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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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Ok, this is probably the lowest the USG and Pakistan's federal government of America has stooped to in this whole case.

You know those rumors of past robberies that American loyalists keep talking about as fact even though nothing has been seen or heard to prove that? They actually belong to one Umar (alias sunni), and private threats have been made against the families of the victims to accept blood money or else 5 dacoity cases would be filed against Faizan.

Please help me dig up more information towards this development, this is yet another trick, that should be foiled like the failed attempts of granting Davis immunity.

Punjab Police showing its teeth to victims of Raymond

ISLAMABAD: A powerful federal minister with the help of some ‘famous’ officers of the Punjab Police is pressuring the families of the victims of Raymond Davis to accept compensation money and forgive Raymond.

The powerful minister is now using his influence on two senior officers of the Punjab Police Service to use all means they can to persuade the families of Faizan and Faheem to enter into a settlement with Raymond Davis.

Credible sources in the federal government told The News that both the top police officials have assured the minister that they will achieve the target very soon. Brothers of deceased Faizan and Faheem have confirmed to the media that they are being offered money and many other incentives to enter into an agreement with the American killer.

According to Punjab Police officials five different FIRs of dacoity against one Umar (Alias Sunni) will be used to blackmail the family of Faizan in a way that in fact this dacoit Umar was Faizan and was using the nick name of Umar. It is already a known fact that there were three cases of different quarrels and infighting against Faizan because of some old enmity in the family.

However, according to sources the Punjab Police, using its old tactics, has now extended the FIR record from infighting to dacoity to put pressure on the family to accept the money or be ready to face the wrath of the Punjab Police.

A spokesman of the Punjab government while talking to The News said that if the Punjab government was provided with some solid evidence of involvement of these police officials immediate action will be initiated against them.

The spokesman said it is absolutely clear that even if these police officials were somehow found involved in this dirty game they might be doing this in their individual capacity and Punjab Government and Punjab Police as an institution had nothing to do with this.

IG Punjab Javed Iqbal was not ready to speak on the issue and the spokesman of the Punjab Police Naeem Akram Bharoka was said to be ill and could no speak. DPR Punjab Police Ms Nabila also was not ready to talk on the issue.

Credible sources told The News the minister has the full backing of the prime minister and other important office holders. Spokesman of the Prime Minister, Shabbir Anwar, when approached by The News, however, said he could confirm that the prime minister has not asked any one to pressure the families to accept US money.

“In his speeches Prime Minister Gilani has only mentioned it as an option, that accepting money (diyat) is an Islamic way so it could also be adopted. But the PM never asked any one to pressure the families into accepting it,” said Shabbir Anwar.
 
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I think some people here are wrongfully twisting facts and jumping to conclusion without any proof or facts.

First one being: the victims were robbers and it was a robbery attempt. As far as I know nothing has been made clear and official about the victims criminal background, if any. If it was indicated as so in the priminalry police report, though I don't know when, then it was just that, a priminalry report which can be amended with more facts. Quiet common in police work. And let's assume they were criminals and the police is covering it up, then that is a very clossal accusation in a case of this sort. The police simply can't expunge criminal records of people, that too of armed robbers, as the records, courts findings, indictments and convictions can be found in various govt offices, court and jail houses etc.

If they were robbers, you'll know in court, no one can cover that up. Defense will flaunt that in the courtroom, touting it was a robbery case. But coming to that conclusion on your own is unfair.

If the victims were criminals, that would certainly help Davis' case. What doesn't help him is carrying illegal weapons and his presence in that area and what diplomatic duties he was performing there?
 
