Rapping for freedom and the end of communism in Vietnam

[Viet]

I have to say, this is not a bad thread to read in a very boring day where there is nothing useful to do. On the other hand, Its a good opportunity to see the sadistic expressions of the human mind.

Its funny to see a whole bunch of chinese / indonesian members talking about the internal situation of Vietnam with such strong views even that they have never even been there, but they still pretend to know it better than the vietnamese themselves.

As a foreigner living in Vietnam, I feel I have a decent feel for what's going on here and I can say that there is not even a 1% chance of civil war in Vietnam or the country separating again. The Viets have been there already, they have no interest in doing it again. They have their differences with the government. but they are Viets first, they are not going to bring the house down. The overseas vietnamese have zero political influence in the country and have no capability to change anything. Only the old guard of the overseas vietnamese have an score to settle. The new generation is open minded and do not harbor such feelings.

Furthermore, these chinese / indonesian members don't have a clue about how good the security machine of Vietnam works, Its second to none, the government have a very strong handle of the situation, they know what's going on and who is doing what. They don't miss anything. Its very difficult to go against that.

Also, the government does not trust USA, Its an alliance of convenience, they are very mindful of how USA operates and they know very well how the mechanism of color revolutions work. Zero chance of color revolution happening in Vietnam, PERIOD.

To those chinese / indonesian members that never miss a chance to jump in and express their hate, that desire a civil war or a flood of refugee boats, go ahead, keep daydreaming, I guess you have nothing better to do in your useless life. Cheers.

yes, these clowns from china and indo are clueless. they don´t know nor understand the game we play.

 

[William Hung]

useless life?

cheers?

so you have fallen low too

Hehe you're the one who've fallen low with your petty insults and squabble.

The thing with Chinese members like @Baidu2020 trolling on people here is that they do it deliberately just for the LOL, often saying outlandish things just to get a reaction from people and have a laugh. At the end of the day, it is just a fun past time trolling game on PDF for them, although they won't admit it. And for us Viets, we can laugh at it too, or some with play back but just for the laugh, not with malice intention.

But for you, you take things here so seriously and end up going low attacking people with malice intention. It's clear that the trolling on PDF is affecting you psychologically and your erratic and unstable behaviour is driven by intense hate.

I think it's better for you to take some time out from PDF to cool down a bit as the trolling here is too much for you. PDF is not healthy for sensitive people man.

 

[William Hung]

True talk, dont rally mind some Chinese members on here, they are fantasizing about seeing a 'colour revolution' in Vietnam(more like the country fall in chaos) because Vietnam doesnt toe china's line per se. Eevn though some of them here try to frame it as if they are worried for Vietnam's sake. LMAO.... Anybody with brain can see through their game though.loool

Yes its the VCP who is inviting the U.S to get involve in Vietnam,, not some third party secret foreign group or whatever they might ike us to think. Eventhough the VCP is seeking a rapproachment with the U.S(which i think is a good thing for Vietnam, in fact Vietnam should have done this longggg ago) its still the best China could ask for, since the VCP is still a lesser evil compared to if Vietnam was actually a democracy(the people resent China alot)/ruled by another party. So no matter what happens China still prefers to have a VCP in power than the alternative to be honest. They know any other altrnative will be even more worse for them. Reason they are reacting the way they are, as if they ever cared for Vietnams wellbeing/prosperity.


Huh...let me get this staright, You as a Russian are with the Chinese or with your long loyal servant Vietnam? Because Russia's role has been significant, even though it has so far successfully avoided getting involved with the Ch-VN dispute. Remember you are both their ideological BIG DADDY/GODFATHER afterall.

Some like @BuddhaPalm are talking about colour revolution just to take the mickey out of the Viet members. But some like @Brainsucker and @madfc seem to genuinely believe it which I find odd, since the logic just doesn't add up.

Vietnam War II, Vietnamese Exiles I meet are pretty nasty even worse than the Cuban exiles, they wouldn't hesitate to help overthrow the current government even by arms.

20 years ago this could be true. But too bad the US military has just banned the flag of the Vietnamese exiles from all US military bases. That speaks alot and indicates a new US-VN dynamic. The Viet exiles was recently shocked to find out about this ban.

Vietnamese move commemoration after flag barred from Marine base - San Jose Mercury News

Some like @BuddhaPalm are talking about colour revolution just to take the mickey out of the Viet members. But some like @Brainsucker and @madfc seem to genuinely believe it I find odd, since the logic just doesn't add up.



