RAFALE'S MINI ENCYLOPEDIA FOR IT'S FANBOYZ

[Skull and Bones]

Noob question but a doubt....We are getting Rafale Tranche 3 naa.........

Yes, after so much discussion, we're still getting noob questions.

 

[sancho]

Noob question but a doubt....We are getting Rafale Tranche 3 naa.........

H Krait, hehe interesting question after so many years of discussion about MMRCA in India. But questions need to be answered...

...we don't get the F3, but the F3+ or F3-O4T. The F3 is the current version of French forces and includes the RBE 2 PESA, while the new version will include the following modernisations:

Rafale F3-O4T and beyond

First, the Rafale F3-O4T (former Rafale roadmap) : 60 fighters ordered (25C, 25B, 10M) deliveries from 2013 to 2019

RBE-2 AESA : Final evaluation in June-July with a qualification expected before the end of 2011

DDM-NG : new missile warning receiver compatible with a future active IR jammer.

OSF-IT : improved front sector optronic suite

Damocles-XF : add a sharper TV channel to the current IR channel for better identification in urban zones. Should be introduced in 2016.

M88-2-E4 engine : extended service life and 2 to 4% less consumption...

Rafale News: Rafale F3-O4T and beyond


The Damocles XF pod was now cancelled and the NG pod will come only in 2018, which is why I strongly believe that we will go for Litening integration.

 

[KRAIT]

^ Thanks buddy. Used to follow Rafale issue a lot, lost interest since last couple of months. I am pretty bad in technical stuff too.

Yes, after so much discussion, we're still getting noob questions.

Yaar you are saying like I committed a cardinal sin.

 

[arp2041]

Pre-Flight Operation Involving The Rafale Fighter Aircraft At Its Airbase.....

Video provides a look into the pre-flight activities performed at a French airbase, and the subsequent flight of the Rafale.

The Rafales, in this video, are located on the French island of Corsica. At 6:13 you can see the airmen pulling out the barrel of the GIAT 30M 791 cannon that Rafale are fitted with. Capable of delivering some serious PWNAGE.

With the contract with France for the acquisition of around 126 of these fighters expected to signed by February-March 2013, it was recently reported that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited [H.A.L] has completed setting up of the assembly line required to build the aircrafts in India. Technology transfer can happen only after the contract has been signed, following which production is expected to begin in the country.

A disheartening statement attributed to an unnamed H.A.L. source in the second linked article seemed to suggest that France would only be supplying Complete Knock-Down [CKD] kits which would then be assembled in the country,

"While Rafale will give some aircraft in flying condition to the defence forces, the rest will come as kits to be assembled. It’s more like completely knocked down kits,” says a person who retired from a senior position at HAL while expressing his scepticism of the shape HAL would take in the coming days. He adds that though the assembly line of MMRCA is ready, there’s no technology transfer."

This seems to run contrary to statements made earlier, one of them being the first article I linked to in this post itself, which categorically stated transfer of technology & local offsets.

"Under the terms of purchase, the first 18 aircraft will come in a ‘fly away’ condition while the remaining 108 will be manufactured under Transfer of Technology. The vendor finally selected would also be required to undertake 50% offset obligations in India. The ToT and offset contracts would provide a great technological and economic boost to the indigenous defence industries which would include Defence Public Sector Undertakings, Raksha Udyog Ratnas and other eligible private sector industries. Foreign vendors would be provided great flexibility in effecting tie up with Indian partners for this purpose."

- Request for Proposal for 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft Issued

From my understanding & past practices, they are both right in the limited views expressed/quoted. If one were to recollect, the first batch of Sukhoi Su-30MKIs that India flew, arrived from Russia in similar CKD condition. Subsequently, with the assimilation of the technology transferred & developing a reliable supply chain within the country itself, H.A.L. has demonstrated its ability to build them in India,

"The deal combined license production with full technology transfer and hence was called a 'Deep License'. The MKI production was planned to be done in four phases: Phase I, II, III and IV respectively. The original plan called for the MKI production to be complete by 2018. While Phase I would see complete aircraft shipped to India, and reassembled, Phase II would see MKI's manufactured from SKD (Semi Knocked Down) kits, whereas Phase III would have MKI's made from CKD (Completely Knocked Down) assemblies as well as Indian made aggregates. Phase IV would see MKI's made from local raw materials, with locally manufactured systems (upwards of 90%)."

