Raiwind killed terrorist refused burial by residents of Okara, Pakpattan

[That Guy]

Lol, I am a dog person, German Shepherds or Doberman to be precise. No kitten's for me. Also, the above is where have an issue with your statement. When military training is given on rules, the soldiers adhere to it as otherwise, the broken rules could turn into court marshal. So your statement that the rules aren't adhered to, isn't right. Second, out of a military spanning multiple million people and different races, etc, 1% incidents are to be expected. You, like the rest of the Pakistani posters on here, are looking for 100% satisfaction rate, that doesn't exist as humans make mistakes. The key factor that I feel like is ignored the most in the Pakistani society, its all or nothing about any topic.

Uh no, you're making vast generalization. I'm going to address the most insulting thing about your comment first.

You, like the rest of the Pakistani posters on here, are looking for 100% satisfaction rate, that doesn't exist as humans make mistakes.

Really? Are you kidding me? Not only is this completely wrong and insulting, it's also completely irrelevant to reality as it is presented before us.

Now that this has been addressed, I'll move on.

A rule that gets broken doesn't automatically equal court marshal, that's misinformation, and you should know better than to post something that is clearly false.

I didn't say that rules aren't adhered to, I said they're hardly adhered to, there is a difference. Rules are usually followed to the letter when being observed, but most individual soldiers on the ground don't care about these little things, and that is exactly what these rules are to them, little things.

I'd also like to address your "million man, 1%" point, there aren't a million US soldiers deployed over seas in Muslim countries, so such a statement needs to be adjusted. Let's take Afghanistan, as it's the best example, at the peak of US deployment (the Afghan war surge) the numbers were a little over 100,000 deployed, so the number needs to be adjusted accordingly, considering the issue at hand, namely the Quran controversy that you brought up for some reason.

Now, next is your claim of 1%, while I can't prove it's over that, you can't prove that it's 1% or less either, but let's take your 1%, shall we? 1% of a million is 10,000, are you saying that there are 10,000 soldiers that just don't follow the rules? That's a pretty bad number, but I'll be fair here and use the new 100,000 number, that still 100 soldiers, again, this is a high number. Anyways, your assertions are baseless.

Next and finally

The key factor that I feel like is ignored the most in the Pakistani society, its all or nothing about any topic.

Yeah, from what I've seen, it's pretty much you that's using this all or nothing mentality. From your comments here, the US military is completely disciplined, and those that don't follow US military regulations are few and isolated. (I was going to use a controversial example, but I suspect that would just increase the arguing).

 

[Viper0011.]

Really? Are you kidding me? Not only is this completely wrong and insulting, it's also completely irrelevant to reality as it is presented before us.

A rule that gets broken doesn't automatically equal court marshal, that's misinformation, and you should know better than to post something that is clearly false.

I am sorry if you felt like I insulted you. That wasn't my intention but looking at your post, you and many others sound similar, if something isn't to your 100 satisfaction, its a failure. Here, people talk about bringing down the Pakistani government because of their personal believes on others marginal powers and because the elected officials haven't delivered......when they've been in power in Pakistan for like two years?? So that's the level of maturity I see around here. Moving on to the topic:
When a rule gets broken, it doesn't necessarily result in the CM. I agree with that. However, what RULE are we talking about? A procedure as sensitive as handling Quran? Knowing the US military works with its Muslim allies and is in the war zones with their militaries, this RULE is a LOT more sensitive than any ordinary rule or procedure. One mistake and this becomes a public issue across the globe and not to mention the relationships it strains with multiple countries due to once incident......you've seen all of it many times. So this isn't an ordinary rule, this is a rule that otherwise could result in not only bad press for the US military, it also causes violent protests and unrest across the globe in many muslim countries and a few deaths too. Not something that a world class military wants to have. Thus, there is a LOT of focus on handling Quran the right way and with the exception of one or two incidents over the past 14 years since Iraq, there is not other incidents. Speaks volume for such a large military and how sensitive this issue is.

 

[That Guy]

I am sorry if you felt like I insulted you. That wasn't my intention but looking at your post, you and many others sound similar, if something isn't to your 100 satisfaction, its a failure. Here, people talk about bringing down the Pakistani government because of their personal believes on others marginal powers and because the elected officials haven't delivered......when they've been in power in Pakistan for like two years?? So that's the level of maturity I see around here. Moving on to the topic:
When a rule gets broken, it doesn't necessarily result in the CM. I agree with that. However, what RULE are we talking about? A procedure as sensitive as handling Quran? Knowing the US military works with its Muslim allies and is in the war zones with their militaries, this RULE is a LOT more sensitive than any ordinary rule or procedure. One mistake and this becomes a public issue across the globe and not to mention the relationships it strains with multiple countries due to once incident......you've seen all of it many times. So this isn't an ordinary rule, this is a rule that otherwise could result in not only bad press for the US military, it also causes violent protests and unrest across the globe in many muslim countries and a few deaths too. Not something that a world class military wants to have. Thus, there is a LOT of focus on handling Quran the right way and with the exception of one or two incidents over the past 14 years since Iraq, there is not other incidents. Speaks volume for such a large military and how sensitive this issue is.

This is a sensitive issue, but the punishment isn't court marshal for it. Name one soldier from any of the incidents that was court marshaled because of mishandling the Quran? I'll save you the trouble, there isn't any. The most that happens is a small disciplinary action, nothing more.

