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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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@ American Eagle:

Sir pray that this American Rambo does get tried in the courts and doesn't bypass the legal proceedings due to the American Pressure. If that happens, You guys will be facing a situation like Iran of 1979. Trust me this hatred towards YOUR country has gone beyond control and this case will turn out to be the last nail in the coffin.

Yes you'll be up against 180 million "terrorists".
 
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We are not talking about a drunk driving case here.

We are talking about armed robbery attempted on the life and limb of a US diplomatic employee of the American Embassy in Pakistan.

Two entirely different scenarios.


It is still to be seen that whether it was an attempt of robbery or something else. Don't make your own facts, wait for the courts to give their verdict.
 
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Legal experts say courts will decide immunity issue

Updated at 1145 PST Sunday, January 30, 2011

1-30-2011_9991_l_u.jpg


By Usman Manzoor
ISLAMABAD: There might be immense pressure on Pakistan Government to release the American who killed three Pakistanis in Lahore on Thursday but Raymond Davis could only be saved from the long arm of the law if the president pardons him after the due process is completed, experts of international law say.

Former Advocate General of Sindh Barrister Farogh Naseem while talking to The News said there is no diplomatic immunity for the American killer but if immunity is claimed by either the US embassy or even by Pakistan government, a court will have to decide to grant it or not.

He mentioned that Raymond Davis was not a diplomat covered under the Vienna Conventions therefore he can not claim any immunity.

"The only thing that can save Davis is a presidential pardon available to the President of Pakistan under article 45 of the constitution," the barrister said.

He mentioned that immunity could only be claimed when a diplomat does something while performing his diplomatic duties whereas neither Davis was a diplomat nor he had killed in Lahore as part of his duty.

He said that if the American claims that he shot three persons dead in self-defence then it is for the court to decide whether the act was done in self-defence and was proportionate to the threat.

Naseem mentioned that law does not accept that if a person punches someone and receives a bullet in return as self-defence because self-defence has to be proportionate to the attack. He asked if a Pakistani ambassador, who is fully covered under the Vienna Conventions, can claim immunity after killing someone publicly in London or in Washington.

Ahmer Bilal Sufi, another expert in international law, said that when the staffer of a consulate has been arrested then the domestic law, Diplomatic and Counsellor Privileges Act 1972 applies which means the court will decide about his immunity.

He said that the status of a diplomat is clearly defined when any person is sent in any embassy either as a diplomatic agent or a counsellor staff. For counsellor staff, diplomatic immunity is not absolute. Sufi said if Pakistan government wants to set the American free, even then the courts will have to decide.

The London based Association of Pakistani Lawyers (APL), a team of Pakistani origin lawyers, solicitors, barristers, and judges in UK expressed its concerns on the extra-judicial killing of at least three people by a foreigner, Raymond Davis, in Lahore.

In a statement issued on Saturday APL sought justice for the Pakistani citizens killed by the US mission employee and urged the Chief Justice of Pakistan and the Govt of Pakistan to ensure that there is no miscarriage of justice.

"This is the biggest test of the current civil administration since its election on February 2008.

If they are negligent, it will pave way for a huge public outcry akin to Tunisia and Egypt which will have the potential to smash all those who stand between justice, fair play, equality and the free implementation of the law of the land," the statement said.


APL reminded that no leniency was shown in the case of Dr Aafia Siddiqui and the US law of the land prevailed so in this case stern action must be ensured against the perpetrators to avoid public outrage.

APL observed that criminals must be treated as criminals not as "Pakistani" criminals and or "US" criminals.
 
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We are not talking about a drunk driving case here.

We are talking about armed robbery attempted on the life and limb of a US diplomatic employee of the American Embassy in Pakistan.

Two entirely different scenarios.

I sincerely hope that the "robbery" allegation on the two killed are actually found to be true beyond doubt. but there is no such indication of that so far

and by the way what about the third person crushed to death by the second American car with a fake registration plate who ran away after the crime?

guilty or not doesnt matter.. we dont have the guts to hold a national of the most powerful country in the world. I think no country can... he is surely flying home next week and then there are book deals to sign, show to appear on, interviews and all that..
it hurts me more than it might heart you whatever I am saying but sadly its the reality.
 