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A well respected figure in Pakistani journalism for his blunt words, leaves the entire murkiness of the matter naked and exposed, that is how the American loyalists stand and are now grasping at straws covering their privates:

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how can you assume that they were robbers ??????
even the investigations shows us that they were not robbers.....


even if they are robbers (everyone doubts that) Davis still had no right to kill them.,..... if you are in NY next time if someone try to rob you please kill that person ...... how much you people can go down....... he killed 2 people

you didnt said anything about the 3rd person WHY? coz he was not robber??? killed by US car come on say something about this .... if you have any grounds???? maybe you will come up with as it was accident on the road...but Mr. they were coming to rescue this person who killed you people in day light and they were near by as well and part of that gang killers...

i want them all to be hanged ASAP...justice need to done now..,
 
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CIA will do wwhatever it take to free there man they will turn no stone unturn and finally they will be sucessful .I know that coz most of the people in our government and bureaucracy are american pupets , they just love to lick there masters boots ,some low life creeps .
If we really need to show this world that we have some self respect its the time we show them .
May Allah help us all in knowing our very own self respect .May Allah protect my Pakistan and its people from these blood suckers.
 
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do read the whole Q & A... I liked it because it didnt have the American rhetoric of Diplomatic immunity & Pakistani emotions

BBC News - Q&A: Lahore shootings - unanswered questions




above is the most interesting bit.. Raymond Case seems to be a smoke screen.. he was protecting the contents and people in the land cruiser that was there all the time with him.. as BBC notes.. its impossible to reach him in 5 mins of his call in the Lahore trafic...
 
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do read the whole Q & A... I liked it because it didnt have the American rhetoric of Diplomatic immunity & Pakistani emotions

BBC News - Q&A: Lahore shootings - unanswered questions




above is the most interesting bit.. Raymond Case seems to be a smoke screen.. he was protecting the contents and people in the land cruiser that was there all the time with him.. as BBC notes.. its impossible to reach him in 5 mins of his call in the Lahore trafic...

IB: Sir, RD's case may very well have many layers of complexity, but the boundaries of the issues have already been carefully and closely defined, and no further digging up would benefit anybody. You may of course disagree with me here, but I am sure you will understand why I say this.
 
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Stratfor warns of widespread mob violence in Pakistan

News Desk
Friday, February 18, 2011

WASHINGTON: US-based Global Intelligence Forecast Organisation, Stratfor, has revealed that American diplomatic facilities and business interests in Pakistan were ‘almost certainly’ reviewing their contingency plans right now and planning for the worst-case scenario anticipating widespread disturbances because of the murders committed by Raymond Davis who, it said, did not enjoy diplomatic immunity.

Stratfor revealed that as a contract employee assigned to the US Consulate in Lahore, Davis was likely not on the diplomatic list and probably did not enjoy full diplomatic immunity.

In a detailed report by Scott Stewart, Stratfor said the case could have larger consequences for Davis and for American diplomatic facilities and commercial interests in Pakistan. “There is a very real possibility that Davis’ release could spark mob violence in Pakistan (and specifically Lahore). Even if the Pakistani government does try to defuse the situation, there are other parties who will attempt to stir up violence. “Due to the widespread discontent over the issue of US security contractors in Pakistan, if protests do follow the release of Davis, they can be expected to be similar to the protests that followed Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) [sacrilegious] cartoon case, i.e., they will cut across ethnic and sectarian lines and present a widespread threat.”

He was probably considered a member of the administrative or technical staff. Protecting himself during a robbery attempt would not be considered part of his official function in the country, and therefore his actions that day would not be covered under functional immunity.

At the time of the shooting, of course, Davis would not have had time to leisurely ponder the potential legal quagmire. He saw a threat and reacted to it.

Indeed, on Feb 15, US Senator John Kerry flew to Islamabad in a bid to seek Davis’ release. However, in spite of American efforts and international convention, Davis’ case is complicated greatly by the fact that he was working in Pakistan and by the current state of US-Pakistani relations.

Like Iraq, Pakistan is a country that has seen considerable controversy over American security contractors over the past several years. The government of Pakistan has gone after security contractor companies like DynCorp and its Pakistani affiliate InterRisk and Xe (formerly known as Blackwater), which has become the Pakistani version of the bogeyman. In addition to the clandestine security and intelligence work the company was conducting in Pakistan, in 2009 the Taliban even began to blame Xe for suicide bombing attacks that killed civilians. The end result is that American security contractors have become extremely unpopular in Pakistan. They are viewed not only as an affront to Pakistani sovereignty but also as trigger-happy killers. And this is the environment in which the Davis shooting occurred.

