Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars

[Yogijaat]

These are very narrow regional interpretations; the Ahirs and Yadavs have better credentials (in western India only) as cowherds. Everyone is a farmer, not particularly the Jat. And the Rajput is born to battle, with or without the money; 'mercenary' has strong connections. Jats from the Sindh is quite possible; remember where the Sakas ruled? Rajputs talk about Mount Abu because the archetypical fire sacrifice took place there. Gujjars coming in much earlier is merely a memory of the phased, pulse nature of the incursions of this period.

In areas i live, gujjars and ahirs are known to be related, also gujjars are slanged as milkman.

Agree on Rajputs, mount abu is where i think agnivansha started.

A mere look on the population centre of these group can tell their migration order. Yadavas are concentrated in eastern up, gujjars are spread all over the place western up, kashmir, gujarat, rajasthan. Jats in punjab, haryana rajasthan and western up.

As pointed out by Col. James Todd (the British Surveyor General of Rajasthan), the Sanskrit inscriptions (since sixth century AD) on ancient palaces, temples, forts etc. tell us that those buildings had been built by the Gujjars and not by the Rajputs (several supposedly 'Rajput' kings of medieval India were ethnic Gujjars in fact). Similarly,while the association of the Gujjars with the Mount Abu is noticed in many inscriptions and epigraphs, the association of Rajputs with Mount Abu is mostly 'legendary'. I believe archaeological studies and sources give a more accurate account of the past than literary or legendary history.

Mount abu is the place where the word rajput originated and brahmins gave them kshatriya status.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

We don't follow the caste system but I know many that still do here in the UK. Had a lovely conversation with my grandad once...we are ghakkar Rajput, there were 4 brothers from Iran and real Rajput are from their progeny.

Nice to hear that brother.

I am sick of this myth perpetuated by the Indian government of so-called heroic resistance of Rajputs against Muslim invaders.

This makes the Hindus live in their dream world and unable to accept our noble lineage.

Literally, their motherboard will malfunction if they hear Rajput and Muslim in the same sentence.

The reality is that the Rajputs were thoroughly Islamized, mostly during Mughal times as the Mughals preferred the Rajputs due to their loyalty and chivalry.

Islamization of the Rajput clans of Punjab was finally completed under Sultan Aurangzeb, who was the most popular leader for us as he brought many of us into the fold of Islam due to his generousity and pious traits.

Pakistan is filled with Rajputs from very important historical families, and although we don’t harp on it because of Islam, we don’t reject our ancestors’ history either.

Even Nehru talked about the pride and nobility of Muslim Rajputs many times.

 

[Hamza913]

I am Jatt.
So what?
Is it good, is it bad; it matters not.

People need to get over their identity complexes.

I don't understand this pride sense of shame/pride that some people have about what their ancestors where/weren't. What difference does it made if they worshipped, fire or elephants or some other pagan diety?

If your worried about your "muslimness" focus on your aqeeda not your caste.

If your worried aobut your "Pakistaniyat" focus on civic duty, not re-writing history.

What is a nation? Basically lines in the dirt which define what resources you have access too. Your focus should be on best utilising those resources for the benefits of the people who are within those lines. That is a matter to be proud of, not ancestory. What your ancestor did/did not do was his or her own deed and the merit of it ends with them.

For the umpteenth time, I'm not attacking Gujjars, Jats or Rajputs. Stop getting all defensive.

I am simply bringing up the point that these groups do not denote a common ancestry, clans do. So I was wondering whether or not you guys would prefer being identified as Gujjar, Jat or Rajput, or with your particular clan.

I honestly can't believe how many people on here clearly didn't read my opening post properly, or are just unable to understand it. Not only that, but the number of triggered idiots is quite astounding.

In BC era, Gujjars have remained one of the most vibrant identities of Central Asia. They later migrated to Northern India (Gujarat and Rajasthan) and it was there they developed their unique identity and culture, and established several Kingdoms (from the fifth century onward). Later on, due to multiple reasons, they moved out of the plains towards Himalayas and Punjab/KP (from the tenth century onward). While moving in towards the Indian subcontinent and then moving 'out' of Northern and Central India to Himalayas, the Gujjars went on giving names to their settlements.

Stop copy and pasting nonsense from other places. The word Gujjar did not exist in BC times, and the migration routes are not entirely known.

No Gujjar who knows his history will ever try to dissociate himself from his ethnic roots. The OP is a known racist,

I never tried to dissociate myself from my roots lol, if anything I'm closer to them than you since you seem to think you're Ranjit Singhs long lost lover, even though a Gujjar from Kashmir beat his army 3 times in battle (Ruhullah Khan). So much for being "proud".

Jat is synonym for farmers, gujjar for cow keepers and rajput for mercenary.

That's not correct, you have plenty of clans shared among all three who were also rulers/fighters (e.g Chauhans and Tomars).

None of them originally from Punjab.

Some of the clans are, but obviously not the community as a whole.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Mount abu is the place where the word rajput originated and brahmins gave them kshatriya status.

The Gurjar is a great race of the world. Gurjars had been ruling India since historical times; their some families were called Rajputs in medieval period. Rajput, Maratha, Jat and Ahir are heirs of the Kshatriyas. They are not foreigners. There is no community being called Kshatriya except us all. How that Kshatriyan race can be eliminated in which Ram and Krishna were born.

All of us Rajput, Maratha, Jat and Ahirs are the stars whereas Gurjar is the Moon in the Kshatriyan sky. It is beyond human power to lessen the dignity of the Gurjars.

(Words By - Thakur Yashpal Singh Rajput, Ex-MP)

 

[Yogijaat]

For the umpteenth time, I'm not attacking Gujjars, Jats or Rajputs. Stop getting all defensive.