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@ American Eagle:

Sir pray that this American Rambo does get tried in the courts and doesn't bypass the legal proceedings due to the American Pressure. If that happens, You guys will be facing a situation like Iran of 1979. Trust me this hatred towards YOUR country has gone beyond control and this case will turn out to be the last nail in the coffin.

Yes you'll be up against 180 million "terrorists".


If he is tried in a Pakistan court there is only one possible outcome. Guilty! Not because he did it, but becuase even if he is innocent he has already been tried and convicted by the media and public. The frenzied almost lynch mob atmosphere will make the Judges to scared to go agianst the will of the people.

I see similarities to what happened with the Blasphemy law. The public was whipped into a frenzy which resulted in the assasination of Salman Taseer. And guess what.....the Government bowed down. It didn't matter how unjust the law was. Or how it was being used to wrongfully persecute and kill people. All that mattered was public opinion...........
 
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If he is tried in a Pakistan court there is only one possible outcome. Guilty! Not because he did it, but becuase even if he is innocent he has already been tried and convicted by the media and public. The frenzied almost lynch mob atmosphere will make the Judges to scared to go agianst the will of the people.

I see similarities to what happened with the Blasphemy law. The public was whipped into a frenzy which resulted in the assasination of Salman Taseer. And guess what.....the Government bowed down. It didn't matter how unjust the law was. Or how it was being used to wrongfully persecute and kill people. All that mattered was public opinion...........

Let the courts give their verdict based on free and fair trial and if necessary they will make their findings public. Also, the same could be said about Americans. If he is tried in US, there is only one possible outcome and that is - Not Guilty!

Why don't you guys respect our court's decision when you told us to do the same when Dr. Afia was convicted?
 
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If he is tried in a Pakistan court there is only one possible outcome. Guilty! Not because he did it, but becuase even if he is innocent he has already been tried and convicted by the media and public. The frenzied almost lynch mob atmosphere will make the Judges to scared to go agianst the will of the people.

I see similarities to what happened with the Blasphemy law. The public was whipped into a frenzy which resulted in the assasination of Salman Taseer. And guess what.....the Government bowed down. It didn't matter how unjust the law was. Or how it was being used to wrongfully persecute and kill people. All that mattered was public opinion...........

I know what you are saying.
but like I said to American Eagle.. not to worry
even if he is guilty he is flying back next week
I am just amazed how we built up the guts to keep him that long

you are right about the media trial in Pakistan.. but that works both way sir.. look at how any story about Pakistan is reported in the western media. T he way the esteemed newspapers and news networks have loaded titles starting with “ a country rife with intolerance & terrorism…”
“a nuclear country at the brink of collapse, with widespread anti Western sentiment…”

So my well informed, well placed members of civilised world have already made an opinion about the story.. Its pretty much a foregone conclusion that whatever we say is wrong because .. Well because we are at the brink of collapse and our nukes will fall in the hands of Taliban and our society is intolerant…

What I see here is that “diplomat” didn’t just stop at “double tapping” the “robbers” but shot them 3 to 4 times each as if he was celebrating his shooting power.

please shed some light on why did he decide to make a run for it from police? and what about the driver of the prado who crushed a 3rd person to death and then ran away?

its not all that innocent and simple is it?
 
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@ American Eagle:
. Trust me this hatred towards YOUR country has gone beyond control and this case will turn out to be the last nail in the coffin.

Yes you'll be up against 180 million "terrorists".

you clarified so no need to Ammend.

like you, I am also upset just my way of expression is different. my only concern was that such posts give chance to the trolls to derail and spread flame.

US Embassy is shown complete insensitivity and disregard for Pakistan by saying that even if Davis commited a crime he is immune to any prosecution.
 
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I sincerely hope that the "robbery" allegation on the two killed are actually found to be true beyond doubt. but there is no such indication of that so far

and by the way what about the third person crushed to death by the second American car with a fake registration plate who ran away after the crime?

guilty or not doesnt matter.. we dont have the guts to hold a national of the most powerful country in the world. I think no country can... he is surely flying home next week and then there are book deals to sign, show to appear on, interviews and all that..
it hurts me more than it might heart you whatever I am saying but sadly its the reality.