20 years ago this could be true. But too bad the US military has just banned the flag of the Vietnamese exiles from all US military bases. That speaks alot and indicates a new US-VN dynamic. The Viet exiles was recently shocked to find out about this ban.

Vietnamese move commemoration after flag barred from Marine base - San Jose Mercury News

Oh @Carlosa man don't say that lol. She's just sensitive and needs some time out that's all. The handful of Indonesians I've met in real life are really nice and polite, much friendlier than the average Vietnamese actually. Most of the Indonesian members here are cool too, like you said. I have no hard feeling against her. I just had to speak up against the slavery issue because it is a issue close to my heart and I once knew someone from uni that did a big research project on asia-pac human trafficking so I knew something about it even before the Indonesian crank down.

 

[gambit]

The overseas vietnamese have zero political influence in the country and have no capability to change anything.

We may not have OVERT political influence, but that is because the government is already dictatorial when it comes to competing political parties. But what we have is COVERT social and cultural influence and that is much harder to measure and oppose. Currently, it is estimated that over half of the Vietnamese are borned after the war and as such, they have no emotional ties to that conflict. Still, there is an ideological conflict, if not a military one, they are experiencing.

 

[Carlosa]

We may not have OVERT political influence, but that is because the government is already dictatorial when it comes to competing political parties. But what we have is COVERT social and cultural influence and that is much harder to measure and oppose. Currently, it is estimated that over half of the Vietnamese are borned after the war and as such, they have no emotional ties to that conflict. Still, there is an ideological conflict, if not a military one, they are experiencing.

That is true, plenty of social and cultural influence. The truth is, Vietnamese are quite crazy about America, anything about America is great for them, its their mecca, women dream with catching an American husband (particularly an overseas Viet from USA), etc, etc. USA Its their model and that happens naturally without any need for anybody to influence that.

As I said before in other threads, the majority of Vietnamese do not believe or trust their government, they see the consequences of their corruption and mismanagement everyday, but they are not going to engage in civil war and bring the house down either. I guess at some point, the regime will evolve into something more in tune with the needs of the people particularly when the old guard of the CPV checks out, but whatever it is, I don't think it will be brought about by external actors.

Can I ask you, out of curiosity, when was the last time that you have been to Vietnam?

Oh @Carlosa man don't say that lol. She's just sensitive and needs some time out that's all. The handful of Indonesians I've met in real life are really nice and polite, much friendlier than the average Vietnamese actually. Most of the Indonesian members here are cool too, like you said. I have no hard feeling against her. I just had to speak up against the slavery issue because it is a issue close to my heart and I once knew someone from uni that did a big research project on asia-pac human trafficking so I knew something about it even before the Indonesian crank down.

Ok, I deleted that, just for you, but it has to be something that causes such behavior, its not normal. Hey, I didn't say anything about other Indonesians, I also have no problems with them.

 

[gambit]

That is true, plenty of social and cultural influence. The truth is, Vietnamese are quite crazy about America, anything about America is great for them, its their mecca, women dream with catching an American husband (particularly an overseas Viet from USA), etc, etc. USA Its their model and that happens naturally without any need for anybody to influence that.

I do know about that...If I am not already in a relationship, I would either married to a Viet girl or very busy travelling back and forth.

As I said before in other threads, the majority of Vietnamese do not believe or trust their government, they see the consequences of their corruption and mismanagement everyday, but they are not going to engage in civil war and bring the house down either. I guess at some point, the regime will evolve into something more in tune with the needs of the people particularly when the old guard of the CPV checks out, but whatever it is, I don't think it will be brought about by external actors.

I guess it is better a leaky roof than no roof.

Can I ask you, out of curiosity, when was the last time that you have been to Vietnam?

In '06, when Intel announced new investments in the country.

 

[William Hung]

The truth is, Vietnamese are quite crazy about America, anything about America is great for them, its their mecca, women dream with catching an American husband (particularly an overseas Viet from USA), etc, etc. USA Its their model and that happens naturally without any need for anybody to influence that.

This is because of the inferiority complex which is also commonly found in the rest of Asia. Did you check out the reference I quoted in the China's politics thread created by lux? Some Chinese academics talked about this self-esteem problem with a surveying showing only 26% Chinese preferring their development model while more prefers the US model. I bet a Vietnamese survey would have similar result due to the inferiority complex.

 

[Carlosa]

In '06, when Intel announced new investments in the country.