The report warns that if the protesters are able to set fire to the building (where Davis has been lodged), as happened at the US Embassy in Islamabad in 1979, a safe-haven can become a death trap, especially if the mob can take control of the secondary escape hatch as it did in that incident, trapping the Americans inside the safe-haven.

Once a mob attacks, there often is little that can be done - especially if the host government either cannot or will not take action to protect the facility being attacked. At that point, the focus should be on preventing injuries and saving lives - without regard to the physical property. In most cases, when a mob attacks a multinational corporation, it is attacking a symbolic target.

US diplomatic facilities and business interests in Pakistan are almost certainly reviewing their contingency plans right now and planning for the worst-case scenario. During such times, vigilance and preparation are vital, as is a constant flow of updated intelligence pertaining to potential demonstrations. Such intelligence can provide time for an evacuation or allow other proactive security measures to be taken. With the current tension between Pakistan and the United States, there might not be much help coming when the next wave of unrest erupts, so keeping ahead of potential protests is critically important, Stratfor concluded.
 
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In this week Australian FO went to close its consulates in Lahore & Karachi and advised Australian citizens to respect Pakistan's law & order, moreover advised not to photograph important sensitive buildings.

So there is no any kind of advice to its citizens by US government which shows their behavior to Pakistan.

What respect they are looking for in Pakistan if they didn't respect rules & regulations of Pakistan?
 
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Spy Feud Hampers Antiterror Efforts

Ties between U.S. and Pakistani intelligence agencies have deteriorated sharply in recent months, compromising cooperation on a range of critical counter-terrorism efforts, including U.S. drone strikes targeting top militant leaders, current and former officials say.

Some U.S. officials describe relations between the two spy agencies as the worst since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. One senior official said the tensions have cost the U.S. the chance to strike at some senior terrorists in the region.

The state of relations, while never perfect, is now alarming counter-terrorism and military officials, who say close cooperation between the Central Intelligence Agency and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence is essential to the campaign against al Qaeda and the war against the Taliban and its allies in Afghanistan.

Behind the falling out is a series of controversial incidents starting late last year, which prompted tit-for-tat accusations that burst into the open with the December outing of the CIA's station chief in Islamabad.

More recently, tensions have risen to new highs over Pakistan's detention of former Special Forces soldier Raymond Davis, a U.S. government contractor in the city of Lahore, for killing two Pakistanis in disputed circumstances. A Pakistani court Thursday ruled to delay by three weeks a hearing on whether Mr. Davis is covered by diplomatic immunity.

Earlier this week, President Barack Obama urged Pakistan to honor a 1961 treaty on diplomatic immunity to which both Pakistan and the U.S are signatories. Pakistan's central government faces public pressure from Islamist and student groups not to release Mr. Davis, who shot dead the two men on Jan. 27 in the center of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. Mr. Davis has said the men were trying to rob him at gunpoint.

Faced with pointed questions from lawmakers about strained ties with Pakistan, CIA Director Leon Panetta this week acknowledged relations between intelligence agencies were "one of the most complicated" he's ever seen. While the ISI continues to help the U.S. target al Qaeda leaders in the tribal areas, Mr. Panetta said its policies in other areas are in direct conflict with the U.S., stoking frequent tensions.

One U.S. official briefed on the matter, defending the agency's handling of the ties, acknowledged that relations were in a "trough at the moment," but rejected suggestions they were at their worst since 9/11. He said the disagreements stem not from a lack of cooperation "but because the Pakistanis are pulling stunts that just don't make any sense."

The CIA has long used intelligence from the ISI to help identify targets for drone strikes in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan. Officials on both sides say the CIA now operates largely autonomously, especially since the U.S. has been concentrating its fire on the Haqqani militant network in the North Waziristan region.

U.S. officials say the ISI no longer provides the CIA with targeting information in most cases. A senior Pakistani official said of the CIA: "They don't ask us before they fire their missiles."

