American Eagle
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Karachi DAWN, Wednesday, 2 Feb. 2011
Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story
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JonAsad
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Diplomatic visa does not automatically means he has diplomatic immunity, after getting diplomatic visa one has to submit his documents in the foreign office requesting for the immunity, in this particular case to Ministry of Foreign Affairs- Pakistan.
The billion dollar question stills the same, does he have Diplomatic Immunity? and of which level.
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VCheng
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The second chess piece moves. The prosecutor who had made a public statement to the contrary has already been removed from the case and has since resigned. The provincial government will have to go by the diplomatic status conveyed to it by the Federal government.
It will soon be all sorted out.
Elmo
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Cafe Pyala
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2011
A Brief History of Diplomatic Immunity
Since we Pakistanis often suffer simultaneously from the twin demons of megalomania and paranoia - verily we are better than everyone else and that is why everyone is out to get us - we often also look at history through a rather selective and distorted lens. Unfortunately, none typify this mindset more than the doyens and doyennes of the Pakistani electronic media, in whom a curious mix of hyper-patriotism, half-baked information, sincere ignorance and arrogant bluster seems generally to hold sway.
Take the issue of the day on Pakistani media: whether the American known by his apparent pseudonym "Raymond Davis" - who shot dead two men in Lahore - can be tried by Pakistani courts or whether the US government has any right to claim diplomatic immunity for him. I am not going to offer my own opinion on this because, for better or worse, this is an issue for the US and Pakistani states to sort out. (I should, however, point out that, personally speaking, I do not think armed Americans or armed anyone should be roaming around the streets of Pakistan.)
But having seen numerous commentaries on television where emotive claims have been made about how Americans have not respected diplomatic immunity in their own cases, how immunity does not extend to serious crimes or how Pakistani diplomats have never been extended this kind of privilege, I just want to direct readers to a few examples.
Here's The Independent reporting in 1997 about a case in which a drunk Georgian diplomat killed a 16-year-old girl in New York with his reckless driving and the US requested a waiver from immunity for him. (The paper reports that Georgia was unlikely to approve the request though it actually was at the discretion of the Georgian government and the diplomat was sentenced for 7-21 years. He was transferred back to Georgia after serving three years [link courtesy @qabacha].) The piece also cites other incidences of less egregious crimes by diplomats that go unpunished. Appropriately for us, the story is titled "Can A Diplomat Get Away With Murder?"
You may also recall the shooting dead of British constable Yvonne Fletcher apparently by Libyan embassy staff in London in 1984 as well as the wounding of 11 others. Diplomatic immunity allowed the staff not to be prosecuted at all, though Britain subsequently broke off diplomatic relations with Libya. Fifteen years later, Libya accepted "general responsibility" and paid compensation, though some experts continued to question whether the police officer's death was actually caused by someone shooting from within the embassy.
Coming to Pakistani diplomats invoking diplomatic immunity, let us recall the case of our Ambassador to Spain, Mr. Haroon-ur-Rashid Abbasi, who Pakistan withdrew from his post in 1975 without allowing prosecution when heroin was discovered in his suitcase.
Let us also recall the case of our longtime permanent rep at the UN, Ambassador Munir Akram in 2003 who was accused of assault by his then girlfriend. The US also asked Pakistan to waive immunity in that case, which Pakistan did not oblige. (The case was eventually settled when Mr Akram persuaded his girlfriend to withdraw the charges against him).
So, as they say, au contraire, my friends.
Some final points, and please remember that we are only taking issue with the 'facts' of the case as presented in the media. Television analysts have almost unanimously claimed that "Davis" did not have a 'diplomatic visa'. It might behoove someone to ask our media pundits if they have ever actually seen a Pakistani diplomatic visa. From our own investigations, it seems Pakistani visas have no such specified category of 'Diplomatic Visa' (unlike some other countries). In fact, according our sources, all foreign diplomats receive Pakistani visas with the marking "Purpose of Visit:" "Official" or "Official Business" (not Official / Business, another category that does not exist) on their diplomatic passports. If they carry such a visa on their diplomatic passport and the Foreign Office has been so notified, they receive diplomatic immunity during their stay in Pakistan.
