


With the exception of superpowers or countries with billion plus people rest of us have to contend with circumstances of geopolitics to behave as you say like 'rentier' states. Japan, UK, Germany, Poland, South Korea, Turkey and more are actually far better examples of 'rentier' states than Pakistan.

I can only marvel at how you can make comment on culture with a straight face. Watch Bollywood and half of the words are Arabic or Persian, the songs are probably copies of Pakistani songs. The dress style is heavily fashioned from outside India most probably from some Muslim culture.

Most of all the entire foundation of 'Mother India' rests on using the heritage of what is now Pakistan. Gandhara, Greek Kingdoms, Harappa, Mohenjo Daro and all the rest are used by India to build up their image. Even the name 'India' is English and only has 300 years currency. 'Hind' was Persian.

So it appears rich of you to find faults in us but your entire edifice would fall apart without all the extranous inputs you use in India.

and only a crafty individuel would survive for nearly 70 years of poking a Goliath seven times larger then itself. I would ask you to look at a very simple scenario as shown below?

1.
China versus India

2.
China
China
China
China
China
China
China versus India

You struggle even with scenario (1) god forbid what if China was seven times larger I wonder what would happen to the China versus India contest?

I let you answer that question.

Seems you are correct, they wanted to finish off the rest by day dreaming like this map.

No sadly I am not. The map is from 1930 well before 1947 not after.
 
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With the exception of superpowers or countries with billion plus people rest of us have to contend with circumstances of geopolitics to behave as you say like 'rentier' states. Japan, UK, Germany, Poland, South Korea, Turkey and more are actually far better examples of 'rentier' states than Pakistan.

I can only marvel at how you can make comment on culture with a straight face. Watch Bollywood and half of the words are Arabic or Persian, the songs are probably copies of Pakistani songs. The dress style is heavily fashioned from outside India most probably from some Muslim culture.

Most of all the entire foundation of 'Mother India' rests on using the heritage of what is now Pakistan. Gandhara, Greek Kingdoms, Harappa, Mohenjo Daro and all the rest are used by India to build up their image. Even the name 'India' is English and only has 300 years currency. 'Hind' was Persian.

So it appears rich of you to find faults in us but your entire edifice would fall apart without all the extranous inputs you use in India.
Circumstances of geopolitics is a canard. Pakistan is blessed with everything a nation can want i.e fertile land, access to Sea and a large demography.
The need to be a rentier state is the consequence of a desire of expansion and acquisition of what Pakistan does not have(Kashmir) and thus the need for conflict with India.

If only Pakistan starts getting content with what it has, it can leave those states like South Korea, Turkey, UK, etc behind in development.

As far as India is concerned, there is a reason why this region is called the Indian subcontinent. India is a vast country..so to pick and choose aspects of one region of India(north west) and to say that it is what defines India is ignorant. A mistake that most Pakistanis commit regularly because they feel more comfortable with the culture of this area. India is equally defined by the Ashoka or Chandragupta as it is by Gandhara or Taxila. The Constitution gives two official names of this country - India and Bharat.

All that aside..What is most important here is that- India does not look up to Pakistan or Afghanistan or any other country for inspiration and guidance or as pinnacle of glory like Pakistanis do towards Middle East. That is the key difference which leads to different attitudes of the public.

However, we digress. Why is it that Pakistani analysis from everyone - senior bureaucrats to military ends up looking like a street bragging or slanging match. Why is it that Pakistan persists with repeating its mistakes again and again and not learning from them and changing tact. I await your explanation on this then if you feel mine is wrong.

You seem to be under an assumption that Pakistan being able to poke India and keep surviving is a major deal- I already told you why it is not. Pakistan acts as a rentier state - by aligning with countries that lend strength(directly or indirectly) to Pakistan for fighting with India. Same why Japan being less than 100 times smaller than China challenges them directly or Korea does to China or Vietnam does to China.

It takes no big effort to become a rentier state and challenge a bigger power. India could do it as well.

Whether it is a wise choice - is an altogether different question. There are costs that come with being such a state as well - which I am sure you realize by now.
 
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Circumstances of geopolitics is a canard. Pakistan is blessed with everything a nation can want i.e fertile land, access to Sea and a large demography.
The need to be a rentier state is the consequence of a desire of expansion and acquisition of what Pakistan does not have(Kashmir) and thus the need for conflict with India.

If only Pakistan starts getting content with what it has, it can leave those states like South Korea, Turkey, UK, etc behind in development.

As far as India is concerned, there is a reason why this region is called the Indian subcontinent. India is a vast country..so to pick and choose aspects of one region of India(north west) and to say that it is what defines India is ignorant. A mistake that most Pakistanis commit regularly because they feel more comfortable with the culture of this area. India is equally defined by the Ashoka or Chandragupta as it is by Gandhara or Taxila. The Constitution gives two official names of this country - India and Bharat.

All that aside..What is most important here is that- India does not look up to Pakistan or Afghanistan or any other country for inspiration and guidance or as pinnacle of glory like Pakistanis do towards Middle East. That is the key difference which leads to different attitudes of the public.

However, we digress. Why is it that Pakistani analysis from everyone - senior bureaucrats to military ends up looking like a street bragging or slanging match. Why is it that Pakistan persists with repeating its mistakes again and again and not learning from them and changing tact. I await your explanation on this then if you feel mine is wrong.

