Rapping for freedom and the end of communism in Vietnam

[biendong]

Many Viet Hoa also came back to join CPC during the civil war against KMT.

Of course, the 1979 war was initiated when the Vietnamese government started the persecution against Hoa.

Few years ago, there were also many Hoa visited PDF and claimed that they would laugh their a$$ off when seeing Vietnam got bombed by China.

Overall, the Hoa is a very pro-CPC faction among the Chinese groups in Southeast Asia.

Nope.

When Pol Pot betrayed Vietnam and attacked on Viet-Cam border with helpe of CPC, Hua Chinese in Saigon had demonstrated to ask give back them Taiwan citizenship from time of Ngo Dinh Diem. Who forced them changed to Viet citizenship if they would like to do business in Vietnam.

Come on be realistic .Do you really think Vietnam is in the position to make such demands？Let's save the squabble of
whose claim is more rightful, the fact is all the chinese learned from primary school with the map containing SCS and all the way they grew up，now you want to tell them a small country called Vietnam just swoop in and took the island from them？

If you really wish for 1.3bln people go to sleep everynight grinding their teeth and thinking about how to murder this small neighbor，then be my guest，let me remind you there are far more dangerous and capable people in China than you and even the westerners may think . The "sincere suggestion" would be to hand over the Spratly and at the same time，name a good price for it，while you sill can.

I know for a fact that 1) everything has a price ；2）vietnamese people can be realistic if they want to. So think twice before dismiss what I said as“ chinese bully”，cause that‘s as sincere as I can be

Bottom line: nobody wants a war

Islands of Vietnam is not cake, china could stolen and eat it quickly. Islands are still there. China can not eat and swallow our Islands.

 

[NarThoD]

The thing between Vietnamese and Indonesian members is mostly related to some very competitive members that can't relate to others without the thing about "I'm better than you", its a very tribal way of thinking, but we do live in a very tribal world.

Well feeling competitive it's basic human nature. Yes we do live in a tribal and harsh world, wish for stronger heart than begging for easier life.

@Yorozuya
Sorry man i haven't replying you, a week? Busy week indeed and i'll soon replying to you again.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

You are probably right, I would say they are trying to follow the chinese model and hoping that it will last long enough, western style economy with the autocratic political system of the VCP. In China the system is probably going to last longer since the chinese are a lot better than Vietnam at managing the economy, the SOESs, etc and produce results that people can see and at the same time, their control of power and suppression is more comprehensive. So in theory they are right to expect that it can last a while.
That being said, the 28 trillion usd housing bubble and the big stock market bubble that they have now, can easily collapse the economy and then all the bets are off.

In Vietnam, without foreign investment, the country would be back to where it was in 1990.
2014 exports were 150 billion usd, of that, 112 billion from foreign companies, that says everything. The state based part of the economy on the other hand, only produced a 69 billion usd debt. Foreign investment is what keeps the country afloat even that the system always manages to find ways to mess things up a bit. The regime in Vietnam has a gentler face than in China and overall, Vietnam is more open than China and that also contributes to a more sustainable situation, but long term, something has to give.

It will be interesting to watch and see what happens in both Vietnam and China.



As a foreigner living in Vietnam that also has being going to China extensibly for the last 12 years, I can say that there is no country as similar to China as Vietnam, by far. Everything is very similar, the people are very similar, even the same bad habits. They are not the same, but almost the same in so many ways. If China were to be smarter, they would make Vietnam their best ally and treat them like the little brother, but the problem is, big brother always try to control or conquer the little brother, so in practice things don't workout as well as it should.

The thing between Vietnamese and Indonesian members is mostly related to some very competitive members that can't relate to others without the thing about "I'm better than you", its a very tribal way of thinking, but we do live in a very tribal world.

