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Raymond Davis Case: LHC rules murder trial valid, rejects immunity from prosecution

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I think he has been stated several times on this site that to a practicing Muslim suicide is not allowed. Somehow this prohibition of suicide is being overlooked daily as the terrorists use children, women, and others under threats to their larger family if they refuse to be suicide bombers...and suicide bombing are happening all too often.

In the midst of a war on terrorism, daily atrocities by the terrorists against the innocent people of all of Pakistan, with robbery a way of life for some in the poorer economic strata of Pakistan, this is an absurd topic and issue when the simple truth is Mr. Davis is the victum of a failed armed robbery attempt and fired back in self defense.

This whole topic is just short of mob justice mentality by some of the younger, overseas, not even born in Paksitan folks who all of a sudden "want a cause." Let that "cause" be to oppose openly and publicly, worldwide wherever these youth are living, studying and working, oppose radical Islamic terrorists, speak up!
 
Since you bring up religion...how about the Taliban murder of Shabaz Bhatti the late Pakistan Minister for Minority and Community Affairs, who was the sole Christian in the Government of Pakistan cabinet?

With the long term availability of weapons throughout all of Pakistan and the unenforceability of so called gun laws....coupled with the fact that the US Embassy has stated for the record that Mr. Davis was required to be armed as part of his job...why do you go into such blind alleys?

The Taliban run around murdering randomly...everyday pleasant, moderate Muslims...at random. The ISI protects now major city harbored Taliban against the notion that they will be needed in the "next" great conflict with India. And the US Embassy tries to deal with all these conflicted elements as Pakistan and NATO are allies in the war on terrorism, and Pakistan, who no one on this site thus far except me, Pakistan is a NATO Affiliate since the Presidency of General Musharraf. Etc, etc, etc.


Again conspiracies.....

We have aware from your point of thinking from 28th of December, but problem is this We are not agree with you .


Raymond Allen Davis remains a victum of a failed armed robbery attempt on his person. He defended himself.

:coffee: :what: :lazy:

Waiting for 14th of March, lets see what Pandora box will gonna open.:undecided:
 
This is just another indication that the present US policies will likely continue with Pakistan's assistance regardless of the RD case:

from: US missile strike kills five militants in South Waziristan | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

PESHAWAR: A US missile strike targeting a compound killed five militants in a Pakistani tribal region near the Afghan border on Tuesday, security officials said, updating an earlier toll of four.

The strike took place in Landidog village, 20 kilometres (12 miles) west of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan tribal region.

“A US drone fired two missiles targeting a compound, killing five militants,” a senior Pakistani security official told AFP.

He said that militants were using the compound owned by a local tribesman named as Fazal Karam.
 
If you don't agree with me then by all means go over and join the Taliban/al Qaida side so we can see who is friend and who is foe of the nation of Pakistan. Many thanks.
 
If you don't agree with me then by all means go over and join the Taliban/al Qaida side so we can see who is friend and who is foe of the nation of Pakistan. Many thanks.

So now who ever will disagree with you is a terrorist. Well how typical........................

Then again we should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity. ;)
 
I of course read all you post and hoped you would do likewise read all I wrote. I ask those loyal to the nation of Pakistan, where I served 1963-65, to stand up to the terrorists every day, as they are after you and yours inside Pakistan, every day. This entire struggle starts and ends with folks to my outsiders point of view are heretics to what my Muslim friends there and here tell me is the truth of Islam, Peace.

I would be upset if everyone on every topic ever agreed with me. But on the topic of standing up to terrorism I would have hoped most of us would agree that we need worldwide and especially inside Pakistan to be rid of the terrorists forever.

It was reassuring to note in the Paksitan media of late that the lawyers nationwide have demonstrated against the terrorists in the murder of Cabinet Minister Shabaz Bhatti.

Do you not condole the murder of Mr. Bhatti? He was a native born brave Pakistani who incidentially the Taliban say they singled out for murder because he was a Christian.
 
I of course read all you post and hoped you would do likewise read all I wrote. I ask those loyal to the nation of Pakistan, where I served 1963-65, to stand up to the terrorists every day, as they are after you and yours inside Pakistan, every day. This entire struggle starts and ends with folks to my outsiders point of view are heretics to what my Muslim friends there and here tell me is the truth of Islam, Peace.

