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RD-93 Engine: Strength or Weakness?

Hmmm, Thanks Batman.

BTW, in my personal opinion, Thrust Vectoring is only good for air shows when i see new WVR and BVR missiles and crazy amount of G's they can pull i think it will be a stupid idea to relay on tactics like Thrust Vectoring specially for PAF which is intended to defend its own sky and will have no need to return quickly after conducting a strike/ air combat. Attacking enemy territory is an other thing but i don't think Thunders will be used there as much.
 
It is bi-directional thrust vectoring. Example is SU-30 MKI.
 
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Following is automatic translation:
Rosoboronexport is preparing to sign a contract with China for 100 Russia RD-93 engines with increased thrust, told "AviaPort" a source in the military-industrial complex. "Техническое задание с инозаказчиком уже согласовано. Также получены согласования Федеральной службы по военно-техническому сотрудничеству, Минобороны и ряда других ведомств. Сейчас "Рособоронэкспорт" согласовывает контракт с Китаем по ценовым параметрам", - пояснил собеседник. "The terms of reference already agreed with foreign customers. We also obtain the agreement of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Ministry of Defense and several other departments. Now Rosoboronexport negotiates a contract with China on price parameters," - explained. Он напомнил, что с Китаем есть договоренность о поставке 500 моторов. He recalled that China has agreed to supply 500 engines. "Первые сто поставляются по фиксированной цене. По второй партии цена сейчас определяется", - уточнил он. "The first hundred are delivered at a fixed price. The second installment price is determined," - he said.

Двигатель РД-93 предназначен для китайско-пакистанского истребителя FC-1 и отличается от двигателя РД-33, устанавливаемого на МиГ-29, нижним расположением коробки двигательных агрегатов. RD-93 engines designed for the Sino-Pakistani FC-1 fighter and differs from the RD-33 engines installed on the MiG-29, bottom location of boxes of motor units. FC-1 (в Пакистан поставляется под индексом JF-17) - первый китайский многофункциональный истребитель, созданный для продажи на международные рынки. FC-1 (in Pakistan comes under the symbol JF-17) - the first Chinese multirole fighter designed for sale on international markets. Разработка самолета велась с начала 90-х годов китайской компанией Chengdu Aircraft Industry. Development of the aircraft started in early 90-ies by the Chinese Chengdu Aircraft Industry. Около 50% расходов на разработку ($75 млн) взял на себя Пакистан. About 50% of development costs ($ 75 million) took over Pakistan. У Китая с Пакистаном был заключен контракт на поставку 150 FC-1 на сумму $2,3 млрд с опционом еще на 100 машин. China has with Pakistan has been contracted to supply 150 FC-1 in the amount of $ 2.3 billion with an option for another 100 machines. А в марте 2009 года руководство компании Pakistan Aeronautical Complex и китайской Авиационной экспортно-импортной корпорации заключили контракт о начале серийного производства в Пакистане 42 легких многоцелевых реактивных истребителей JF-17, которые должны в ближайшие годы сформировать основу пакистанских ВВС. And in March 2009, the company's management and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Chinese aviation export-import corporation entered into a contract to begin production in Pakistan, 42 light multi-role fighter jet JF-17, which should be in the next few years form the foundation of the Pakistani Air Force. Всего Пакистан планирует самостоятельно произвести от 200 до 250 истребителей. Total Pakistan plans to independently produce from 200 to 250 fighters.

Самолет оснащен одним российским двигателем РД-93 разработки ОАО "Климов", серийно выпускаемым Московским машиностроительным предприятием имени Чернышева. The aircraft is equipped with one of Russia's RD-93 engines developing OAO Klimov, serially produced by the Moscow Machine Building Enterprise named after Chernyshev. В 2005 году "Рособоронэкспорт" заключил с КНР контракт на $238 млн на поставку для FC-1 первых 100 двигателей РД-93, этот контракт сейчас выполняет ММП Чернышева. In 2005, Rosoboronexport signed a contract with China to $ 238 million for the supply to the FC-1 the first 100 RD-93 engines, this contract is now in MMP Chernyshev. Первая партия из 15 моторов была отправлена из РФ еще в конце 2006 года. The first batch of 15 engines were sent from Russia in late 2006. При этом Пекин выражал готовность приобрести до 1000 моторов, если они будут модернизированы с увеличением тяги. At the same time Beijing has expressed willingness to purchase up to 1000 engines, if they will be upgraded to increase traction. В этом случае общая стоимость контракта составит $3,75 млрд. In this case, the total contract amount to $ 3,75 billion