I've said many times already, if Chinese stop to domineer, and return the islands to Vietnam, Vietnam will be a great ally of the China. But unfortunately, Americans have successfully used greed of China because Chinese people alway wish to use the old tactic to gradually swallow the world. Now Americans struggling against processes of the "Chinese swallow the world".

Ultimately every sincere suggestion here is nonsense.

China is not trying to dominate Vietnam. China has territorial disputes with Vietnam. And it takes two to tango. Why don't Vietnam give up those islands and China and Vietnam can be the best of friends.

 

[VALKRYIE]

Many Viets of the Hoa descent will have a such mentality; the stronger China got, the more they are clinging to their Chinese identity.

This represents a significant portion of Hoa, that's why the Vietnamese government never trusted them.

China is a country that they share the blood tie with, meanwhile it is becoming a superpower, so most people with the Chinese blood will love to take part of the pride.

I notice that too it's quite annoying Hoa have some form of inferiority complex.

FYI a lot of successful Hong Kong celebrities are from Vietnam.

first, anti china feeling exists since the dinosaur time, not since northvietnam took over southvietnam. PRC stopped all supports to northvietnam since 1968 and started hostile actions including military means to punish vietnam. why? because northvietnam signed military alliance with USSR.

second, the hoa enjoy all freedoms in vietnam. of course, including watching chinese movies and dramas.

last, if any Hoa thinks vietnam is poor and backward, while china is great and rich, he/she can leave. despite all anti china feeling, we give them foods, shelter and home when they need us. if anyone feels we are inferior to chinese race, we won´t stop them to go.

Only those self hating Hoa who harbour animosity toward VCP government for prosecution. Hoa hating Viets is like hating yourself. They are already assimilated, mix with Kinh, know the culture, their parents or themselves speak the language and have relatives in VN.

The ones I know are neutral/somewhat proud to be Vietnamese. There's a lot of them in Chinatown. It's funny when they speak Vietnamese and revert back/mix with Cantonese, Hakka and Teochew.

 

[Carlosa]

China is not trying to dominate Vietnam. China has territorial disputes with Vietnam. And it takes two to tango. Why don't Vietnam give up those islands and China and Vietnam can be the best of friends.

The typical historical relationship between VN and china has been one where China usually controls, occupies Vietnam, etc.

Yes, it takes 2 to tango and it should not be one giving everything to the other, why VN has to give up the islands? Why not china, or why not a split?

Well feeling competitive it's basic human nature. Yes we do live in a tribal and harsh world, wish for stronger heart than begging for easier life.

@Yorozuya
Sorry man i haven't replying you, a week? Busy week indeed and i'll soon replying to you again.

Competitive was just a nice way to call it. Some things are just not acceptable.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I notice that too it's quite annoying Hoa have some form of inferiority complex.

FYI a lot of successful Hong Kong celebrities are from Vietnam.



Only those self hating Hoa who harbour animosity toward VCP government for prosecution. Hoa hating Viets is like hating yourself. They are already assimilated, mix with Kinh, know the culture, their parents or themselves speak the language and have relatives in VN.

The ones I know are neutral/somewhat proud to be Vietnamese. There's a lot of them in Chinatown. It's funny when they speak Vietnamese and revert back/mix with Cantonese, Hakka and Teochew.

Back then, the Hoa were obsessed with the HK/Taiwan's culture, now they are shifting to the Mainland China's culture.

It is the fact, many Hoa love China and are more clinging to their Chinese side, that's why i see that many Viet members despise them so much.

 

[William Hung]

Well feeling competitive it's basic human nature. Yes we do live in a tribal and harsh world, wish for stronger heart than begging for easier life.

@Yorozuya
Sorry man i haven't replying you, a week? Busy week indeed and i'll soon replying to you again.

No problem, I'm busy too.

Back then, the Hoa were obsessed with the HK/Taiwan's culture, now they are shifting to the Mainland China's culture.

It is the fact, many Hoa love China and are more clinging to their Chinese side, that's why i see that many Viet members despise them so much.