The ISI has long nurtured ties with the Haqqanis, which it sees as a strategic asset that can help Islamabad fend off Indian influences in neighboring Afghanistan, especially as U.S. forces begin pulling out in July. Washington, in contrast, sees the Haqqanis, who have been responsible for spectacular attacks in Kabul, as the biggest single threat to Western and Afghan forces, particularly in eastern Afghanistan. The group has emerged as one of the main targets of the drone strikes over the past year.

"The [ISI has] no intention of helping the United States degrade the Haqqani network," a U.S. official said.

The CIA hasn't conducted any drone strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan since Jan. 23, one of the longest known periods without a strike since the beginning of the Obama administration. Drone strikes peaked in September with a record 22 attacks. They've been falling since then to a low of nine in January.

U.S. intelligence officials attribute the recent drop off in the number of strikes to bad winter weather. Other officials and experts say weather may well be a factor, but that the sharp drop in strikes also suggests that the CIA may be having trouble pinpointing new Haqqani targets, either because militants have gone deeper into hiding or have moved to new areas, possibly with the help of ISI.

Two tribesmen in North Waziristan say the weather has been mixed, cloudy some days or sunny on others, since Jan. 24. They said aircraft they believe to be drones can be seen flying overhead on clearer days but there have been no strikes.

The Haqqani network has long used Miranshah in North Waziristan as its main base of operations in Pakistan. But U.S. officials and outside experts say there are signs the group may be moving to a neighboring tribal area known as Kurram, possibly with the help of ISI agents, making it harder for the CIA to find targets to strike in North Waziristan.

Jeff Dressler, an expert on the Haqqani network with the Institute for the Study of War who frequently briefs U.S. military leaders, said the movement into Kurram would more than double the size of the group's safe haven in Pakistan and provide its fighters, which are aligned with al Qaeda and the Taliban, with easier access to the greater Kabul area, approximately 60 miles away, to carry out attacks.

U.S. officials suspect the ISI has at a minimum tracked the militants' movements, but the Pakistani government hasn't shared that intelligence with the CIA. "No one can move out of Miranshah without someone in the Pakistani government knowing about it, especially the bigger fish," a U.S. official said.

The problems between the CIA and ISI stem from a number of factors, including Pakistani anger over public comments by U.S. officials that Pakistan isn't doing enough to combat militancy, and Pakistani concerns that the CIA is building up its own spy network as an end run around the ISI. U.S. officials, in turn, blamed ISI for leaking the identity of the CIA's station chief.

Meetings between ISI and CIA officials, formerly held every 10 days or so, have become less frequent, a senior ISI official said. A U.S. official said contacts continued but offered few details.

Pakistan last year also quietly shut down at least two so-called fusion centers that brought together U.S. and Pakistani military intelligence officials.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.), chairman of the Intelligence Committee, said she now sees the CIA-ISI relationship as "something less than wholehearted partnership" because the ISI is "walking both sides of the street."
 
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It never ceases to amaze me the fake sinister plots that some "invent" in Pakistan. There are of course trouble making Taliban supporters on this site and they are most likely the root cause of these wild west stories, which develop when the hard facts...that Mr. Davis has Diplomatic Immunity...are well known and vouched for by the person of the President of the United States himself on live TV earlier this week.

Avoidance of the criminal history of the two robbers is impossible, as was clear from the outset when the first robbed two Pakitani gentlemen whose cell phones and cash were recovered after their failed stick up attempt on Mr. Davis.

Perhaps it is time to shut this Thread down since PDF is a military forum, not a place for comic book made up spy stories?
 
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It never ceases to amaze me the fake sinister plots that some "invent" in Pakistan. There are of course trouble making Taliban supporters on this site and they are most likely the root cause of these wild west stories, which develop when the hard facts...that Mr. Davis has Diplomatic Immunity...are well known and vouched for by the person of the President of the United States himself on live TV earlier this week.

Avoidance of the criminal history of the two robbers is impossible, as was clear from the outset when the first robbed two Pakitani gentlemen whose cell phones and cash were recovered after their failed stick up attempt on Mr. Davis.

Perhaps it is time to shut this Thread down since PDF is a military forum, not a place for comic book made up spy stories?

How many time do i tell you that anything which goes against USA doest mean that its by Taliban you people need to fix your brains out first :) even blaming that Talibans are on this site too nice jokes...