I was asking because things have changed a lot in Vietnam in the last few years, in some places more than others and even that life is hard for many, there are also many that prosper really nicely (something that is not properly reflected in the economic stats because there is a very large cash based economy). At least where I live in Danang, I see that most people are actually quite content and the feeling that I get is that even that they don't like some things, there is no desire to act on it, no interest in rocking the boat. The only issue I see where I could see people revolting would actually be related to China if they feel that the government is not defending the interest of the country. Just my 2 cents.

And yes, a leaky roof is always better than no roof, but the leaks are slowly being fixed for many.

This is because of the inferiority complex which is also commonly found in the rest of Asia. Did you check out the reference I quoted in the China's politics thread created by lux? Some Chinese academics talked about this self-esteem problem with a surveying showing only 26% Chinese preferring their development model while more prefers the US model. I bet a Vietnamese survey would have similar result due to the inferiority complex.

It could be that way, but in Vietnam its far more intense than in other Asian countries for some reason.

What you said about the chinese is right. The way the chinese in PDF talk is the opposite of what I hear when I talk to people in China.

I do know about that...If I am not already in a relationship, I would either married to a Viet girl or very busy travelling back and forth.
.

Viet girls are great, aren't they? There is a little bit of everything of course, but the good ones are so unusually good that its very difficult to find parallels to that in other countries, particularly western countries.

We may not have OVERT political influence, but that is because the government is already dictatorial when it comes to competing political parties. But what we have is COVERT social and cultural influence and that is much harder to measure and oppose. Currently, it is estimated that over half of the Vietnamese are borned after the war and as such, they have no emotional ties to that conflict. Still, there is an ideological conflict, if not a military one, they are experiencing.

The truth is, North Vietnam won the war, but in the end, looking at how things are now, the winner resembles the former loser. Vietnam today, except for the political system has just about become something very similar to the former South Vietnam and every year is more and more like that. So in a way, we could say that the loser did actually win in many ways.

 

[William Hung]

It could be that way, but in Vietnam its far more intense than in other Asian countries for some reason.

What you said about the chinese is right. The way the chinese in PDF talk is the opposite of what I hear when I talk to people in China.

Oh really?? So in your experience, VN has more inferiority complex than in Thailand??

Man I hate the inferiority complex that most Vietnamese teenagers have these days. Like that ugly guy name Ryo York who has an ugly voice, but VN seem to worship him just because he is American and can sing in Vietnamese. not to mention the K-pop worship.

We need to bring back the re-education camp.

 

[Carlosa]

Oh really?? So in your experience, VN has more inferiority complex than in Thailand??

Man I hate the inferiority complex that most Vietnamese teenagers have these days. Like that ugly guy name Ryo York who has an ugly voice, but VN seem to worship him just because he is American and can sing in Vietnamese. not to mention the K-pop worship.

We need to bring back the re-education camp.

No, I didn't mean inferiority complex, what I meant is that they like USA and anything from USA in a way that is much more intense than in other countries. The reasons for that, I'm not sure.

Oh really?? So in your experience, VN has more inferiority complex than in Thailand??

Man I hate the inferiority complex that most Vietnamese teenagers have these days. Like that ugly guy name Ryo York who has an ugly voice, but VN seem to worship him just because he is American and can sing in Vietnamese. not to mention the K-pop worship.

We need to bring back the re-education camp.

I don't think your theory applies to all Asian countries even if its correct for china.
Thais don't have an inferiority complex, its the other way around, they think they are the best thing that ever happened on Earth and they look down on just about everybody else in the region.

 

[gambit]

I was asking because things have changed a lot in Vietnam in the last few years, in some places more than others and even that life is hard for many, there are also many that prosper really nicely (something that is not properly reflected in the economic stats because there is a very large cash based economy). At least where I live in Danang, I see that most people are actually quite content and the feeling that I get is that even that they don't like some things, there is no desire to act on it, no interest in rocking the boat. The only issue I see where I could see people revolting would actually be related to China if they feel that the government is not defending the interest of the country. Just my 2 cents.

And yes, a leaky roof is always better than no roof, but the leaks are slowly being fixed for many.

That is because even ordinary Viets know at this time, there is no use for an overt ideological conflict. On the other hand, everyone know that while there is no official approval for the American concept of the freedom of speech, an example of a component of an ideological bent, given how information flow regardless of borders, covert ideological conflicts are inevitable. Today's ideological conflicts are not of the Cold War era, of which I lived thru, where even friends and families are afraid of discussing their ambivalence behind closed doors, but are discussed openly in the streets. The government know this is happening but as long as the discontent are not organized and remain low intensity, it is tolerated. The government even know that while no one is rocking the boat, plenty are not rowing in sync.

