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Raytheon closes on $284 M deal with Pakistan

Let me explain it more clearly...

For Pakistan there is a certain limit to what they can get. When Europe got AIM9-L 8/9 Pakistan only got AIM9-L1/2. Now they released newer version (which I know is not the best or latest AIM9-L but even most trusted NATO nations do not have more then that). In Europe the 8/9 is in service for a long time. The German got East Germany and got those Mig29 with Archers. They did lots of dact against all western planes (including red flag in USA) and they did see that Archer did outperform the 8/9, hence the development of a total new concept of the aim9... The X version. It does not mean that there are no other versions besides AIM9L or X... There a lots of versions in between and one can find the family tree on the net.

Let me remind that AIM9P4/5 was a degraded version for less trusted allies... And we know that Pakistan got these...

What I wanted to say that even getting AIM9L-8/9 will not make much difference against India which has Archers... So there was no shocking news when US released 8/9 and allowed to upgrade the previous versions (1/2) to 8/9...

Here some links...
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/aim9.html

Or...
Variants

The development process has produced increased capabilities with each missile modification.

The AIM-9A, prototype of the Sidewinder, was first fired successfully in September 1953. The initial production version, designated AIM-9B, entered the Air Force inventory in 1956 and was effective only at close range. It could not engage targets close to the ground, nor did it have nighttime or head-on attack capability. These shortcomings were eliminated on subsequent versions.

The AIM-9G provided the capability to lock on and launch against a target offset from the axis of the launch aircraft.

The AIM-9H configuration replace vacuum tubes with solid-state modules and a thermal battery replaced the turbo-alternator. The AIM-9H was configured with a continuous-rod bundle warhead.

The AIM-9J, a conversion of the AIM-B and E models, has maneuvering capability for dogfighting, and greater speed and range, giving it greater enhanced aerial combat capability. Deliveries began in 1977 to equip the F-15 and other Sidewinder-compatible aircraft.

The AIM-9L added a more powerful solid-propellant rocket motor as well as tracking maneuvering ability. Improvements in heat sensor and control systems have provided the AIM-9L missile with an all-aspect attack capability and improved guidance characteristics. The L model was the first Sidewinder with the ability to attack from all angles, including head-on. An improved active optical fuze increased the missile's lethality and resistance to electronic countermeasures. A conical scan seeker increased seeker sensitivity and improved tracking stability. The AIM-9L is configured with an annular blast fragmentation warhead. Production and delivery of the AIM-9L began in 1976.

The AIM-9M missile utilizes a guidance control section with counter-countermeasures and improved maintainability and producibility. The AIM-9M is configured with an annular blast fragmentation warhead.

The AIM-9P, an improved version of the J model, has greater engagement boundaries, enabling it to be launched farther from the target. The more maneuverable P model also incorporated improved solid-state electronics that increased reliability and maintainability. Deliveries began in 1978.

The AIM-9P-1 has an active optical target detector instead of the infrared influence fuze; the AIM-9P-2 added a reduced-smoke motor. The most recently developed version, the AIM-9P-3, combined both the active optical target detector and the reduced-smoke motor. It also has added mechanical strengthening to the warhead as well as the guidance and control section. The improved warhead uses new explosive material that is less sensitive to high temperature and has a longer shelf life.

The AIM-9M, currently the only operational variant, has the all-aspect capability of the L model, but provides all-around higher performance. The M model has improved defense against infrared countermeasures, enhanced background discrimination capability, and a reduced-smoke rocket motor. These modifications increase ability to locate and lock-on a target and decrease the missile's chances for detection. Deliveries of the M model began in 1983.

The AIM-9M-9 has expanded infrared counter measures detection circuitry.

The AIM-9X Sidewinder Air-to-Air missile program will develop a short range heat seeking weapon to be employed in both offensive and defensive counter-air operations. Offensively, the weapon will assure that US and combined air forces have the ability project the necessary power to insure dominant maneuver. In the defensive counter-air role, the missile system will provide a key capability for force protection. The multi-service Air Intercept Missile (AIM-9X Sidewinder) development will field a high off-boresight capable short range heat seeking missile to be employed on US Air Force and Navy/Marine Corps fighters. The missile will be used both for offensive and defensive counter-air operations as a short range, launch and leave air combat missile that uses infra red guidance. The AIM-9X will complement longer range radar guided missiles such as the Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM).