FACT is Mr davis is not a diplomat and there is no immunity​
... even if Obama start saying its night in day then only you are going to trust him.

immunity is not given what USA think or in what context he was in Pakistan ...immunity is only given if Pakistan's Fo have given out such documents and treated him as US Diplomat ...... i hope you got the point now


BEST SOLUTION IS USA NEED TO TAKE OFF ALL EXTRA PEOPLE OUT OF PAKISTAN AND WORK WITH PAKISTAN TO SOLVE THE AFGHANISTAN ISSUES OTHERWISE USA WILL NOT GET OUT OF THIS .......


now don't come back to me crying like baby for 9/11 ....we have seen bigger 9/11s in this WOT...

no one have asked to open 'Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story ' and give your comments.....
 
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It never ceases to amaze me the fake sinister plots that some "invent" in Pakistan. There are of course trouble making Taliban supporters on this site and they are most likely the root cause of these wild west stories, which develop when the hard facts...that Mr. Davis has Diplomatic Immunity...are well known and vouched for by the person of the President of the United States himself on live TV earlier this week.

Avoidance of the criminal history of the two robbers is impossible, as was clear from the outset when the first robbed two Pakitani gentlemen whose cell phones and cash were recovered after their failed stick up attempt on Mr. Davis.

Perhaps it is time to shut this Thread down since PDF is a military forum, not a place for comic book made up spy stories?

Conspiracy theory aside, there are still major unknowns about the case as raised many major newspapers. What makes me a little curious is how you can state your case with such certainty.
 
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It never ceases to amaze me the fake

Avoidance of the criminal history of the two robbers is impossible, as was clear from the outset when the first robbed two Pakitani gentlemen whose cell phones and cash were recovered after their failed stick up attempt on Mr. Davis

Where is this information coming from?
 
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It never ceases to amaze me the fake sinister plots that some "invent" in Pakistan. There are of course trouble making Taliban supporters on this site and they are most likely the root cause of these wild west stories, which develop when the hard facts...that Mr. Davis has Diplomatic Immunity...are well known and vouched for by the person of the President of the United States himself on live TV earlier this week.

Avoidance of the criminal history of the two robbers is impossible, as was clear from the outset when the first robbed two Pakitani gentlemen whose cell phones and cash were recovered after their failed stick up attempt on Mr. Davis.

Perhaps it is time to shut this Thread down since PDF is a military forum, not a place for comic book made up spy stories?

Well conduct of the US embassy was less than impressive specially regarding the “backup” land cruiser that “reached” the scene in minutes and after running over few people and crushing one to death it absconded..

Just like you have conveniently ignored my questions about that 3rd death of a bystander. The US embassy has so far failed to even show any regret or explain why it is not cooperating with the authorities. Mrs Clinton was all pumped up and emotional damning the traffic fine dodging diplomats. But here we have a hit and run incident that has resulted in one fatality and 3 people injured.

All the stories and fantasies (as you put it) that are being cooked up by the people and the media are a reflection of a public mood that wont be any different had it happened in Manhattan at the hands of a Pakistani diplomat. . Then the FOX News would have been leading the stories and heating up the public emotions with comments like.
“ruthless ISI operative shows no value to live in a civilized society… , look this is how they repay us… American taxpayer pays them to survive and they are all out disrespecting our laws & our “freedom”….

This debate will go on as long as we don’t get the end of it. It is highly likely that Davis will fly back to US eventually but I don’t think it was a simple matter of innocent self defence. Pakistanis have held their ground even after the visits of your heavies from government and CIA etc. there is definitely something more than meets the eye (I hate speculating and hypothesising but cant help it here now).

Both American & British operatives were caught red handed by Iraqis who instigated the sectarian wars and almost broke Iraq on sectarian bases due to the resulting sectarian wars. it hurt me to say but sometimes I do wonder about the sophistication of some terrorist attacks and the endless funds of the Pakistani Taliban. and yes I see the similarities in the pattern in the workings of these “contractors” and “technical advisors” found to be a common factor in both Iraq and Pakistan.
 
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