Другой источник "АвиаПорта" уточнил, что переговоры о поставке Китаю двигателей РД-93 с увеличенной тягой с 8,3 тонн до 9 тонн шли с 2005 года. Another source AviaPort "said that negotiations for the supply to China RD-93 engines with increased thrust from 8.3 tons to 9 tons were from 2005. Однако по этому поводу выражала беспокойство Индия - один из основных традиционных покупателей российского оружия, чьим противником является Пакистан. However, on this occasion expressed concern over India - one of the main traditional buyers of Russia's arms, whose adversary is Pakistan. Индия указывала, что если у РД-93 увеличить тягу, он будет сопоставим с двигателем РД-33МК, устанавливаемым на "корабельные" истребители МиГ-29К/КУБ, которые Дели приобрел для оснащения авианосца "Адмирал Горшков". India pointed out that if the RD-93 to increase traction, it will be comparable with RD-33MK engine, installed in the "ship" fighter MiG-29K/KUB that Delhi has acquired to equip the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov.

Тем не менее, российская сторона разрешила в апреле 2007 года реэкспорт двигателей с тягой 8,3 тонны в Пакистан, причем, как утверждали в администрации президента РФ, сделку курировал лично тогдашний глава государства Владимир Путин. Nevertheless, Russia's party permit in April 2007 re-engine with a thrust 8.3 tons to Pakistan, and, as stated in the Presidential Administration, the deal personally oversaw the then President Vladimir Putin. На тот момент в администрации президента РФ утверждали, что сделка с Китаем не нарушает интересов Дели, так как Индия закупает в России более совершенные истребители. At that point in the presidential administration of Russia claimed that the deal with China does not violate the interests of Delhi, as India buys Russia more advanced fighters. Действительно, по боевой эффективности FC-1 значительно уступает "МиГам". Indeed, the combat efficiency of the FC-1 is considerably inferior "MiGam." Об этом говорит и представитель оборонно-промышленного комплекса, знакомый с ходом переговоров: "Китайский FC-1 ни в коей мере не является конкурентам нашим легким истребителям, он совершенно другого класса, в то же время позволяет моторостроительной отрасли иметь серьезный заказ". This is evidenced by the representative of the military-industrial complex, familiar with the negotiations: "The Chinese FC-1 is in no way is not our competitors, light fighter, it is quite another class, at the same time allows the Motor Industry have a serious reservation."

В "Рособоронэкспорте" "АвиаПорту" сообщили, что "предпочитают воздержаться от комментариев" по поводу реэкспорта РД-93 в Пакистан. In the "Rosoboronexport" AviaPort "reported that" prefer not to comment "about the re-RD-93 to Pakistan. При этом в ноябре 2007 года Федеральная служба по военно-техническому сотрудничеству (ФСВТС) разрешила Китаю реэкспорт российских двигателей РД-93 в шесть стран: помимо Пакистана, который получил это разрешение ранее, двигатель может быть поставлен в Египет, Нигерию, Бангладеш, Саудовскую Аравию и Алжир. At the same time in November 2007, the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) has allowed China to Russia's re-RD-93 engines in six countries: in addition to Pakistan, which has received permission earlier, the engine can be raised in Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria. Кроме того, намерение приобрести эти истребители также высказывали Ливан, Мьянма, Иран и Шри-Ланка. In addition, the intention to acquire these aircraft is also expressed in Lebanon, Myanmar, Iran and Sri Lanka.
 
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Two points I have noted with interest and will look for further validation:
  1. That Russia got around India's objections by selling lower thrust RD-93. I have read this elsewhere.
  2. That the cost is about $15.33m per aircraft.
 
thrust vectoring helps two ways for a fighter air crafts
1- to avoid incoming missel.
2- in dog fight to get upper hand before the fire of missel on enemy aircraft.
In first case it doesn't help a lot because missel are very manuverable but in 2nd case it has some advantage, although a little advantage also can be acheived by helmet mounted display with Aim-9X and IRIS-T to lock enemy fighter in dog fight.
 
Two points I have noted with interest and will look for further validation:
  1. That Russia got around India's objections by selling lower thrust RD-93. I have read this elsewhere.


  1. I was looking for the answers from long time but it is still not clear if the whole first lot of 100 were with lower thrust or only first 15!
    but still it is a good news for all parties incl. Russia.
    This also underline the respect and satisfaction of PAF for RD93. it become more significant when InAF prefered to buy American engine for their LCA and MRCA.
    this news also indicates that WS-13 is not ready yet and we may see more out thunder, sooner than later.
 