You seem to be under an assumption that Pakistan being able to poke India and keep surviving is a major deal- I already told you why it is not. Pakistan acts as a rentier state - by aligning with countries that lend strength(directly or indirectly) to Pakistan for fighting with India. Same why Japan being less than 100 times smaller than China challenges them directly or Korea does to China or Vietnam does to China.

It takes no big effort to become a rentier state and challenge a bigger power. India could do it as well.

Whether it is a wise choice - is an altogether different question. There are costs that come with being such a state as well - which I am sure you realize by now.


It's a canard from the Indian perspective. Do allow for the possibility of us having differant perspectives. In your post you contradict yourself. You seem to imply that logic dictates that Pakistan should not challange India however you then go on to mention Japan and Korea who you state despite their tiny size are challenging China.

That seems acceptable to you. Japan and South Korea can challenge China. Why? The only differance here is Japan, south Korea are focussed on China and Pakistan on India. Why is the former acceptable even laudable in your interpretation but so wrong for Pakistan with regards to India?

As regards the rentier state the only way South Korea or Japan can even dream of facing China is by by wholesale auction of their 'rentier' value to USA. They both house massive US bases. There are regular protests by Okinawa residents against US military bases because of rape etc.

That is what you call 'rentier state'.
 
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It's a canard from the Indian perspective. Do allow for the possibility of us having differant perspectives. In your post you contradict yourself. You seem to imply that logic dictates that Pakistan should not challange India however you then go on to mention Japan and Korea who you state despite their tiny size are challenging China.

That seems acceptable to you. Japan and South Korea can challenge China. Why? The only differance here is Japan, south Korea are focussed on China and Pakistan on India. Why is the former acceptable even laudable in your interpretation but so wrong for Pakistan with regards to India?

As regards the rentier state the only way South Korea or Japan can even dream of facing China is by by wholesale auction of their 'rentier' value to USA. They both house massive US bases. There are regular protests by Okinawa residents against US military bases because of rape etc.

That is what you call 'rentier state'.
A hypocrite, I am not. I am not implying that Korea or Japan challenging China is acceptable or laudable while it is not so for Pakistan.
However, I'll tell you a difference between them. In this case, the Chinese are aggressive and wish to take territory(sea/islands) that is not in anyone's possession that all of them claim. In our scenario, Pakistan covets territory that India already has..whereas India does not covet territory that Pakistan has.

There comes the difference. It is the weaker/smaller State that is aggressive and to effect their desire, they seek the support of larger powers and become rentiers.
In the South China Sea scenario - it is the larger/stronger State that is aggressive and the weaker State has become a rentier to be able to defend.

One is out of choice, the other is out of necessity. The price of being a rentier State is high and manifests over decades and so most people are not able to spot it and opt for it keeping the immediate benefit in mind. You however are seeing the effect of the decisions your previous dictators and President's have made and see the costs.
 
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Is it going to be possible to undo the partition and make India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan into one country? Will that make these problems go away from this region? Will people of the region agree to such a vision for the future?

I know these questions have been raised many times before, but to me that seems to be the only long term solution that will bring peace in this region. Otherwise the rivalry and fighting will continue on, till people get tired eventually and come to realize that there is no other alternative to a United States of South Asia.

Why not save countless lives and misery and accept now what seems like a fail accompli in the future.
 
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interesting since the father of the nuclear bomb in India was a Muslim :-)
 
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You are right.
We cannot undo the partition, that would be stupidity. Partition has had some benefits too. It certainly gave bengalis in bangladesh freedom to save their cultural identity. Muslims in pakistan some say in their own destiny.

Problem is how we do it, by violence or by talks. Brittain,france,germany did the same thing for centuries together.
People in south asia are not mature enough. Take for example in europe jingoism is nearly dead except for a fringe section. Citizens there outrightly oppose violence to settle disputes. In south asia , even for cricket matches we act like sick gorilla's forgetting it is just a sport.

Remember ppl like politicians always want to maintain status quo , it favours them. Nawaz/zardari will always say kashmir to hide his feudal ways and corruption. Congress/BJP will simply harp on pakistan to spend billions on defence to get kick backs.

Every system thrives including corruption , bcos we benefit from it.

As far I can see partition created the rivalries and fighting we see today. Most Bangladeshi's today are fluent in Hindi from watching Hindi movies. If we leave out Kashmir, Muslims in India have more peaceful lives than Muslims in Bangladesh or Pakistan, so what actually did we gain from partition? Only some rich folks and politicians are making millions and billions. Those are the one's that are benefiting from this system, not the masses.

Britain, France and Germany has their long history of nationhood and kingdoms. These 4 South Asian countries do not have that kind of history of nationhood. What we have is the history of coexistence since the time of Delhi Sultanate and Mughal empire. Those were the longest stretches of nationhood for all 4 countries, as they were in both of these empires, at least most parts, if not all. Both empires tried to unify this region by force. And then we had British India, which did not include Afghanistan. Partition in last 70 years brought nothing but misery for this region and I see no end in sight till it is undone. How it will be undone, that will be for people in this region to figure out, but that is my current assessment. Partition created a huge imbalance and balance will not be found till it is undone.
 
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Their was U.S.S.R (Union Of Soviet Socialist Republic) which has been reduced to Russia so 1 down 2 more to go.
 
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