The new missile is required to reestablish the parity of US aircraft in short range air combat, vis-à-vis improved foreign export aircraft and missiles. Specific deficiencies exist in the current AIM-9M in high off-boresight angle capability, infra-red counter-countermeasures robustness, kinematic performance, and missile maneuverability. The MiG-29 with its AA-10/AA-11 missiles are the major threat to US forces. Additionally, there are a number of other missiles on the world market that outperform the current US inventory AIM-9M weapon system in the critical operational employment areas.
 
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Let me remind that AIM9P4/5 was a degraded version for less trusted allies... And we know that Pakistan got these...

What I wanted to say that even getting AIM9L-8/9 will not make much difference against India which has Archers... So there was no shocking news when US released 8/9 and allowed to upgrade the previous versions (1/2) to 8/9...

we already know pakistan has AIM-9P and AIM- 9L but this is where i'm getting confused, you're talking about pakistan in connection with the AIM- 9L being upgraded to 8/9 standard, i haven't heard about this before. maybe the AIM- 9L 8/9 isn't as good as the archer but what about the AIM-9M 8/9 which may well be a decent competitor against the archer.

i think pakistan might also have the AIM- 9M, this is becuase according to this article:

pakistan to upgrade AIM- 9M missiles to AIM-9M 8/9 standard

it says pakistan is upgrading 310 of its AIM-9M to AIM-9M 8/9 standard. in addition it has also placed an order for 200 AIM-9M 8/9 missiles:

DSCA release
 
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You are comparing Archer with HMS and TVC with basic AIM9 design... So the Archer is still better then M. But It does probably not do well against Iris-T/AIM9X/ASRAAM versions... Most new versions are used in combination with HMS and TVC so they are very potent. And most version now have better seaker then the Archer had...
 
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so the archer is better in terms of TVC, but what about ECCM's of the 2 missiles (archer and AIM-9M 8/9) becuase they can also play a vital role.

in terms of HMS, pakistan has ordered initially 36 JHMCS for the F-16 C/D, this would suggest that the AIM-9M 8/9's can also be fired using a helmet mounted cueing system, i doubt pakistan would buy the cueing systems if they didn't.

DSCA

JHMCS
 
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AIM9M is maybe able to be linked but HMS means that you can look at your back and fire the missile... What good does that if your missile can only go forward? Besides HMCS is not working in combo with AIM9M...

I suggest that if you have info that AIM9M works with HMCS and it it is optimized for eachother then I would stop posting here...
 
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Munir,

Respectfully, I think you are confusing the topic on hand. AIM-9L (All-Aspect) had been in use with the NATO airforces since mid-late 80s. Pakistan acquired it in the 90s as a result of Brownback amendment.

You are confusing AIM-9M-8/9 with AIM-9L.

The only 8/9 production is that of AIM-9M and not AIM-9L. The essential missile is the same however AIM-9M and then sub-type AIM-9M-8/9 provide better IRCMs against decoys etc. and modified motor etc.

I stand by what I said earlier, there is no AIM-9L-8/9. The latest iteration of the AIM-9 missiles (barring AIM-9x) is AIM-9M-8/9 which is what Pakistan is inducting.

The AIM-9M are not cueable to the JHMCS. You would need a HOBS AAM like AIM-9x for this capability to be properly exploited. However, despite that, the all-aspect capability of AIM-9L and AIM-9M make them very potent missiles in WVR combat. The head-on capability of these two AAMs is pretty amazing (you do not need HMS etc. to exploit this capability).

Archer is definetly something different as it allows limited High off-boresight capability, but the western HOBS AAMs are even better no ifs and buts. Seeker design, E/IRCMs etc., are usually always better on the western AAM than their Russian counterparts.
 
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so the archer is better in terms of TVC, but what about ECCM's of the 2 missiles (archer and AIM-9M 8/9) becuase they can also play a vital role.

in terms of HMS, pakistan has ordered initially 36 JHMCS for the F-16 C/D, this would suggest that the AIM-9M 8/9's can also be fired using a helmet mounted cueing system, i doubt pakistan would buy the cueing systems if they didn't.

DSCA

JHMCS

Pakistan has ordered 96 JHMCS that will go on all of Pakistani F-16s. Pakistan will be acquiring AIM-9x in the future and in order for PAF to be able to cater to it in the future, and other reasons (see below), JHMCS has been ordered.