InAF went for a third party because of low quality of Russian engines while comparing with Western engines.
 
Good News...........

23/09/2009 / Comments: 0 / Views: 85 /

At the RD-93 engines with increased thrust

Rosoboronexport is preparing to sign a contract with China for 100 Russia RD-93 engines with increased thrust, told "AviaPort" a source in the military-industrial complex. "The terms of reference already agreed with foreign customers. We also obtain the agreement of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, Ministry of Defense and several other departments. Now Rosoboronexport negotiates a contract with China on price parameters," - explained. He recalled that China has agreed to supply 500 engines. "The first hundred are delivered at a fixed price. The second installment price is determined," - he said.

RD-93 engines designed for the Sino-Pakistani FC-1 fighter and differs from the RD-33 engines installed on the MiG-29, bottom location of boxes of motor units. FC-1 (in Pakistan comes under the symbol JF-17) - the first Chinese multirole fighter designed for sale on international markets. Development of the aircraft started in early 90-ies by the Chinese Chengdu Aircraft Industry. About 50% of development costs ($ 75 million) took over Pakistan. China has with Pakistan has been contracted to supply 150 FC-1 in the amount of $ 2.3 billion with an option for another 100 machines. And in March 2009, the company's management and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Chinese aviation export-import corporation entered into a contract to begin production in Pakistan, 42 light multi-role fighter jet JF-17, which should be in the next few years form the foundation of the Pakistani Air Force. Total Pakistan plans to independently produce from 200 to 250 fighters.

The aircraft is equipped with one of Russia's RD-93 engines developing OAO Klimov, serially produced by the Moscow Machine Building Enterprise named after Chernyshev. In 2005, Rosoboronexport signed a contract with China to $ 238 million for the supply to the FC-1 the first 100 RD-93 engines, this contract is now in MMP Chernyshev. The first batch of 15 engines were sent from Russia in late 2006. At the same time Beijing has expressed willingness to purchase up to 1000 engines, if they will be upgraded to increase traction. In this case, the total contract amount to $ 3,75 billion

Another source AviaPort "said that negotiations for the supply to China RD-93 engines with increased thrust from 8.3 tons to 9 tons were from 2005. However, on this occasion expressed concern over India - one of the main traditional buyers of Russia's arms, whose adversary is Pakistan. India pointed out that if the RD-93 to increase traction, it will be comparable with RD-33MK engine, installed in the "ship" fighter MiG-29K/KUB that Delhi has acquired to equip the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov.

Nevertheless, Russia's party permit in April 2007 re-engine with a thrust 8.3 tons to Pakistan, and, as stated in the Presidential Administration, the deal personally oversaw the then President Vladimir Putin. At that point in the presidential administration of Russia claimed that the deal with China does not violate the interests of Delhi, as India buys Russia more advanced fighters. Indeed, the combat efficiency of the FC-1 is considerably inferior "MiGam." This is evidenced by the representative of the military-industrial complex, familiar with the negotiations: "The Chinese FC-1 is in no way is not our competitors, light fighter, it is quite another class, at the same time allows the Motor Industry have a serious reservation."

In the "Rosoboronexport" AviaPort "reported that" prefer not to comment "about the re-RD-93 to Pakistan. At the same time in November 2007, the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) has allowed China to Russia's re-RD-93 engines in six countries: in addition to Pakistan, which has received permission earlier, the engine can be raised in Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria. In addition, the intention to acquire these aircraft is also expressed in Lebanon, Myanmar, Iran and Sri Lanka.
 
So it is still at 8300 K which means 18,300 Lbs with AB... But that poster of PAF says it is more than 19,000 Lbs with AB. So what is going on??
 
perhaps that was for the new version and for the time being PAF is sticking to the same engines specs,,,
it wont do any good to project, the engine should be change with a powerfull one if we really are serious to take JF17 to a next level and make it the backbone of PAF!

regards!
 
perhaps that was for the new version and for the time being PAF is sticking to the same engines specs,,,
it wont do any good to project, the engine should be change with a powerfull one if we really are serious to take JF17 to a next level and make it the backbone of PAF!

regards!

But don't forget it will take not much time to upgrade the current version of engines to new one.
 
The only time when we need to change the engine should be a domestic Chinese one, till then lets hold on to the original RD-93. Waisa be the new engine does not offer any major upgraditions over its predecessor.
 
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