I would be upset if everyone on every topic ever agreed with me. But on the topic of standing up to terrorism I would have hoped most of us would agree that we need worldwide and especially inside Pakistan to be rid of the terrorists forever.

It was reassuring to note in the Paksitan media of late that the lawyers nationwide have demonstrated against the terrorists in the murder of Cabinet Minister Shabaz Bhatti.

Do you not condole the murder of Mr. Bhatti? He was a native born brave Pakistani who incidentially the Taliban say they singled out for murder because he was a Christian.

I have read many of your posts, and seen you ranting many a times. You served in Pakistan for a time, so what!.

You have constantly gone offtopic with things, and ranted. Yes rants, trolls, off topic bs. And that is what you are doing now, RD's case was clear from day one we are all saying the same thing except a few that let the courts decide. It is you as an american who dont respect any thing other then the laws of your own, and care for no one except for your own. Even if that yours had killed one or many. And still you come back with another gem dragging Bhatti into the discussion trying to troll when you have nothing else to present. Stop scoring point off of others deaths. And stop citing them when they are not needed to be dragged into something.
 
I of course read all you post and hoped you would do likewise read all I wrote. I ask those loyal to the nation of Pakistan, where I served 1963-65, to stand up to the terrorists every day, as they are after you and yours inside Pakistan, every day. This entire struggle starts and ends with folks to my outsiders point of view are heretics to what my Muslim friends there and here tell me is the truth of Islam, Peace.

I would be upset if everyone on every topic ever agreed with me. But on the topic of standing up to terrorism I would have hoped most of us would agree that we need worldwide and especially inside Pakistan to be rid of the terrorists forever.

It was reassuring to note in the Paksitan media of late that the lawyers nationwide have demonstrated against the terrorists in the murder of Cabinet Minister Shabaz Bhatti.

Do you not condole the murder of Mr. Bhatti? He was a native born brave Pakistani who incidentially the Taliban say they singled out for murder because he was a Christian.

Lol what... Terrorists in 65, who were they the MQM? No offence but AE Terrorists are a phenomena that came into Pakistan post 911. So please get your facts right.
 
from: America and Pakistan: Stuck with you | The Economist

America and Pakistan
Stuck with you
A clash between spy agencies is boosting the ISI—but is doing Pakistan no favours

Mar 3rd 2011 | ISLAMABAD | from the print edition

CHALK up one point to Pakistan’s military-intelligence service, the ISI, and none to America’s. In a test of strength over the fate of an American agent, awaiting trial for murder, it is clear who is emerging the stronger. The agent is Raymond Davis, whom America now admits worked in some way for the CIA. He shot and killed two apparent robbers on a motorbike, in a busy street in Lahore in late January. An American driver, perhaps working for the CIA, then accidentally killed a third man while rushing to the scene. A little later the despairing wife of one of the victims committed suicide.

That miserable run of events has left ordinary Pakistanis furious. Mr Davis is such a figure of hate as he languishes in a Lahore jail that even his guards are kept unarmed for fear they might kill him. Anti-Americanism, always high, is soaring.

Had Pakistan wished, Mr Davis might have been quietly whisked away. The Americans, from Barack Obama down, say he has diplomatic immunity. That seems wrong—Mr Davis’s name was not put on a diplomatic list until after he had fired his shots. But Pakistani officials might once have gone along with the fiction. The civilian government probably wanted to do so. Asif Zardari, the president, had been hoping to go to Washington this month and craves a visit to Pakistan by Mr Obama. He needs American and IMF cash to prop up a failing economy.

Yet Mr Zardari was too weak to let Mr Davis go. Political rivals grabbed a tempting stick with which to bash his derided government. In Punjab an alliance between his party and the opposition has crumbled, a sign that parties may be preparing for an early national election.

More important, the ISI made sure that Mr Davis could not be released. It briefed journalists on American lies about his immunity, helping stir public anger. The press made lurid claims that the American had been trying to plant evidence that terrorists have nuclear-weapons material, as an excuse for outsiders somehow to seize Pakistan’s treasured nuclear arsenal.

