Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[SpArK]

Indeed, sad but true. Washington has a lot of damage control to do now considering they want Islamabad to step up the operations in Feb...

I can see a lot of cheap politicians on both sides using this to their advantage. Shame those three became mere statistics once again. Life here is truly meaningless.

Added to my spreadsheet.. 29,109 Pakistanis dead and counting...

We know it more than you do.. We tried to extradite the main accused int the Bhopal tragedy case to India for trials and US hit back with the line ' pursuing the Bhopal case might have a chilling effect on US investment.". Also the United States State Department said the Bhopal gas tragedy case is legally closed.

Even though this is not a similar case, but it proves how the US go to any extend to defend its citizens.

 

[RescueRanger]

One of my American friends claimed a cop once told him, "If you ever shoot a burglar in your house, make sure to put a knife in his hand. That way you can claim self-defence."

Lol yar that's nothing. Shoot someone in Pakistan, pay the responding cops a few hundred k and they will plant an entire arsenal on the poor sod and when his relatives come to seek justice they will lock up those innocent, unsuspecting lot and implicate them in some grand robbery scheme.

By the time they are done with the Thana/Kachari they will be in their 50's and probably dead.

So much for "protect and serve".

 

[Majnun]

US official guns down two motorcyclists in Lahore | DAWN.COM | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia

LAHORE: A ‘US Consulate employee’ allegedly shot at and killed two young motorcyclists here on Thursday, while another motorcyclist was run over by his colleagues riding another car, police and witnesses said.

Raymond David told police that he had opened fire in self-defence. Quoting the accused, police said the car that crushed the motorcyclist had come to Qurtaba Chowk, the place of incident, in order to rescue him (David). “The rashly driven Prado crossed the median on Jail Road, ran over the young motorcyclist and disappeared in a flash,” a witness said.

Raymond David also fled the scene, but two traffic wardens chased and overpowered him in Old Anarkali Food Street and handed him over to police, Chief Traffic Officer Ahmad Mobeen told Dawn.

More than 100 people blocked the road after the incident by setting tyres on fire to protest the killing. The protest later moved to picket the police station where the car involved in the incident was impounded.

Police recovered from his possession a 9mm Glock pistol he had used to shoot the youngsters and shifted him to the South Cantonment police station.

A senior police officer told Dawn that Raymond David was among four people who were detained by security personnel near Lahores Sherpao Bridge on Dec 9, 2009, when they were trying to enter the Cantonment area in a vehicle with tinted glasses. They were armed with sophisticated weapons. The intervention of the US consulate led to their release, the officer recalled.

“No member of a diplomatic mission in a country is allowed to carry arms.

Only security personnel are permitted to do so and that too after informing the local security authorities in advance regarding their movement,” he said.

Civil Lines Division SP Umer Saeed said the arrested US Consulate employee was not carrying any licence for the weapon recovered from his possession.

Quoting the suspect, the SP said he was being chased by the armed motorcyclists. As soon as he reached Qurtaba Chowk, one of them tried to kill him, he told the police.

Preliminarily investigation suggested that as the motorcyclists wanted to mug the foreigner, he killed them in self-defence, the SP said, adding that one of the two was identified as Faizan Haider of Ravi Road.

Mohammad Ramzan, a salesman at a shop on Jail Road, told Dawn that he saw a foreigner leaving his Honda car in a hurry and with a pistol in his hand. “Within seconds he trained his gun at two motorcyclists standing at the Qurtaba Chowk traffic signal and opened fire,” he said.

Both the youngsters suffered multiple injuries and fell on the road. The foreigner immediately drove away his car towards Mozang Chowk.

One of the motorcyclists died on the spot while the other in Services Hospital. SP Umar Saeed said the motorcyclists were also carrying pistols at that time. He denied reports about the cross-fire and said police also recovered two pistols from the place. The other motorcyclist, who was run over by the colleagues of David, was identified as Ibadur Rehman, of Gulshan-i-Ravi. He ran a cosmetics shop at Auriga Complex in Gulberg.

The police sent the bodies of three men to the city morgue for autopsy.

No case was registered till the filing of this report.

Amjad Mahmood adds: Raymond David was shifted to the US Consulate on the directives of provincial authorities.

Punjab government sources said that immediately after the arrest of David, police authorities informed Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif and sought instructions for further action. The sources said the chief minister discussed the issue with Consul General Carmila Conroy and directed police to shift Mr David to the consulate.

Anarkali DSP Safdar Raza Kazmi took David in his vehicle to the consulate, although police were claiming that he was lodged in the North Cantonment police station.