As for your observations on Pakistanis on this forum, you need to observe even harder, because you're clearly wrong on this issue. A few loud and frankly obnoxious forumites don't really represent the majority of users here, and no this isn't a "no true scottsman" argument, because when you go through the forum, you'll see that every single member, regardless of their nationality, has a different opinion; Some say that military rule was better, others (like myself) say that democracy is the only way forward. I suggest you keep such observations to yourself next, as they don't have anything to do with this topic.

 

[Viper0011.]

This is a sensitive issue, but the punishment isn't court marshal for it. Name one soldier from any of the incidents that was court marshaled because of mishandling the Quran? I'll save you the trouble, there isn't any. The most that happens is a small disciplinary action, nothing more.

I suggest you keep such observations to yourself next, as they don't have anything to do with this topic.

Ok so let's take your word for it so I don't have to waste time in researching. So you are suggesting that the soldiers received "administrative punishment", you realize that means you go from operations to the desk and your career, what you wanted to be is over, right? I'd love to see anyone in Pakistan or other military's getting administrative punishment for mishandling a Bible. Just doesn't happen, does it? And here, the US military, to avoid additional further issues, spend many, many millions to start a course that teaches soldiers on how to handle sensitive religious material. The goodwill and the effort speaks for itself. You should give credit to where its deserved.

Next, I don't have to keep anything to me, you said plenty of stuff that didn't belong in many of your posts. Again, I go back to my previous comment about mentality. You guys don't consider other human beings that can have their way of doing things, its either your way or the highway. Read the last part of your post and it's pretty clear.

 

[That Guy]

Ok so let's take your word for it so I don't have to waste time in researching. So you are suggesting that the soldiers received "administrative punishment", you realize that means you go from operations to the desk and your career, what you wanted to be is over, right? I'd love to see anyone in Pakistan or other military's getting administrative punishment for mishandling a Bible. Just doesn't happen, does it? And here, the US military, to avoid additional further issues, spend many, many millions to start a course that teaches soldiers on how to handle sensitive religious material. The goodwill and the effort speaks for itself. You should give credit to where its deserved.

And here we have the what aboutism argument, one wrong doesn't make another automatically any less wrong. I'm not defending Pakistan here, PA has a lot to answer for, most recently their claim that civilians haven't died in air bombings in NWA.

Also, you're once again putting words in my mouth. Where did I say administrative punishment? There is a difference between disciplinary action and administrative punishment. Disciplinary action can range from retraining to being under strike observation, while administrative punishment usually means a demotion, changing of positions, or something that affects the soldier's record.

I have also given credit where credit is due, by repeatedly saying that the US military has high standards, which you seem to be completely ignoring.

Your arguments are becoming more and more ridiculous.

Next, I don't have to keep anything to me, you said plenty of stuff that didn't belong in many of your posts. Again, I go back to my previous comment about mentality. You guys don't consider other human beings that can have their way of doing things, its either your way or the highway. Read the last part of your post and it's pretty clear.

Are you seriously repeating the same argument which I just told you was completely false, and proceeded to explain to you why it was false?

I'm not saying it's my way or the high way, name one place where I said anything even remotely similar. It's pretty clear that it's you that has this mentality. You're having such a hard time accepting my criticism that you're completely repeating yourself. All I've suggested in the last part of my comment was that you should refrain passing judgement on things such a generalizing argument. You know for a fact that your generalization is completely flawed, yet you keep on making it. By your logic, I can say that every single US member on this forum supports, let's say, eating tacos (as an example), but that's a generalization at best, out right ignorant at worst; With your logic though, I have nothing to worry about, because I can't be wrong in my generalization.

 

[Viper0011.]

Also, you're once again putting words in my mouth. Where did I say administrative punishment?

I'm not saying it's my way or the high way, name one place where I said anything even remotely similar. It's pretty clear that it's you that has this mentality. You're having such a hard time accepting my criticism that you're completely repeating yourself. All I've suggested in the last part of my comment was that you should refrain passing judgement on things such a generalizing argument. .

There were cases of administrative punishment in these incidents that I am referring to. Not all of them, but there were cases.
Also, I don't take criticism seriously. If you go through my posts, there are many people who've heard "I am sorry" from me, including you I think. However, when you start to "instruct" someone to keep their opinion to themselves that you didn't agree with, that IS my way or the highway. Read two posts above where you asked me to keep my opinion to myself as you didn't think that was the topic. While I was correlating two incidents. What you say and how you say, clearly explain the other person's personality, simple phycology i.e.

 

[That Guy]

There were cases of administrative punishment in these incidents that I am referring to. Not all of them, but there were cases.
Also, I don't take criticism seriously. If you go through my posts, there are many people who've heard "I am sorry" from me, including you I think. However, when you start to "instruct" someone to keep their opinion to themselves that you didn't agree with, that IS my way or the highway. Read two posts above where you asked me to keep my opinion to myself as you didn't think that was the topic. While I was correlating two incidents. What you say and how you say, clearly explain the other person's personality, simple phycology i.e.

I didn't say keep your opinion to yourself, I said keep your observation to yourself. Taking my comment into context, you should know I was referring to your clearly flawed and insulting so called "observation" of Pakistani poster on the forums.

See, you say that you don't take criticism seriously. but actions speak louder than words, and your actions show that you DO take them seriously, just not in the right way, perhaps.

I'll take your word that there was administrative punishment, but my original point was that this sort of thing wouldn't equal a court marshal, which you mentioned.