Even the yankee self defence story is coming out as concocted as he has fired on the killed persons from behind.

:tdown:

anyway the killer will be set free but its unfortunate that old Americans are coming up with lame excuses in support of the killing
 
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If he is tried in a Pakistan court there is only one possible outcome. Guilty! Not because he did it, but becuase even if he is innocent he has already been tried and convicted by the media and public. The frenzied almost lynch mob atmosphere will make the Judges to scared to go agianst the will of the people.

I see similarities to what happened with the Blasphemy law. The public was whipped into a frenzy which resulted in the assasination of Salman Taseer. And guess what.....the Government bowed down. It didn't matter how unjust the law was. Or how it was being used to wrongfully persecute and kill people. All that mattered was public opinion...........


How you guys can even speak like that. Does Afia Siddiqi case ring a bell or conscience of Americans is as dead as anything?


But we can assume the reality and thinking keeping in mind US of A was made inhabitable by bringing criminals for settling
 
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please ammed your post.. this is no time for such hallow slogans..
you know it.. our leaders know it and Americans know it.

do you think we will all embark on terrorist attacks against USA just because a trigger happy arrogant American decided to rehearse his shooting skills in public?

Sir, You got it all wrong. The word "terrorist" was used in sarcasm as the Americans have developed a habit of labelling anybody and everybody a terrorist in Pakistan that does not agree with their point of view. All i said that the hatred towards Americans is reaching its climax and this could result in another iran like situation. Therefore I see nothing wrong in my post and I won't edit it.
 
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A Georgian diplomat in the US killed a man when his car hit him accidentally and that diplomat was charged 21 years in Prison even though he pleaded for diplomatic immunity and the Georgian Govt was involved too but nothing happened. It happened back in 1996/97 when Bill Clinton was in charge. Since it's an old news but I'll try to find a link or some news evidence to support it.

it has been posted.. post 811
 
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Go and kill some robbers in US in selfdefence.... Then i'll see how the Free American Media and Fair Courts deals with you (specially after knowing you are Pakistani)...

To the bold part I really have my doubts.
 
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If he is tried in a Pakistan court there is only one possible outcome. Guilty! Not because he did it, but becuase even if he is innocent he has already been tried and convicted by the media and public. The frenzied almost lynch mob atmosphere will make the Judges to scared to go agianst the will of the people.

I see similarities to what happened with the Blasphemy law. The public was whipped into a frenzy which resulted in the assasination of Salman Taseer. And guess what.....the Government bowed down. It didn't matter how unjust the law was. Or how it was being used to wrongfully persecute and kill people. All that mattered was public opinion...........


The Raymond Davis issue cannot be compared to the blasphemy issue. There is no frenzy in this issue, although a lot of anger and frustration.

Also, under Pakistani law, he can pay 'blood money' to the victims' familes, get pardons and walk.

If this goes to trial, there is very little chance of him getting the death penalty as it was not premeditated murder. He will get the benefit of the doubt and get a few years sentence. He can appeal and even if his sentence is upheld by the Supreme Court, the President has the power to grant pardon.

Then National Geographic can do a documentary on him in its "Jailed Abroad" series.
 
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When a US diplomatic employee is faced with attempted armed robbery upon his person by two armed robbers fresh from having robbed a Paksitani national...where has the sanity gone for the police and law officials to not understand the legalisms and defer to the Paksitani Foreign Office and in turn it to the Pakistani General Assembly Standing Committee on Internal Affairs?

Diplomatic affairs and International Law regarding diplomatic immunity are at issue, including the literal preservation of safety of a set upon US diplomatic official whose consular function deals with security.

Of course this is very similar to the frenzy over the blasphemy law(s) in that folks on this site and by news accounts "around" Pakistan are being stirrred up with false stories, wild allegations, and "hang him high" pronouncements on this website. Absolutely wrong and in appropriate in terms of Diplomatic Immunity and International Treaties, Conventions, and established procedure.

This put upon American has been accused of everything from being a Jew (he is a Gentile Protestant) to being a terrorist himself. He is in fact a victum of violent crime and merely defended himself, as well he should have, else he himself would now be dead.
 
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