Efforts to obtain the version of Punjab government spokesman Senator Pervaiz Rashid were in vain.

A senior police officer said Mr David, a technical officer of the US consulate in Lahore, had spent two years in Afghanistan and was well-trained to combat any critical situation.

As soon as one of the motorcyclists drew pistol, he acted within seconds, targeting him with four shots. He then fired three shots at his companion.

Of the seven shots, the police officer added, he missed only one as police found six shells he fired form his pistol.

He said the Prado used by David’s other colleagues bore a fake registration number (LZN-6970) which was originally issued to a Suzuki Cultus car. He said the police record had confirmed that Faizan Haider was involved in dacoities.

Meanwhile, on the complaint of Imran Haider, a brother of Faizan Haider, Lytton Road police registered a murder case against David. On another complaint, police registered a case against unknown occupants of the Prado which caused the death of Ibadur Rehman.

 

[American Eagle]

I had already read this story in DAWN but thanks for posting it.

You might also want to read the story in today's Peshawar FRONTIER POST which while typically somewhat convoluted ends up admitting that the shooters attacked the American first, not the other way around.

I made a memory mistake when referring to a third cyclist, and I apologize for misremembering that point.

However I did not misremember the day before terrorist suicide bombing deaths and wounded right there in Lahore, which no one today or in the succeeding two days seems to be bothered about vs. trying to blame an American for defending himself. Logical of picking and choosing and as I used to experience in Pakistan of old (West Pakistan) flatly making it up to suit preconceived hate object lessons actually is pretty much to pattern and is a sad commentary as I had thought some younger Pakistanis were getting better, broader, and more objective educations in Paksitan and overseas as well.

 

[mughaljee]

any Pakistani forigen Officials man can carry guns in any country of the World like they (USA) doing. ?

 

[sh72011]

an unnamed police officer said the gora seemed triger-happy person who shot indiscriminately 8 bullets in chest of one and 5 in other then got out of the car nad made vedio on his mobile till the rescue from his ome came and drove in one way traffic killing the only bread earner of old lady. Yeh what will we do? news from media lahore were he was flown back to islamabads safe haven while one of local tv says he is appearing before the court. How much more shameless can we become is to see I thought we had hit the rock bottom!

 

[Majnun]

I had already read this story in DAWN but thanks for posting it.

You might also want to read the story in today's Peshawar FRONTIER POST which while typically somewhat convoluted ends up admitting that the shooters attacked the American first, not the other way around.

I made a memory mistake when referring to a third cyclist, and I apologize for misremembering that point.

However I did not misremember the day before terrorist suicide bombing deaths and wounded right there in Lahore, which no one today or in the succeeding two days seems to be bothered about vs. trying to blame an American for defending himself. Logical of picking and choosing and as I used to experience in Pakistan of old (West Pakistan) flatly making it up to suit preconceived hate object lessons actually is pretty much to pattern and is a sad commentary as I had thought some younger Pakistanis were getting better, broader, and more objective educations in Paksitan and overseas as well.

The difference between this and that is that in this case the killer is being let off after having been caught, because he is an American. In the other case, of the bombings in Karachi and Lahore, the killer wasn't caught and released. Other than that, you will find people unhappy about the freedom with which those preaching violence roam.

 

[humanfirst]

Let the american guy face trials and prove his innocence-that he was only acting in self defence.

 

[mehru]

Good God 21 pages of seething comments, my eyes are burning after reading all the comments. You guys really hate the Americans don't you. The threads about the blast in Lahore and Karachi few days ago got 4 pages each. Somehow an American consulate worker killing 3 people (unprovoked or not) makes your blood boil but suicide bombers killing innocent Pakistanis is not as bad as this?

One of you said how the two men riding the bike were carrying pistols for self defense. So a common Pakistani citizen can carry a gun for self defense but an American Consulate staff can't? Would you guys react in the same way if a Pakistani consulate worker had done the same in America? Would the Americans react in the same way? I doubt it, wait for the investigations to conclude at least, but you don't even trust your own government or police.

I understand the situation in Pakistan is a bit edgy these days, but don't let paranoia take over logic and reasoning. Sorry if this comment offends you guys, cut me some slack and let me know , I will delete it.

It's a murder case, not a terrorism case. In case of bomb blasts, if you are counting the pages then let me remind you that Data darbar bombings got 45 pages. I didn't know that the number of pages show someone's concern. A very strange logic.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...st-crowded-daata-darbar-shrine-lahore-45.html

Coming back to the topic, it is true that some Pakistanis are acting emotionally because they are from the victim's side. I think it's natural and expected. It's wrong to judge someone's intentions in anger.