The AIM-9Ms can be fired the way AIM-9Ps, AIM-9Ls would be and do not make the acquisition of JHMCS useless since we do not have AIM-9x yet. The JHMCS also provides PAF the ability to cue PGMs (JDAMS, JSOWs, LGBs etc.) for launch to their targets. High Off-boresight (HOBS) AAM launch is not the only purpose behind JHMCS. Its probably the best cueing system out there that does not limit its operator to just the launching of AAMs.
 
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Pakistan has ordered 96 JHMCS that will go on all of Pakistani F-16s. Pakistan will be acquiring AIM-9x in the future and in order for PAF to be able to cater to it in the future, and other reasons (see below), JHMCS has been ordered.

The AIM-9Ms can be fired the way AIM-9Ps, AIM-9Ls would be and do not make the acquisition of JHMCS useless since we do not have AIM-9x yet. The JHMCS also provides PAF the ability to cue PGMs (JDAMS, JSOWs, LGBs etc.) for launch to their targets. High Off-boresight (HOBS) AAM launch is not the only purpose behind JHMCS. Its probably the best cueing system out there that does not limit its operator to just the launching of AAMs.

96 JHMCS, these F-16's are going to be excellent for PAF, so pakistan would use these to launch A2G munitions at the moment, and will be ready for the AIM-9X, but will pakistan be offered the AIM-9X?
 
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Munir,

Respectfully, I think you are confusing the topic on hand. AIM-9L (All-Aspect) had been in use with the NATO airforces since mid-late 80s. Pakistan acquired it in the 90s as a result of Brownback amendment.

You are confusing AIM-9M-8/9 with AIM-9L.

The only 8/9 production is that of AIM-9M and not AIM-9L. The essential missile is the same however AIM-9M and then sub-type AIM-9M-8/9 provide better IRCMs against decoys etc. and modified motor etc.

I stand by what I said earlier, there is no AIM-9L-8/9. The latest iteration of the AIM-9 missiles (barring AIM-9x) is AIM-9M-8/9 which is what Pakistan is inducting.

The AIM-9M are not cueable to the JHMCS. You would need a HOBS AAM like AIM-9x for this capability to be properly exploited. However, despite that, the all-aspect capability of AIM-9L and AIM-9M make them very potent missiles in WVR combat. The head-on capability of these two AAMs is pretty amazing (you do not need HMS etc. to exploit this capability).

Archer is definetly something different as it allows limited High off-boresight capability, but the western HOBS AAMs are even better no ifs and buts. Seeker design, E/IRCMs etc., are usually always better on the western AAM than their Russian counterparts.

Totally agree... :tup:
 
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96 JHMCS, these F-16's are going to be excellent for PAF, so pakistan would use these to launch A2G munitions at the moment, and will be ready for the AIM-9X, but will pakistan be offered the AIM-9X?

Indeed ready to be used with either AIM9X or IRIS-T... And the advantage of these helmets is that the pilot can look around and still get all the info. He just misses the fire option... :coffee:
 
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96 JHMCS, these F-16's are going to be excellent for PAF, so pakistan would use these to launch A2G munitions at the moment, and will be ready for the AIM-9X, but will pakistan be offered the AIM-9X?

Adding to Munir's point, my own thought on the AIM-9x is simply that its still being inducted in the USAF, USN etc. for integration with US fleet. After that come the tier one US partners (NATO etc.)...when the Missile has been made available to US/NATO partners, then the US would be willing to sell it to others like Pakistan. AIM-9x is a tactical solution and unlike AIM-120C, would not face as many challenges in getting through to Pakistan.

On a more realistic/technical side, keep in mind is that JHCMS capability would not be fully available to PAF for another year or two as the MLU upgrades are just starting off and blk-52s are not going to start shipping until 2008 or so. So PAF still has 2 years or so before platforms capable of using AIM-9x would be available. Until then, AIM-9M-8/9 would be the primary AAMs in use by the PAF, thus there was no urgency in acquiring the AIM-9x iand no orders placed.

The other thing is that PAF may also be contemplating using IRIS-T as the standard HOBS AAM. Danish AirForce has already integrated IRIS-T with their F-16s (MLU Tape M4) and PAF may want to use IRIS-T with not only the F-16s but also other types like JF-17s etc. I admit that the IRIS-T is a guess on my part, however IRIS-T was discussed quite a bit during the IDEAS2006.
 
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In 1995, Germany announced the IRIS-T development program, in collaboration with Greece, Italy, Norway, Sweden and Canada. Canada later dropped out.

