Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Aslan]

Why dont the indians mind their own bloody business. Now as they want to play devils advocate in every thing against Pakistan lets see can some one tell me what would you have done as an indian when a foreigner would have shoot 3 indians on the street. Or your bs rules are applicable to only Pakistan.

And Mr. AE seriously you need to stick to the topic and cut back on the trolling. And stop crying.

 

[JonAsad]

American Eagle reads international press on line. He also when watching TV news watches CNN, if you ever read all of his posts on this very long thread you would have known this.

It is amazing how many overnight "barristers" show up on this site and Thread who are safely in UK, Switzerland, Australia, Canada, the US, Russia, and other nations outside of Pakistan.

Mr. Davis correctly stated immediately that he has Diplomatic Immunity and he does. US Ambassador in Pakistan, and US Dept. of State in Washington endorse this legal fact.

Meanwhile more innocent Pakistanis have been murdered by terrorist suicide bombers inside Pakistan, some muredered, 35, with 180 wounded, there in Lahore, the day before the failed Lahore robbery attempt against Mr. Davis. Some, particularly in Peshawar, shortly after the failed hold up attempt on Mr. Davis.

There are some folks writing on this site who do come across as very anti-democratic, anti PPP, and anti Zardari. Zardari is the type leader who was duly elected in an open democratic process which is the type voter free democratic election process being sought now in Tunisia, and which has existed for about 10 years now in Egypt.

I assume most of you here know the results of the most recent the last Pakistani democratic election of President Zardari. Right? Zardari and his PPP faced several opponentes and won. How about that for a start up of real democracy?

Focus more on posting ON TOPIC SIR
The management expects much from you.
How about talk on rear windscreen that never broke

 

[Shameel]

And as long as the receiving state doesn't convey its disapproval, the claimant cannot be arrested.

Of course, if you don't want to honor an international obligation then that's a different matter.

You're assuming he's a diplomat. Pakistan's position is that he's not since:

(i) He did not arrive on a diplomatic visa, but an official business visa, which is different.

(ii) He was never declared a diplomat by the U.S. Embassy.

(iii) He's not an officer of the U.S. Embassy, but a staff member of the U.S. Consulate.

(iv) He was never issued with a diplomatic identity card.

Also, you or me are not going to decide this issue. A court in Lahore, Pakistan will.

 

[Patriot]

Indians determinately deserve more Bophal Disasters.Indians you might be laughing today but remember what goes around comes around.

 

[RescueRanger]

Translates to:

I don't know man.

Don't get ahead of yourself...

Article 41
Personal inviolability of consular officers
1.Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority

3. If criminal proceedings are instituted against a consular officer, he must appear before the competent authorities. Nevertheless, the proceedings shall be conducted with the respect due to him by reason of his official position and, except in the case specified in paragraph 1 of this article, in a manner which will hamper the exercise of consular functions as little as possible.

When, in the circumstances mentioned in paragraph 1 of this article, it has become necessary to detain a consular officer, the proceedings against him shall be instituted with the minimum of delay.

Article 42
Notification of arrest, detention or prosecution
In the event of the arrest or detention, pending trial, of a member of the consular staff, or of criminal proceedings being instituted against him, the receiving State shall promptly notify the head of the consular post. Should the latter be himself the object of any such measure, the receiving State shall notify the sending State through the diplomatic channel

Source: http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf

There you go, we have EVERY RIGHT under the convention to hold and try this guy...

 

[The HBS Guy]

Dear Sir,

I am far from being emotional in this case. Now, let's just say for your satisfaction that he has been detained. Now, will you please take a look at article 31 c of the convention.


http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf

Sire,

Article 31c comes into play in case of financial graft or theft or fraud etc.

It clearly says 'Professional or Commercial'.

Let me explain this in simpler terms:

A person enjoying or claiming diplomatic immunity if found indulged in financial offence, cannot be subjected to diplomatic immunity but a person killing someone can be subjected to diplomatic immunity.

In short,

If a diplomat cheat someone of money, he can be arrested but if that same diplomat kills someone, he cannot be arrested.

This might sound weird, but that's how it is.

 

[GUNNER]

Sire,

Article 31c comes into play in case of financial graft or theft or fraud etc.

Sir, you ve read 31 a. Anyways, Rescue Ranger has given a better explanation.