 

[mehru]

where did you read they were shot in the back?

(not at all arguing, Im just curious where it was stated)

It came on the local news channel quoting hospital authorities. Still it doesn't prove anything. Thorough investigation is needed. Wait for the medical report.

Meanwhile a Private TV channel quoting hospital sources informed that one killed person sustained 6 bullets in back, while the other one was hit with one frontal and three rear bullet hits.

ONLINE - International News Network

 

[Hawk Eyes]

this is a r.a.w conspiracy.

 

[Hawk Eyes]

28 January 2011 Last updated at 03:16 ET

US official Raymond David on Lahore murder charge

A US consular employee has been charged with murder after two motorcyclists were shot dead on a busy street in the Pakistani city of Lahore, police say.

Raymond David reportedly said he fired his gun in self-defence because the men were pursuing him in his car.

Another person was run over and killed by a vehicle carrying Mr David's colleagues as they came to his aid, police and witnesses said.

Mr David is expected in court later in the Punjab province capital.

Lahore's police chief, Aslam Tareen, told the BBC Mr David was employed on "security duties" in the consulate.

Protests

He did not have diplomatic immunity and was not one of the foreign security personnel allowed to carry firearms, according to the Pakistani authorities.

Mr Tareen said a Glock pistol had been recovered from Mr David and that pistols had also been found on the two men shot dead.

Mr David said in a statement that the motorcycle rider and his pillion passenger had been trying to hijack his vehicle at gunpoint, according to police.

The US embassy in Islamabad has confirmed the man involved was a consular official but has not specified his role.

The funerals of the three people killed in the incident are expected to take place later on Friday.

More than 100 protesters blocked the road in the aftermath of Thursday's incident, setting tyres ablaze.

Demonstrators later gathered outside the police station where the foreigner's car - a white Honda Civic with a Lahore registration plate - was impounded.

Details of the shooting are still unclear, but a salesman, Mohammad Ramzan, told Dawn newspaper that he had seen a foreigner rushing from a car holding a gun.

"Within seconds he trained his gun at two motorcyclists standing at the Qurtaba Chowk traffic signal and opened fire," Mr Ramzan said.

Police said that the foreigner had used a radio to call colleagues for help immediately after the shooting - and that a second consular car turned up to rescue him.

It is believed the third person killed was run over by the vehicle as it sped to his aid.

The foreigner had tried to flee the scene, but two traffic wardens chased and detained him nearby before handing him over to police, chief traffic officer Ahmad Mobeen told Dawn.

The BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan in Pakistan says that the incident could worsen anti-American sentiment in Pakistan.

"We want to make sure that a tragedy like this does not affect the strategic partnership that we're building with Pakistan," state department spokesman Philip Crowley told journalists in Washington.

"And we'll work as hard as we can to explain that to the Pakistani people."

BBC News - US official Raymond David on Lahore murder charge

 

[Hawk Eyes]

^^^The shooter Raymond David is Jewish.

 

[mehru]

I had already read this story in DAWN but thanks for posting it.

You might also want to read the story in today's Peshawar FRONTIER POST which while typically somewhat convoluted ends up admitting that the shooters attacked the American first, not the other way around.

I made a memory mistake when referring to a third cyclist, and I apologize for misremembering that point.

However I did not misremember the day before terrorist suicide bombing deaths and wounded right there in Lahore, which no one today or in the succeeding two days seems to be bothered about vs. trying to blame an American for defending himself. Logical of picking and choosing and as I used to experience in Pakistan of old (West Pakistan) flatly making it up to suit preconceived hate object lessons actually is pretty much to pattern and is a sad commentary as I had thought some younger Pakistanis were getting better, broader, and more objective educations in Paksitan and overseas as well.

Please read this version too
‘American Rambo’ goes berserk in City | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

According to Police, Faizan didn't fire a single shot.

I think that you are referring to this newspaper.

The Frontier Post

Superintendent of Police Umer Saeed is actually repeating what Davis told him. Look in other news resources. You will get the idea. There are no investigations done in this case. Umar Saeed even faced heat from Punjab Govt for giving such a statement before investigation.

It is important to mention here that Dawn, Nation and The News are considered credible news resources in Pakistan.

In the end, beleive what you want to beleive but i think it's better if Davis proves his innocence in the court. In this way, no harm will done and people will be satisfied. I hope you will agree too.

 

[mehru]

this is a r.a.w conspiracy.

Seriously man! Stop embarrassing your fellow Pakistanis. Statements such as these will give others an excuse that Pakistanis believe in conspiracy theories more than facts.

Edit your posts kindly.