For the ISI, the Davis incident is a godsend. It is furious with the way American agents work independently, tracking al-Qaeda, Taliban and other militants who have slipped into Lahore and Karachi to flee drone attacks on the mountainous border with Afghanistan. This may have been the work Mr Davis did—snooping around madrassas, trying to contact anyone connected to extremists.

The Americans say they act alone because the ISI fails to co-operate. For example, after the CIA found Abdul Ghani Baradar, an Afghan Taliban leader, in Karachi in February last year, the Pakistanis put him under house arrest but are said to have limited American access to him. More intriguing—though stoutly denied by the ISI—was a Washington Post claim that the ISI brought Mullah Omar, the leader of the Afghan Taliban, to Karachi on January 7th for an emergency heart operation.

As relations soured, Pakistani intelligence, which already feels humiliated by America’s widespread drone attacks against the Afghani Taliban on Pakistan territory, tried blocking the arrival of American agents by vetoing visa requests. The Americans (and Mr Zardari) responded, last year, by arranging for Pakistan’s embassy in Washington to hand out visas independently. Dozens of American contractors reportedly flocked into Pakistan.

Furious, the ISI targeted the CIA, leaking the name of the station chief to the Pakistani press in December and so forcing him out. American intelligence in turn briefed friendly journalists that the ISI was responsible for the leak. Most strikingly, the ISI is now rumoured to be behind efforts to arrest more Americans. Aaron DeHaven, with connections to the security industry, was detained in Peshawar in late February for overstaying his visa. Leon Panetta, the CIA head, calls the fraught ties with Pakistan “very complicated”.

Bruce Riedel, author of a new book on America and Pakistan, concludes that “the stakes are enormous and they are all going to hinge on the fate of one man”, Mr Davis. A few options for reconciliation are open, but none looks appealing to the Americans. Most obvious, as the ISI sees it, is for America to back down and let the ISI oversee the snooping on Islamic extremists, in effect ceding a veto on whom to target.

Strong differences exist, for example in North Waziristan over the militant Haqqani network, considered a friendly group by the Pakistanis but a terrorist threat by the Americans. Similarly, attitudes differ towards Lashkar-e-Taiba, reckoned by Pakistanis to be a useful tool for threatening India, but an international terrorist group by Americans, especially since an attack on Mumbai in November 2008.

Next the ISI wants the American government to discourage a private court case in New York against past and present chiefs of Pakistani intelligence. The suit, brought by American victims of the Mumbai attack, claims the ISI directly helped the terrorists, but perhaps America could say that Pakistani spy leaders enjoy sovereign immunity

Last, and perhaps least appealing of all to the Americans, Pakistan’s spies want more say on efforts to end the war in Afghanistan. Whether any of these, or other, concessions will be made for the sake of a difficult relationship is unclear. But an ISI officer this week happily suggested that “sanity is prevailing”.
 
VCheng's post here is very helpful. The article does a good job of chronological and logic organization.

HISTORY: The visible advent or start of Islamic terrorism began while I was serving in Paksitan in the mid-1960s. Native Pakistani employees of the US Consulate in Peshawar started to be put upon by mullah driven uneducated folks who in one case I recall beat a Pakistani driver there and broke many of his ribs. He was admonished to stop working for the Infidel Americans and other such radical religious propaganda.

Some of you who write on PDF are simply too young, were not born yet, to realize that the roots of extremism go deep and back in history. Modern communications have helped expose this ugly picture. What continues to amaze me is that some technically well educated folks who are outside of Pakistan proper, simply defy reality and logic and want to promote hatred and falsehoods, untruths. It seems a desire to blame others for today's ugly mess expresses itself by jumping on any momentary bandwagon which is anti-NATO, anti-US, anything that is in the eyes of extremist radicalized Islam is not "pro" their violent and bloody point of view.

Despite misunderstandings on the part of some who write on PDF I will continue to do what I can to tie history and current events together so that a more total picture against which to try to evaluate what is happening and where is it "going" can be focused by this old hand.