The Hoa minority is not an important minority group in VN. They have pretty much been pacified. I hardly know any Hoa in real life. They have zero political influence, they do not dominate the economy like their South East Asian peers. They are not like the Malaysian or Thai Chinese tycoons. They only run small to medium enterprises (SME) in VN. They are nowhere to be found in the major SOEs. Basically, they are pretty much like the Chinese in Chinatowns normally found in the west. Not an important or influential group. So you are welcome to "fund" them for whatever pro-CCP agenda you were talking about lol.

BTW, did your Hoa friend on that Chinese forum talked about an incident that happened to one Hoa guy in VN during last year's oil rig skirmish?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

No problem, I'm busy too.



The Hoa minority is not an important minority group in VN. They have pretty much been pacified. I hardly know any Hoa in real life. They have zero political influence, they do not dominate the economy like their South East Asian peers. They are not like the Malaysian or Thai Chinese tycoons. They only run small to medium enterprises (SME) in VN. They are nowhere to be found in the major SOEs. Basically, they are pretty much like the Chinese in Chinatowns normally found in the west. Not an important or influential group. So you are welcome to "fund" them for whatever pro-CCP agenda you were talking about lol.

BTW, did your Hoa friend on that Chinese forum talked about an incident that happened to one Hoa guy in VN during last year's oil rig skirmish?

Most Hoas have already migrated either back to China, to other places in Southeast Asia or to the US/Canada. Those that stay in Vietnam know where they came from (not Vietnam) and watch Chinese TV, drama, follow Chinese pop culture, etc. instead of Vietnamese pop culture. There are still former refugee camps, now towns, in Yunnan and Guangxi that are all Hoa from Vietnam.

 

[William Hung]

Most Hoas have already migrated either back to China, to other places in Southeast Asia or to the US/Canada. Those that stay in Vietnam know where they came from (not Vietnam) and watch Chinese TV, drama, follow Chinese pop culture, etc. instead of Vietnamese pop culture. There are still former refugee camps, now towns, in Yunnan and Guangxi that are all Hoa from Vietnam.

Yea the rich and influential Hoa already fled Viet Nam right after the war, or during the war. The ones that are left right now are just the average small to medium business owner, and some of them are poor. Pretty much like the Chinatown Chinese in the west. There is still a Chinatown in the south and it is pretty much a low class area with small businesses and stores just like the typical Chinatown in the west. They are not a very influential group like the ones in Thailand, just your average joe.

 

[Brainsucker]

Firstly, what Vietnamese members (notice the plural) here would want to change the govt with foreign help? I didnt remember seeing any.

Secondly, it is the Viet govt that is welcoming the US. So are you saying that the Viet govt is inviting the US into VN to topple themselves? What kind of logic is that? lol

Trolling or not, you should at least learn to use proper logic and critical thinking skills, otherwise the joke is on you. LOL

Becoming English teacher aren't you? Pointing typo and using it as devil advocate to pointing it at me. But it doesn't matter about plural or not. As long as it pointed to our Vietnamese member(s) here, it's good.

Secondly, yes, it is the Viet Govt who welcoming the US. But only in a bilateral ties. The problem is, Did I mentioned Viet Govt in my post that you quote? I'm confuse with your so called logic in here. You laugh with something that non existence. Are you dreaming? Or are you wrongfully read my post that you quote? It's okay, we are not English native speaker. So It's okay. You can laugh, as laugh is healthy. But... if you are an English Native Speaker, then... well..., that's.... You're not an English Native Speaker are you?

Trolling or not, I don't think that you use proper logic and critical thinking skills too. But it's okay. The joke is on us. LOL

 

[NiceGuy]

If you really wish for 1.3bln people go to sleep everynight grinding their teeth and thinking about how to murder this small neighbor，then be my guest，let me remind you there are far more dangerous and capable people in China than you and even the westerners may think . The "sincere suggestion" would be to hand over the Spratly and at the same time，name a good price for it，while you sill can.