 

[Shameel]

Meanwhile someone tell my why Pakistan has been banned from the International Air Show in India? Baffled at this development?

Pakistan and India never invite each other to their defence shows.

 

[The HBS Guy]

--------------------------

 

[American Eagle]

Focus more on posting ON TOPIC SIR
The management expects much from you.
How about talk on rear windscreen that never broke

Thanks for showing your flag as in Saudi Arabaia, which nation I failed to name among the several from which outsiders are posting their personal opinions.

All thus hubub is over defiance of the fact of Diplomatic Immunity which Mr. Davis claimed, all he was required to do. Davis has been endorsed by the US Ambassador to Pakistan and the US Dept. of State in Washington as having Diplomatic Immunity.

This satisfies that issue. Everyone's opinions to the contrary do not dictate set in stone International Law and Treaties that underwrite Diplomatic Immunity.

Try another topic, perhaps let's ask questions of the police record of the two robbers who stuck up a Pakistani gentleman shortly before they failed to rob Mr. Davis, in the same vicinity there in Lahore, same day?

 

[The HBS Guy]

Don't get ahead of yourself...






Source: http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf

There you go, we have EVERY RIGHT under the convention to hold and try this guy...

Sir,

You are talking about a CONSULAR OFFICER, I'm talking about a DIPLOMAT, something that Mr. Davis claims to be.

Please try to understand the difference.

 

[Shameel]

Sir, according to Vienna Convention, even by the time the veracity of the claim of diplomatic immunity is not confirmed, the claimant cannot be arrested.

So, going by your logic, if I visit India and shoot dead two Indians and the polices come to arrest me, all I have to do is to simply "claim" that I'm a diplomat and the police can't arrest me. I tell them, according to HBS, until such time that the veracity of my claim of diplomatic immunity is not confirmed, I, the claimant cannot be arrested.

Think about what you're saying.

 

[JonAsad]

Thanks for showing your flag as in Saudi Arabaia, which nation I failed to name among the several from which outsiders are posting their personal opinions.

All thus hubub is over defiance of the fact of Diplomatic Immunity which Mr. Davis claimed, all he was required to do. Davis has been endorsed by the US Ambassador to Pakistan and the US Dept. of State in Washington as having Diplomatic Immunity.

This satisfies that issue. Everyone's opinions to the contrary do not dictate set in stone International Law and Treaties that underwrite Diplomatic Immunity.

Try another topic, perhaps let's ask questions of the police record of the two robbers who stuck up a Pakistani gentleman shortly before they failed to rob Mr. Davis, in the same vicinity there in Lahore, same day?

Oh yeah-- I was wondering-- why you didn't mention me- Big Deal-
I am here to talk about Mr Davis-- since this thread talks about him.

One question:
Did you see the scans of his passport? What are you expert on topic opinions on that?
He is American that i can see- Next

 

[American Eagle]

Pakistan and India never invite each other to their defence shows.

Thanks as in modern times I was ignorant of this fact. So when Pakistan hosts a future international air show they, too, can exclude India. Tit for tat.

Yet in the field of business, commerce, Pakistan under both Mussharraf and now Zardari is working a plan with India under which gas and oil pipelines will come through Aghanistan in one instance, through Iran in another instance, but in both instances the pipelines will operate across Pakistan into India. That is the kind of cooperation that is healthy for both nations, Pakistan and India, in my opinion.

 

[The HBS Guy]

So if I visit India and shoot to death two Indians and the polices come to arrest me, all I have to do is to simply "claim" that I'm a diplomat and the police can't arrest me. I tell them, according to HBS, until such time that the veracity of my claim of diplomatic immunity is not confirmed, I, the claimant cannot be arrested.

Think about what you're saying.

This is how it is meant to be:

1. You come to India.

2. You kill two Indians.

3. Police nabs you.

4. You claim diplomatic immunity.

5. Police checks your passport and visa.

6. Police contacts the Indian foreign office (which your Punjab police did not).

7. Police asks the Foreign Office to confirm your diplomatic immunity. (which your Punjab Police did not)

8. If Indian foreign Office says that you have diplomatic immunity, police let's you go. If Indian foreign Office says that you do not have diplomatic immunity, only then you are arrested.

Your police did not perform steps 6 through 8.

This is standard practice. I'm not making anything up here.