For those who don't bother to read articles I have shared on PDG from the SMITHSONIAN driven COLD WAR TIMES website, where I have written 4 out of up to 12 qtly articles all focused on Pakistan experiences. It is largely because of interpersonal goodwill that I have tried very hard since 911 to help keep a line of central tendency focus on historic to current time US-Pakistan relations.

To again waste your time I am a former International Banking Officer, Asia Section, in NYC. My "territory" included all of the Indian Subcontient, south to Australia and New Zealand, over to and including Korea and Japan. China was still emerging during my youthful banking years, but the former Dean of New York University Sterne Graduate Business School, my MBA program (I was in the night division, worked days full time as an international banker) Dr. James R. Dill, helped set up the first ever graduate business school or college (MBA)program in China. Dr. Dill and I personally corresponded in the 1980s while he was setting up the MBA program inside China. Dr. Dill is a good, smart fellow. While an international banker I was appointed by then Dean Dill to serve on a graduate school student advisory board to him and the Board of Trustees of NYU.

Many other publications, including in the WALL STREET JOURNAL and NEW YORK TIMES, written by me since the late 1960s to current times. These old articles grow whiskers as some of you were not yet born when these were written. But my 1978 WALL STREET JOURNAL article on SPECIAL DRAWING RIGHTS (SDRs) is still valid and useful to students of international finance and any single nation's credit and monetary policy.

My USAF career continued in the active, paid USAF Reserve where I wrote numerous papers dealing with cultural and religious changes afoot in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan...I did some time in Afghanistan, too, while based out of both Karachi and Peshawar. Some of these papers were not published due to "classification."

Point is I didn't just get off the boat since 911. The media in Pakistan and India have been kind to allow me space to express moderate and rational opinions, facts, and figures...since 911, however.

But, if you are driven by self opinions it does not matter what anyone shares factually with you, you will pursue your own blaming of the rest of the world for what is a long term degenerative splinter that has become a thorn in the side of moderate Islam, epitomized today by the Taliban and al Qaida and Saudi Arab driven Wahabism, but unhappily alive and well even in the 1960s. Religious intolerance in the 1960s not unlike some events today occasionally were epitomized by heads of decapitated Christian missionaries found in irrigation canals of in particular northern Pakistan. Sad but true.

These remarks are not off topic. A reader can be off topic if they don't want to learn and seek better ways and means to live in the modern world with the rest of mankind with a tolerant, open mind, whereby mutual, not one way, respect is readily earned and appreciated.
 
from: Davis case will not affect Pak-US relations: FO | World | DAWN.COM

ISLAMABAD: Foreign Office spokesperson Tehmina Janjua said on Thursday that the Raymond Davis case will not affect Pakistan’s relations with the US.

Janjua in her weekly briefing in Islamabad said that Davis’s case was in court so the Foreign Office will not comment on that.

“The foreign office is in contact with the Law and Interior ministry in this regard,” she added.

Answering to a question at the briefing she said that there will be high-level security talks taking place between Pakistan and India on March 18 and 29.

Foreign Office Additional Secretary Naeem Khan said that so far 3129 Pakistani’s had been brought back safely from Libya.

“There had been no report of Pakistani’s being targeted in Libya,” he added.
 
Lol what... Terrorists in 65, who were they the MQM? No offence but AE Terrorists are a phenomena that came into Pakistan post 911. So please get your facts right.
As multiple foreign observers witnessed, the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War started when Pakistan sent waves of "infiltrators" (~30,000 Pakistani soldiers in civilian garb) over the LOC to stir up an insurrection among the Kashmiris. That effort failed, but rather than back down Pakistan's leaders resorted to conventional war. Pakistan has continued to nurture "stateless" fighters ever since, usually appealing to Islam as a motivator rather than the proven unappealing (to Kashmiris) Pakistani nationalism.
 
The US conveniently Forgets Diplomatic Immunity for Afghan Ambassador in Islamabad

Considering the hue and cry being raised by the US on the Diplomatic Immunity and his illegal detention of Raymond Davis a few days back from Lahore when he killed two people in cold blood.

It seems the United States of America has a very short term selective memory in 2001 after 9/11 it arrested and picked up Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef from Islamabad who was then the Afghanistan Ambassador to Pakistan. He was detained in Pakistan initially in 2001 and then held until 2005 in the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp.