Workshare arrangements for IRIS-T development are:

* Germany 46%
* Italy 19%
* Sweden 18%
* Greece 13%
* 4% split between Canada and Norway.


Not Denmark... Norway integrated IRIS-T on their F16's.
 
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In 1995, Germany announced the IRIS-T development program, in collaboration with Greece, Italy, Norway, Sweden and Canada. Canada later dropped out.

Workshare arrangements for IRIS-T development are:

* Germany 46%
* Italy 19%
* Sweden 18%
* Greece 13%
* 4% split between Canada and Norway.


Not Denmark... Norway integrated IRIS-T on their F16's.

Yes you are correct. RNoAF was the candidate for it. Interestingly enough the point you make about Canada dropping out of the IRIS-T contention is exactly what makes sense for PAF to consider it. The Canadians dropped out since they were asked to foot the bill for integration of IRIS-T on the Hornet....in the case of PAF, F-16s at least are already compatible with IRIS-T (thanks to RNoAF) and with regards to R&D, PAF would not have to foot the bill for the integration.
 
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http://www.indusbusinessjournal.com...91&tier=4&id=2A74090D5275405EA1AB5173F3F95813
Pakistan, Raytheon sign $284m missile deal

BY CHRIS NELSON

TUCSON, Ariz. — The Pakistani government has signed a $284 million contract to purchase 700 air-to-air missiles from Raytheon Missile Systems, a division of Raytheon Co. and the world's largest missile manufacturer.

According to the agreement, Tucson, Ariz.-based Raytheon Missile Systems will deliver 500 advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles to the South Asian nation between 2008 and 2011. It marks the largest single international order ever placed for the weapon, and the first such purchase by Pakistan.

The order also includes 200 AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles. The infrared-guided, short-range air-to-air missiles are used by more than 20 countries around the world, according to Raytheon.

Pakistan, a U.S. ally in the war on terrorism, has used closer ties to upgrade its military with the latest equipment. Last summer, the Pentagon revealed plans to sell $5 billion worth of weapons to Pakistan, including Raytheon's air-to-air missiles, as well as 36 new F-16 fighter jets manufactured by Bethesda, Md.-based Lockheed Martin Corp.

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has cooperated with the United States as it fights al-Qaeda along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. In June 2005 — shortly before the Pentagon revealed the planned weapons sale to Pakistan — Musharraf pledged to deploy about 10,000 more troops on the border to deter infiltrations.

"This is the largest single purchase of the [advanced medium-range air-to-air] missiles in the history of the international program," Brock McCaman, vice president of Raytheon Missile Systems' air-to-air product line, said. "The combat-proven one-two punch of Raytheon's [missile] technology will give the Pakistan Air Force the necessary firepower to accomplish vital air defense missions."

Raytheon Missile Systems designs, develops, and produces missile systems for a number of uses, including air-to-air, strike, surface Navy air defense, land combat missiles, guided projectiles and directed energy weapons. The division employs 11,000 workers at facilities in Arizona, Kentucky, New Mexico, Arkansas and California. It generated revenues of $4.1 billion last year.

The division markets its advanced medium-range air-to-air missile as the "AMRAAM." The weapon is a joint U.S. Air Force and Navy program that allows pilots to target enemy aircraft beyond their visual range day or night, and in all weather. To date, more than 32 nations use the missile, according to Jack Roosa, business developer for Raytheon Missile Systems.

"The AMRAAM has been in the U.S. arsenal for over 20 years, and yet, it remains a very advanced missile," he said. "It is combat proven — it possesses all of the capabilities that are required in today's air-to-air combat environment."

According to the Raytheon Web site, the company's advanced medium-range missile has scored combat victories in the skies of Iraq, Bosnia and Kosovo. It is operational on the U.S. military's F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 fighter jets; the German F4F, the United Kingdom's Sea Harrier, the JAS-39 Gripen, the JA-37 Viggen; and Norway's Advanced Surface-to-Air missile system.

Raytheon is currently integrating the weapon to several other fighter jets, including the U.S. military's F/A-22 and the Joint Strike Fighter; the Eurofighter, the Harrier II Plus and the Tornado.

The Waltham, Mass.-based company is one of the U.S. military's largest defense contractors. Raytheon employs more than 80,000 workers around the world, and earns annual revenues of approximately $22 billion. More than 90 percent of Raytheon's revenues are obtained from defense contracts, and as of 2005 it is the fifth largest military contractor worldwide.
 
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