Rage: The emotion an Indian experiences on a visit to China

[timetravel]

Why this stupid comparison? India is doing good. And to be precise. I would want to born in India every time if I am born a trillion times but not once in China.

China is all money but no peace of mind. India is all money but with all the freedom and peace of mind.

I would suffocate if I have to live under total control of ccp every minute of my life. I want money but no way I want to be a slave.

and to Chinese. 3 cheers for your progress. But I do not want the Chinese ccp model for India ever.

So thanks but no thanks. and the chief reason is that India is growing and doing well economically without the restrictions on life put by ccp. So when we can progress without the restrictions then why would we Indians ever want to live like Chinese?

 

[timetravel]

In fact if I were a Chinese, I would be enraged to see Indians enjoy both High Growth and Total Freedom.

Whereas all I have as a Chinese is growth but no life, no freedom, no say in my nation's policy, total censorship of external information.

Living in China is like a convict living in an enlarged prison or under house arrest.

 

[shuttler]

In fact if I were a Chinese, I would be enraged to see Indians enjoy both High Growth and Total Freedom.

Whereas all I have as a Chinese is growth but no life, no freedom, no say in my nation's policy, total censorship of external information.

Living in China is like a convict living in an enlarged prison or under house arrest.

Thank the Almighty you are not a Chinese!
Stay as an incapable delusional cheerleader for the rest of your life, pleazzzz!

 

[timetravel]

Thank the Almighty you are not a Chinese!
Stay as an incapable delusional cheerleader for the rest of your life, pleazzzz!

I already told you I dont want to live in a country like China ever. and that's as true as it can ever be.

But I do wish that China keeps growing at a good rate. I am happy if India, China both progress at good rates. Because beyond the man made national boundaries, I want to see all nations on this earth progress.

I hope India/China keeps progressing and does lots of business with India and by 2030-40 we can be top 2 economies of the world.

But same time, I don't like the restrictions on life in China. I am against it and I will criticize it every-time.

 

[Okemos]

Of course. I read up on MLK and his Idea of Social Enlightenment. "Enlightenment" can mean many things. That's easy for you to say, because you can access the internet the I can make guesses that you're probably belong to the middle-class. What about the people below you. Do they have the same access to the luxury you enjoy? India is home to 1/3 of the world poor, appalling hygiene & leader at below 5 mortality rate. China may beat you up for saying something controversial, but at least they treat their citizens better. Rather than mouthing off "Freedom & Democracy" while the vast majority remains living below the poverty line.

Actually even I, as a person living in a democracy like U.S., am tired of barrages of criticisms that Chinese citizens launch day in and day out against various levels of governments. They whine a lot!!!!!!!!!! They blame everything on the government. They imagine that the U.S. will take care of any petty personal issues in daily life! Basically to them, everything the government does is not good. There are also lots of talks about democracy and how to implement it. The difference is how and when.

I am so pissed at those whiners and we have some deluded Indians that think Chinese government will just put people in prison for saying things the government doesn't want to listen to. Oh well, they are as deluded as some Chinese citizens that have never stepped out of China and picture the rest of the world like Hollywood movies, lol.

So I wouldn't say most Chinese are "enlightened," instead, I believe at least those whiners need go outside and mature up.

 

[Kloitra]

In fact if I were a Chinese, I would be enraged to see Indians enjoy both High Growth and Total Freedom.

Whereas all I have as a Chinese is growth but no life, no freedom, no say in my nation's policy, total censorship of external information.

Living in China is like a convict living in an enlarged prison or under house arrest.

How much say do you have in your national policies? Can you have those 2G licences sell at higher prices? Or may be get some corrupt politicians punished? Get fast enough justice? Security for women in national capital? Enough food for more than just two third of the population. Talk about this freedom to those farmers committing suicide. What you have is:

The same Chinese that you claim has no access to external information is debating you on internet, knowing full well what is happening inside and outside China. And their growth is uniform, not like India where an Ambani builds his villa close to some slum.

Why is it so hard to accept that China is growing faster than India, and doing better alround, more importantly in HDI.

 

[timetravel]

@Kloitra

why don't you go and apply for Chinese passport? I am not stopping you.

Yes they have access to defence.pk. beacuse ccp allows it. Their eyes only see what ccp seems fit.

When did I say their growth is not higher then India.

But India is growing fast also, so I would any day take a fast growing India with freedom over a faster then India China with all the restrictions.

again don't make a dick measuring contest here for HDI, GDP etc etc.

Is India growing fast? Yes.

is Indian economy expected to do well in future? Yes.

So when the answer to above two questions is yes, I dont see why should I prefer China to India. Knowing that all my freedom would be gone in China.