Here are some scans of Davis' passport as presented on DawnNews' Reporter programme...
This is the marking on his passport, which clearly states that he is on "diplomatic assignment" (click picture to enlarge):
This is his current visa, issued incidentally not in Washington (as claimed by Shireen Mazari on Geo and Syed Talat Hussain on DawnNews) but in Islamabad:
In fact, "Davis" only once received a three-month visa in 2009 from Washington. His subsequent 4-month visa in 2010 and his current 2-year visa were both issued within Pakistan.
Kamran Khan on Geo also went to great lengths to 'break the news' that "Davis" is a spy who works for the CIA. He almost certainly is. But not only is that not amazing insight, we have to ask, so? Is his actual work the issue of contention here? As former ambassador Zafar Hilaly pointed out on Dunya, spooks get posted on "cover postings" abroad all the time, including by the Pakistan Foreign Office, and they all receive diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention. Let's at least be clear what we are arguing about.
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2011
A Brief History of Diplomatic Immunity
Since we Pakistanis often suffer simultaneously from the twin demons of megalomania and paranoia - verily we are better than everyone else and that is why everyone is out to get us - we often also look at history through a rather selective and distorted lens. Unfortunately, none typify this mindset more than the doyens and doyennes of the Pakistani electronic media, in whom a curious mix of hyper-patriotism, half-baked information, sincere ignorance and arrogant bluster seems generally to hold sway.
Take the issue of the day on Pakistani media: whether the American known by his apparent pseudonym "Raymond Davis" - who shot dead two men in Lahore - can be tried by Pakistani courts or whether the US government has any right to claim diplomatic immunity for him. I am not going to offer my own opinion on this because, for better or worse, this is an issue for the US and Pakistani states to sort out. (I should, however, point out that, personally speaking, I do not think armed Americans or armed anyone should be roaming around the streets of Pakistan.)
But having seen numerous commentaries on television where emotive claims have been made about how Americans have not respected diplomatic immunity in their own cases, how immunity does not extend to serious crimes or how Pakistani diplomats have never been extended this kind of privilege, I just want to direct readers to a few examples.
Here's The Independent reporting in 1997 about a case in which a drunk Georgian diplomat killed a 16-year-old girl in New York with his reckless driving and the US requested a waiver from immunity for him. (The paper reports that Georgia was unlikely to approve the request though it actually was at the discretion of the Georgian government and the diplomat was sentenced for 7-21 years. He was transferred back to Georgia after serving three years [link courtesy @qabacha].) The piece also cites other incidences of less egregious crimes by diplomats that go unpunished. Appropriately for us, the story is titled "Can A Diplomat Get Away With Murder?"
You may also recall the shooting dead of British constable Yvonne Fletcher apparently by Libyan embassy staff in London in 1984 as well as the wounding of 11 others. Diplomatic immunity allowed the staff not to be prosecuted at all, though Britain subsequently broke off diplomatic relations with Libya. Fifteen years later, Libya accepted "general responsibility" and paid compensation, though some experts continued to question whether the police officer's death was actually caused by someone shooting from within the embassy.
Coming to Pakistani diplomats invoking diplomatic immunity, let us recall the case of our Ambassador to Spain, Mr. Haroon-ur-Rashid Abbasi, who Pakistan withdrew from his post in 1975 without allowing prosecution when heroin was discovered in his suitcase.
Let us also recall the case of our longtime permanent rep at the UN, Ambassador Munir Akram in 2003 who was accused of assault by his then girlfriend. The US also asked Pakistan to waive immunity in that case, which Pakistan did not oblige. (The case was eventually settled when Mr Akram persuaded his girlfriend to withdraw the charges against him).
So, as they say, au contraire, my friends.