I am simply bringing up the point that these groups do not denote a common ancestry, clans do. So I was wondering whether or not you guys would prefer being identified as Gujjar, Jat or Rajput, or with your particular clan.

I honestly can't believe how many people on here clearly didn't read my opening post properly, or are just unable to understand it. Not only that, but the number of triggered idiots is quite astounding.



Stop copy and pasting nonsense from other places. The word Gujjar did not exist in BC times, and the migration routes are not entirely known.



I never tried to dissociate myself from my roots lol, if anything I'm closer to them than you since you seem to think you're Ranjit Singhs long lost lover, even though a Gujjar from Kashmir beat his army 3 times in battle (Ruhullah Khan). So much for being "proud".



That's not correct, you have plenty of clans shared among all three who were also rulers/fighters (e.g Chauhans and Tomars).



Some of the clans are, but obviously not the community as a whole.

I am not disputing that clans are not shared, the point i am making that the clans assimilated into one of these profession and later called themselves gujjar, rajput and jats.
First came the caste(gujjar, rajput, jats) than clans(gotras) assimilated into one of these castes.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Stop copy and pasting nonsense from other places. The word Gujjar did not exist in BC times, and the migration routes are not entirely known.

Afghani Clown, take a break from trolling and try to spend some time reading what scholars like V.A Smith, General Cunnigham, D.R. Bhandarkar, Javed Rahi etc have written about the history of Gujjars

 

[Hamza913]

Afghani Clown, take a break from trolling and try to spend some time reading what scholars like V.A Smith, General Cunnigham, D.R. Bhandarkar, Javed Rahi etc have written about the history of Gujjars

if you knew a single thing about history you wouldn't be making an idol out of Ranjit Singh, or acting as if Baras are not a clan among Gujjars.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

And who are you? And why should I believe in what an anonymous/incognito poster on internet has to say about another anonymous/incognito person? .. not even sure if you two are different persons in real life...

No Gujjar who knows his history will ever try to dissociate himself from his ethnic roots. The OP is a known racist, a multiple id troll.

I’ve known brother @Taimur Khurram since I came to PDF. I think his previous ID was drs/dsr something. He is originally from East Punjab, like me.

@PakSarzameen5823 is someone completely different.

 

[Hamza913]

I think his previous ID was drs/dsr something.

Yes that's probably worth mentioning. I changed my name @M. Sarmad

Look, if I was an anti-Punjabi Afghan, why would I have made a thread named the history of Punjabis?

He is originally from East Punjab, like me.

Do you mean Indian Punjab or east as in eastern Pak Punjab (I have family from both anyway so it doesn't really matter)?

 

[Pakistani E]

Guys, I am enjoying the thread so far. Can we please steer clear from personal attacks?

I don't want this thread to get derailed in to a slinging match or shut down.

Respectfully @M. Sarmad @Taimur Khurram

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Do you mean Indian Punjab or east as in eastern Pak Punjab (I have family from both anyway so it doesn't really matter)?

East Punjab (now occupied by India,) where my family lived before partition. Specifically the border region with Kashmir. We are from the same place.

We had to leave everything behind, but Alhamdulilah made off much better than many others as our family wasn’t torn to pieces by Hindu/Sikh mobs.

 

[Pakistani E]

STFU Afghani MonkeyDLuffy...
And how many times have I told you not to quote me??
kaunsi zuban samajhtay hain ap?

Bro I think you're getting confused. @Taimur Khurram previous name was dsr or drs something. He used to live in Qatar, and honestly I had a lot of arguments with him before. We have differences on many topics, especially around religion. But he's not that Afghan Punjabi hater you're referring to.

Let's leave personal insults out of this and concentrate on the discussion.

 

[Pakistani E]

A multiple id troll nonetheless.
And what discussion, bro?
Such idiots are absolutely clueless
and he has already ruined the thread.

Koi gal nai. I honestly don't know anything about this topic, so seeing people bounce off ideas and their knowledge is good. We all will learn in the process. No harm in it I think.

@M. Sarmad

And yes I did read the OP and I don't agree with it. But I have a mind completely different to most other posters. I consider all groups living within the Indus Valley coming under an umbrella of "Pakistani" culture group. I don't want people to forget their origins or identity. Just, that they remember that we are only free as a people because we accept the ideals of Pakistan and consider our insular identities, as nothing more than an extension of being a Pakistani.

 

[Hamza913]

East Punjab (now occupied by India,) where we lived before partition. Specifically the border region with Kashmir. We are from the same place.

We had to leave everything behind, but Alhamdulilah made off much better than many others as our family wasn’t torn to pieces by Hindu/Sikh mobs.

Yeah my mother's side came from Hoshiarpur. Most of them made it out alive, but one relative got stabbed during partition.

 

[Hamza913]

A multiple id troll nonetheless.

I've only ever had one ID, I only changed my name.

Did you read the OP?

Did you?

I've been perfectly amicable with you until you decided to start muttering nonsense. I'm willing to extend the hand of reconciliation once again, it's up to you whether you take it or leave it.

believing that the history of Pakistan starts with Bin Qasim

Because it does. Pakistan was made for the Muslims of what was then British India. Our nation owes it's very existence to individuals like Muhammad Bin Qasim, the first Muslim to take control of large portions of the region.

for them every thing is related to Islam

It's the only identity that really matters in the end.

Being proud of your nationality makes no sense since it's literally taking pride over being born on a different piece of dirt.

And being proud of your ethnicity/tribe/race is also stupid since all of humanity has a common origin.

Feeling close to one's tribe/race/ethnicity/nationality is one thing, being proud of it is another.

all historical references are null and void for them

I've never said anything about history that wasn't based on facts. You're welcome to try and disprove what I said but I doubt you'll be able to.