 

[Kloitra]

@Kloitra

why don't you go and apply for Chinese passport? I am not stopping you.

Yes they have access to defence.pk. beacuse ccp allows it. Their eyes only see what ccp seems fit.

When did I say their growth is not higher then India.

But India is growing fast also, so I would any day take a fast growing India with freedom over a faster then India China with all the restrictions.

again don't make a dick measuring contest here for HDI, GDP etc etc.

Is India growing fast? Yes.

is Indian economy expected to do well in future? Yes.

So when the answer to above two questions is yes, I dont see why should I prefer China to India. Knowing that all my freedom would be gone in China.

And what freedom would you miss in China that you have in India?
Last I remember, a girl in Mumbai was arrested because she 'liked' a post that said something against the need to close the city to mourn a leader's death. Use your freedom to go in UP and say something against any politician in his presence, he would deliver all the freedom you need. Tell this freedom crap to all those who more often than not remain hungry. And those people have a significant presence in India.

The question is not your preference over one country or other. But your knowledge about restrictions in China. It is exaggerated. And your lack of respect for what Chinese govt has done for its people. May be it is because you are apathatic about circumstances that few hundred millions live in, in India. The day India can feed those people, give them access to all basic amenities, than you can brag about all the freedom you have.

 

[timetravel]

And what freedom would you miss in China that you have in India?
Last I remember, a girl in Mumbai was arrested because she 'liked' a post that said something against the need to close the city to mourn a leader's death. Use your freedom to go in UP and say something against any politician in his presence, he would deliver all the freedom you need. Tell this freedom crap to all those who more often than not remain hungry. And those people have a significant presence in India.

The question is not your preference over one country or other. But your knowledge about restrictions in China. It is exaggerated. And your lack of respect for what Chinese govt has done for its people. May be it is because you are apathatic about circumstances that few hundred millions live in, in India. The day India can feed those people, give them access to all basic amenities, than you can brag about all the freedom you have.

Comparing a one time incident with the PERMANENT INFORMATION blockade on 1.2 BILLION Chinese....

Chinese people are not allowed to even know about a blind man. ccp never lets them know anything it doesnt want to.
http://mashable.com/2012/04/30/china-dissident-search/

and look at China's spending for internal security... a whopping 100 Billion+ Tell me is China planning for WW3 against Chinese citizens!! This 100+ Billion is to ensure that every single voice of freedom is crushed in China. and obviously such mass scale restrictions on life of billion people require massive funding.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/05/us-china-parliament-security-idUSTRE82403J20120305

So freedom and Chinese are as opposite as matter and dark matter.


and regarding the economic development,

what China has done for its people is no magic. India has lifted millions out of poverty and will keep on doing so until there is no poverty left. But yes while China has done that by taking away all forms of freedom from its people, India has achieved economic success without taking away the freedom of its citizens.

India Makes Some Progress in Reducing Poverty Says UN Millenium Development Report - India Real Time - WSJ

So obviously I would prefer India over China anyday, any moment.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Chinese people are not allowed to even know about a blind man. ccp never lets them know anything it doesnt want to.
http://mashable.com/2012/04/30/china-dissident-search/

Except that everyone knows about Chen Guangcheng.

Including his dramatic escape from custody. Some people even sympathize with him, others make puns based on his name.

 

[timetravel]

Except that everyone knows about Chen Guangcheng.

Including his dramatic escape from custody. Some people even sympathize with him, others make puns based on his name.

But the ccp did implement the ban. who knows and who doesn't is a different matter.

ccp is blocking out even such trivial thing like a blind activist, so no wonder that all that the Chinese people get to know is manipulated version of information on every important aspect of China.

"Chen is an outspoken advocate against China's "one child" policy and use of forced sterilization and abortions. He was arrested and jailed for four years in 2006, and he's been under house arrest since"

Jailed for 4 years and house arrest for 2 years..total 6 years jail.. why? did he do theft or burglary or did he sell drugs. NOOOOO.
Just for Opposing One China policy...not 1 week, not 2 weeks bloody god damm 6 years.. just for saying that One Child policy is wrong...omg

http://mashable.com/2012/04/30/china-dissident-search/

and this is not one time incident, but state policy and applies to 1.2 billion Chinese on permament basic for the last 50 good dam years. anyone who opens his mouth becomes a victim of the 100+ billion internal security programme. I would never want to live in a country with such extreme restrictions on freedom whether it is China or USA.

So please while China has done good economically, I prefer India for doing good economically but also allowing its citizens freedom at same time.