Some final points, and please remember that we are only taking issue with the 'facts' of the case as presented in the media. Television analysts have almost unanimously claimed that "Davis" did not have a 'diplomatic visa'. It might behoove someone to ask our media pundits if they have ever actually seen a Pakistani diplomatic visa. From our own investigations, it seems Pakistani visas have no such specified category of 'Diplomatic Visa' (unlike some other countries). In fact, according our sources, all foreign diplomats receive Pakistani visas with the marking "Purpose of Visit:" "Official" or "Official Business" (not Official / Business, another category that does not exist) on their diplomatic passports. If they carry such a visa on their diplomatic passport and the Foreign Office has been so notified, they receive diplomatic immunity during their stay in Pakistan.
Here are some scans of Davis' passport as presented on DawnNews' Reporter programme...
This is the marking on his passport, which clearly states that he is on "diplomatic assignment" (click picture to enlarge):
This is his current visa, issued incidentally not in Washington (as claimed by Shireen Mazari on Geo and Syed Talat Hussain on DawnNews) but in Islamabad:
In fact, "Davis" only once received a three-month visa in 2009 from Washington. His subsequent 4-month visa in 2010 and his current 2-year visa were both issued within Pakistan.
Kamran Khan on Geo also went to great lengths to 'break the news' that "Davis" is a spy who works for the CIA. He almost certainly is. But not only is that not amazing insight, we have to ask, so? Is his actual work the issue of contention here? As former ambassador Zafar Hilaly pointed out on Dunya, spooks get posted on "cover postings" abroad all the time, including by the Pakistan Foreign Office, and they all receive diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention. Let's at least be clear what we are arguing about.
khurasaan1
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Come on man I heard pplz saying that these two guyz were trained as terrorists in mujahideen( secretly run by CIA agents) camp in Afghanistan to do terrorism in Pakistan but these guyz ran away from the scene so the guy Raimond Davis was given the target to finish/kill
these guyz cuz they decieved the CIA before the secrecy gets leaked out.That is why these guyz were shot from the back...
I heard many guyz ran away from the mujahideen(in fact CIA) camps in Afghanistan cuz they come to know that they are the CIA and not the Mujahideen cuz Mujahideen never kills innocent pplz anywhere in the world...
Some pplz ran away after they completed their terrorist training and when they were given the task to do terrorism act in Pakistan.
So the situation here is that these under cover CIA agents are trying to hunt down these guyz before the secrecy gets leaked out....
the secrecy is already leaked out bro...
rest the whole story crafted by Mr. Raimond Davis is a cover up...
nice try guyz ...nice try....
pplz already know here that who is training and sending terrorists in Pakistan for bomb blasting...etc ...etc... everybody is smart nowadayz bro......
Awesome
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Exactly then Mr. Malik should answer why he didn't confirm this a week ago when the debate on his immunity had started off...
Release him and put Mr. Malik on trial.
Awesome
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If he has diplomatic passport and diplomatic visa, then that automatically compels Pakistan to give him immunity.
Obviously security agencies effed up by granting him immunity
Malik's competency should come into question by not manning up to this info from the get go.
Although the immunity may not be from prosecution... It will be that he'd be tried, evidence brought forward (as we've already seen that most of the bullet holes were fired on the backs of the victims), he may be declared guilty, his connection with security agencies be exposed but in the end he'd be let go due to immunity.
Technically it may be illegal to detain a diplomat for so long, but who cares, he just killed our people, he should suffer.
Spring Onion
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Because he was thinking he will GET away with issuance of visas to US operatives including CIA, BW and what not directly . the troika of Rehman Malik, Zardari and Hussain Haqqani are in this.
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VCheng
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The official line will be "due diligence for a sensitive matter". The behind the scenes story is not for public consumption, least of all in this thread.
The next few moves will end the game soon enough.
VCheng
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Those three are just figureheads. The real power in this issue lies elsewhere JanaJi.
JonAsad
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If found guilty, we can ask the Americans to waiver his diplomatic immunity, what are the chances of that happening?
VCheng
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Zip, Zero, and Zilch!
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