I am sure the serving Ambassador had full Diplomatic Immunity as accorded to his status under the Vienna Convention, whatsoever may his linkage be with the Talibans but he was beaten, tortured, handcuffed, and dragged naked in a US Helicopter before being airlifted to Guantanamo Bay, where were the laws that time, where was the diplomatic immunity and where was the Vienna Convention at that time. The US so staunchly claims for a consultant employed by the US Consulate in Lahore.

On his release Abdul Salam Zaeef wrote an autobiography titled My Life With The Taliban: An Excerpt, a few alamring sections I have copied below but you can read the entire hair raising ordeal on Cage Prisoners website

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When we arrived in Peshawar I was taken to a lavishly-fitted office. A Pakistani flag stood on the desk, and a picture of Mohammad Ali Jinnah hung at the back of the room, I was in the devil’s workshop, the regional head office of the ISI.

It was eleven o’clock at night and I was getting ready to go to bed when the door to my cell suddenly opened. A man entered; he was polite and we exchanged greetings. He said that I was being transferred, and that it would happen soon. Without asking for any further details, I got up and took my ablutions. Barely five minutes had passed when other men arrived with handcuffs and a piece of black cloth. They shackled my hands and the cloth was tied around my head covering my eyes, they kicked and pushed me into a car. None of them had said a word so far. We drove for almost an hour before they stopped the car. I could hear the sounds of the rotating blades of a helicopter nearby. I guessed that we were at an airport where I would be handed over to the Americans. Someone grabbed me and pulled an expensive watch that I was wearing from my wrist as the car drove closer to the helicopters. The car stopped again, but this time two people grabbed me on each side and took me out of the car. As they brought me towards the helicopter, one of the guards whispered into my ear. Khuda hafiz. Farewell. But the way he said it, it sounded like I was going on a fantastic journey.

Even before I reached the helicopter, I was suddenly attacked from all sides. People kicked me, shouted at me, and my clothes were cut with knives. They ripped the black cloth from my face and for the first time I could see where I was. Pakistani and American soldiers stood around me. Behind these soldiers, I could see military vehicles in the distance, one of which had a general’s number plate.

The Pakistani soldiers were all staring as the Americans hit me and tore the remaining clothes off from my body. Eventually I was completely naked, and the Pakistani soldiers—the defenders of the Holy Qur’an—shamelessly watched me with smiles on their faces, saluting this disgraceful action of the Americans. They held a handover ceremony with the Americans right in front of my eyes. That moment is written in my memory like a stain on my soul. Even if Pakistan was unable to stand up to the godless Americans I would at least have expected them to insist that treatment like this would never take place under their eyes or on their own sovereign territory. I was still naked when a callous American soldier gripped my arm and dragged me onto the helicopter. They tied my hands and feet, sealed my mouth with duct tape and put a black cloth over my head. That was in turn taped to my neck, and then I was shackled to the floor of the helicopter. All this time I could neither shout nor breathe. When I tried to catch my breath or move a little to one side, I was kicked hard by a soldier. On board the helicopter, I stopped fearing the kicking and beating; I was sure that my soul would soon leave my body behind. I assured myself that I would soon die from the beatings. My wish, however, wasn’t granted.

It sends chills down ones spine to note how ruthless the Americans were, total disrgard for humanity and no consideration for any Diplomatic immunity that Abdul Salam Zaeef may have under the Vienna Convention, he was an appointed Ambassador, how so ever viel his intentions might have been, he had more rights then Raymond Davis could ever have wanted that afternoon in Lahore.

The US conveniently Forgets Diplomatic Immunity for Afghan Ambassador in Islamabad | Teeth Maestro
 
every body knows, whether it be the un veto for israel or in pakistan's case raymond davis us is bull shitt
 
I am sure the serving Ambassador had full Diplomatic Immunity as accorded to his status under the Vienna Convention
Doubtful. Pakistan broke off diplomatic relations with the Taliban on November 21, 2001 link. The ex-Ambassador was thus declared persona non grata and had over a week to leave (Article 44 of the 1961 Convention) but did not for some reason did not do so, or else he left and immediately returned. Only after that period was he picked up by Pakistan's security services.
 
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