It could be that way, but in Vietnam its far more intense than in other Asian countries for some reason.

It is more intense because of the history between the countries and of Viets like me.

What you said about the chinese is right. The way the chinese in PDF talk is the opposite of what I hear when I talk to people in China.

Yeah...I got that from a lot of Chinese engineers who I work with and who watches this forum. They are embarrassed for their country because of these 'PDF Chinese'.

 

[William Hung]

No, I didn't mean inferiority complex, what I meant is that they like USA and anything from USA in a way that is much more intense than in other countries. The reasons for that, I'm not sure.



I don't think your theory applies to all Asian countries even if its correct for china.
Thais don't have an inferiority complex, its the other way around, they think they are the best thing that ever happened on Earth and they look down on just about everybody else in the region.

Oh I see. Well the inferiority complex I talked about is real in VietNam, it's mostly found in the youths. These kind of inferiority complex also exist in China, Korea, Japan. I'm surprised it's not found in Thailand.

 

[Carlosa]

That is because even ordinary Viets know at this time, there is no use for an overt ideological conflict. On the other hand, everyone know that while there is no official approval for the American concept of the freedom of speech, an example of a component of an ideological bent, given how information flow regardless of borders, covert ideological conflicts are inevitable. Today's ideological conflicts are not of the Cold War era, of which I lived thru, where even friends and families are afraid of discussing their ambivalence behind closed doors, but are discussed openly in the streets. The government know this is happening but as long as the discontent are not organized and remain low intensity, it is tolerated. The government even know that while no one is rocking the boat, plenty are not rowing in sync..

Yes, I agree, there is some sort of equilibrium, a balance that has been achieved between the 2 sides where neither sides pushes too far so that the boat stays afloat. Change will eventually come in a more natural way.

Oh I see. Well the inferiority complex I talked about is real in VietNam, it's mostly found in the youths. These kind of inferiority complex also exist in China, Korea, Japan. I'm surprised it's not found in Thailand.

Thailand is a very special case, they are really something else, they are very much into their culture and believe that "Thainess" is indeed superior to any outside culture. Actually, the way society works there, there is a big deal of brainwashing going on since school starts that has a lot to do with that.

 

[William Hung]

Yes, I agree, there is some sort of equilibrium, a balance that has been achieved between the 2 sides where neither sides pushes too far so that the boat stays afloat. Change will eventually come in a more natural way.



Thailand is a very special case, they are really something else, they are very much into their culture and believe that "Thainess" is indeed superior to any outside culture. Actually, the way society works there, there is a big deal of brainwashing going on since school starts that has a lot to do with that.

I've visited Thailand briefly before and yes I did noticed that they are extremely patriotic, Thai flags and King portraits everywhere. Vietnamese don't mind making fun of our own country from time to time, something which I never see coming from the Thais. But I thought they still have an inferiority complex because of places like pattaya, etc. lol

 

[Carlosa]

It is more intense because of the history between the countries and of Viets like me

I think you are probably right, particularly in the south.
It seems like everybody seem to have a Viet Kiu relative or at least know Viets in USA or that moved to USA and that makes a big difference.

I've visited Thailand briefly before and yes I did noticed that they are extremely patriotic, Thai flags and King portraits everywhere. Vietnamese don't mind making fun of our own country from time to time, something which I never see coming from the Thais. But I thought they still have an inferiority complex because of places like pattaya, etc. lol

The way they worship the king is a result of that brainwashing that starts since the first school day and its quite intense. Its the same brainwashing about the superiority of Thai culture.

No, Pattaya is not about inferiority complex, Pattaya is about money and about milking foreigners, something that the Thais are very good at doing.

The girls in Pattaya come mainly from the northeast and they are often sent by their families, they way they tell them is: "Go to Pattaya to make money from foreigners and help the family". They actually see those foreigners as quite stupid (and many really are) and their approach is that they are actually using them, so it has no relation to inferiority complex. The foreigners think that they are using the girls, but its actually the other way around.

Oh I see. Well the inferiority complex I talked about is real in VietNam, it's mostly found in the youths. These kind of inferiority complex also exist in China, Korea, Japan. I'm surprised it's not found in Thailand.

I think it has a lot to do with the influence of American culture such as movies and Television and the fact that US its the big world power and most of those countries were former European colonies and had to rebuild themselves from scratch.