I know for a fact that 1) everything has a price ；2）vietnamese people can be realistic if they want to. So think twice before dismiss what I said as“ chinese bully”，cause that‘s as sincere as I can be

Bottom line: nobody wants a war

Do 1.3bln people grind their teeth when Myanmar keep killing-bombing-shelling to CN's soil day by day ???

 

[William Hung]

Becoming English teacher aren't you? Pointing typo and using it as devil advocate to pointing it at me. But it doesn't matter about plural or not. As long as it pointed to our Vietnamese member(s) here, it's good.

Sigh.... you don't really understand the idea of critical thinking and proper arguments do you? In your previous post, you said "I just laugh to read that some of Vietnamese members here want to change their own government with the help of foreign power." So I asked you which Vietnamese members here have asked a foreign power to change their own government? I mentioned how you wrote it in the plural, so that means you have to show at least two members who have said that. If you can't, it means that you are laughing at something that is, as you said, "non-existent." Now do you know how proper arguments work? But instead, you went on some irrelevant rant on teaching English, native English speaker nonsense.

Secondly, yes, it is the Viet Govt who welcoming the US. But only in a bilateral ties. The problem is, Did I mentioned Viet Govt in my post that you quote? I'm confuse with your so called logic in here. You laugh with something that non existence. Are you dreaming? Or are you wrongfully read my post that you quote? It's okay, we are not English native speaker. So It's okay. You can laugh, as laugh is healthy. But... if you are an English Native Speaker, then... well..., that's.... You're not an English Native Speaker are you?

You really lack logical reasoning abilities. If the Viet govt was the one that is opening up and welcoming the US, not some malicious third party, and you still tried to insinuate that the US is invited to come to Viet Nam to topple the Viet Govt, then what does that logically imply? That the Viet govt itself is inviting the US to topple the Viet govt? does that even make any sense? Remember Viet Nam is not a multiparty system where various parties can welcome in any foreign power. The US can only be welcomed in if the Viet govt (VCP) do so. So tell me, who is welcoming the US to help topple the Viet govt? The VCP? silly logic isn't it? But I'm afraid you might still not comprehend these simple reasoning steps.

Trolling or not, I don't think that you use proper logic and critical thinking skills too. But it's okay. The joke is on us. LOL

Yes, the joke is on you. But I'll say "you" in the singular, meaning I'm pointing at you only. Don't try to pull other people in with the "us".

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

The typical historical relationship between VN and china has been one where China usually controls, occupies Vietnam, etc.

Yes, it takes 2 to tango and it should not be one giving everything to the other, why VN has to give up the islands? Why not china, or why not a split?[/QUOT]
How is China dominating Vietnam today ? Vietnam holds a larger portion of the Spratly Islands than China and they are building all sorts of facilities on it. Those are islands that are claimed by China, Taiwan and some even by the Philippines. No one is crying about that. So in a way the split your talking about is already a reality.

How is China dominating Vietnam today ? Vietnam holds a larger portion of the Spratly Islands than China and they are building all sorts of facilities on it. Those are islands that are claimed by China, Taiwan and some even by the Philippines. No one is crying about that. So in a way the split your talking about is already a reality.

 

[Carlosa]

How is China dominating Vietnam today ? Vietnam holds a larger portion of the Spratly Islands than China and they are building all sorts of facilities on it. Those are islands that are claimed by China, Taiwan and some even by the Philippines. No one is crying about that. So in a way the split your talking about is already a reality.

I said "the traditional historical relationship" is like that.

 

[LittleFish]

VCP cannot be down, that's the principle problem. If VCP cannot control the situation, then dont expect that we will just stand by. We cannot afford that another true US puppet come into existence just beside us. Vietnam will be split up just like the two koreas, and the whole SEA will be unstable. But dont worry, Russia wont let his ally abandon him, VCP at least has two big bros like before.