 

[Aka123]

I think people should go out, see the world with their own eyes and then comment, rather than sitting at home and relying completely on Media reports.
Else the opinions become like that of 'A Frog in the well' .... U know what I mean....

 

[Kloitra]

Comparing a one time incident with the PERMANENT INFORMATION blockade on 1.2 BILLION Chinese....

Chinese people are not allowed to even know about a blind man. ccp never lets them know anything it doesnt want to.
http://mashable.com/2012/04/30/china-dissident-search/

and look at China's spending for internal security... a whopping 100 Billion+ Tell me is China planning for WW3 against Chinese citizens!! This 100+ Billion is to ensure that every single voice of freedom is crushed in China. and obviously such mass scale restrictions on life of billion people require massive funding.

China domestic security spending rises to $111 billion | Reuters

So freedom and Chinese are as opposite as matter and dark matter.


and regarding the economic development,

what China has done for its people is no magic. India has lifted millions out of poverty and will keep on doing so until there is no poverty left. But yes while China has done that by taking away all forms of freedom from its people, India has achieved economic success without taking away the freedom of its citizens.

India Makes Some Progress in Reducing Poverty Says UN Millenium Development Report - India Real Time - WSJ

So obviously I would prefer India over China anyday, any moment.

As I said, you know all this because you are amongst the privileged ones. >60% of Indian population is not so privileged to afford a broadband internet and know about it. The freedom that Indian govt has given is illusory, in the sense that most of its population is unable to make use of it. If you think that the high mortality rate and high poverty in India is acceptable because the poor and malnourished majority who doesn't even know its rights has more freedom than those healthy, educated, well-fed Chinese with higher HDI, than sorry, I will have to disagree with you.

You should weigh your priorities better. Freedom is necessary. But there is nothing like absolute freedom. There is always some limits to what you can do and what you cant. While it is true that Indians enjoy more freedom than Chinese, but does that makes the life of Indians any better than that of Chinese? I think not. I would prefer my govt to not let any 5 year die out of hunger. That even the most poor get proper treatment, food and other basic amenities. I willing to give away a part of my freedom so that a brethren of mine doesn't die a miserable death. The weight of that blocked out information is not so great as the horrible living conditions the millions face. If you are not concerned for those 100s of million of your countrymen, than it is your choice. I cannot agree with you.

 

[timetravel]

As I said, you know all this because you are amongst the privileged ones. >60% of Indian population is not so privileged to afford a broadband internet and know about it. The freedom that Indian govt has given is illusory, in the sense that most of its population is unable to make use of it. If you think that the high mortality rate and high poverty in India is acceptable because the poor and malnourished majority who doesn't even know its rights has more freedom than those healthy, educated, well-fed Chinese with higher HDI, than sorry, I will have to disagree with you.

You should weigh your priorities better. Freedom is necessary. But there is nothing like absolute freedom. There is always some limits to what you can do and what you cant. While it is true that Indians enjoy more freedom than Chinese, but does that makes the life of Indians any better than that of Chinese? I think not. I would prefer my govt to not let any 5 year die out of hunger. That even the most poor get proper treatment, food and other basic amenities. I willing to give away a part of my freedom so that a brethren of mine doesn't die a miserable death. The weight of that blocked out information is not so great as the horrible living conditions the millions face. If you are not concerned for those 100s of million of your countrymen, than it is your choice. I cannot agree with you.

Please stop being a Chinese poster here and keep harping on poverty like @shuttler and @HongWu. Did I not give you link to show how India has uplifted millions out of poverty?

Obviously there are lots who are still under poverty. But India is growing and has achieved commendable economic progress in last 2 decades. Going into next two decades you will see poverty being almost eradicated from India.

if you one of those who like to give their views openly to other people, than thank your stars, you are not born in China, or else you would have spent 6-10 years in some unknown jails.

and come to North India, you would find people openly blasting the govt and its every single policy they do not like, on every single forum. It it were China then 90% of Indians in general would be in jail.

 

[Kloitra]

Please stop being a Chinese poster here and keep harping on poverty like @shuttler. Did I not give you link to show how India has uplifted millions out of poverty?

Obviously there are lots who are still under poverty. But India is growing and has achieved commendable economic progress in last 2 decades. Going into next two decades you will see poverty being almost eradicated from India.

I know how many have been lifted and how many would be lifted. I don't need any links from you for that. If you are happy with just this much, it is your choice. I want my country to perform much better than this. And when I see China, I can help being envious and angry. And it is not just China, many other countries have performed better in HDI growth than India. While all Indian govt delivered are promises, like they would turn Mumbai into Shanghai!

And don't tell me to stop talking about poverty. If you don't have the balls to stomach your ills, don't come online and call others crap.