- globalsecurity.org

Choosing to build the Rafale from scratch right at the onset could impose time delays on the production schedule, till the time folks at H.A.L. have demonstrated competency over the technology handed over to them, a proposition India can hardly afford to contemplate. This progressive approach to aircraft building is, therefore, a wise thing to do.

Pre-Flight Operation Involving The Rafale Fighter Aircraft At Its Airbase.....And Then Whoooosh!!!, Up It Goes [Video] - AA Me, IN

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[arp2041]

France's Rafale Superfighter, soon in the Indian Air Force ? NDTV.com Photo Gallery

nice one

 

[arp2041]

Does anyone has idea as to how many twin seater Rafales IAF wanna purchase & how many single seater??? Why not all twin seater like our sukhoi fleet as IAF doctrine also calls for twin seaters.

 

[KRAIT]

Does anyone has idea as to how many twin seater Rafales IAF wanna purchase & how many single seater??? Why not all twin seater like our sukhoi fleet as IAF doctrine also calls for twin seaters.

Advanced avionics, integrated systems etc. provides all info to the pilot which are required at any particular instant. There is no load on single pilot and no need of second pilot as system itself takes the role of second pilot. Rafale is very advanced fighter, even than Sukhois, so you can understand why its not that necessary.

 

[Gessler]

Advanced avionics, integrated systems etc. provides all info to the pilot which are required at any particular instant. There is no load on single pilot and no need of second pilot as system itself takes the role of second pilot. Rafale is very advanced fighter, even than Sukhois, so you can understand why its not that necessary.

Its likely that twin-seat planes are required for training only.
@arp2041

2 twin-seat Rafale B for every squadron.

Each squadron consists of 18 Rafales including the 2 twin-seaters.

 

[sancho]

Does anyone has idea as to how many twin seater Rafales IAF wanna purchase & how many single seater??? Why not all twin seater like our sukhoi fleet as IAF doctrine also calls for twin seaters.

The twin seater doctrine was meant for air superiority fighters only, hence MKI and FGFA (initially?), because it offers advantages at long range and endurance patrol missions. Some sources said, that up to 6 out of the 18 fighters of a squad should be twin seaters.

Advanced avionics, integrated systems etc. provides all info to the pilot which are required at any particular instant. There is no load on single pilot and no need of second pilot as system itself takes the role of second pilot. Rafale is very advanced fighter, even than Sukhois, so you can understand why its not that necessary.

That's not correct, because even with very modern avionics, the workload for a single pilot especially in strike missions is still very high and where twin seaters are always preferable, which the Libyan conflict showed as well. The single seat EF pilots had difficulties laser guiding their LGBs alone, which is why the WSO of the Tornado often took over this role. Also the advantages of twin seaters made French forces order more Rafale twin seaters than single seaters.

 

[arp2041]

That's not correct, because even with very modern avionics, the workload for a single pilot especially in strike missions is still very high and where twin seaters are always preferable, which the Libyan conflict showed as well. The single seat EF pilots had difficulties laser guiding their LGBs alone, which is why the WSO of the Tornado often took over this role. Also the advantages of twin seaters made French forces order more Rafale twin seaters than single seaters.

So what will it be sancho, more twin seaters in the final contract than currently speculated???

 

[KRAIT]

The twin seater doctrine was meant for air superiority fighters only, hence MKI and FGFA (initially?), because it offers advantages at long range and endurance patrol missions. Some sources said, that up to 6 out of the 18 fighters of a squad should be twin seaters.
That's not correct, because even with very modern avionics, the workload for a single pilot especially in strike missions is still very high and where twin seaters are always preferable, which the Libyan conflict showed as well. The single seat EF pilots had difficulties laser guiding their LGBs alone, which is why the WSO of the Tornado often took over this role. Also the advantages of twin seaters made French forces order more Rafale twin seaters than single seaters.

Agreed but in fighters like Raptor, the integrated system plays an important role and I think technology wise, Rafale in terms of system integration and sensor fusion, is not that far behind the F-22 plane.

 

[arp2041]

Agreed but in fighters like Raptor, the integrated system plays an important role and I think technology wise, Rafale in terms of system integration and sensor fusion, is not that far behind the F-22 plane.

Now u r THINKING Mr. Think Tank

+ I think what sancho is trying to say that machines can't substitute HUMANS, no matter how advanced they get, that's why IAF doctrine calls for a second pilot to get better view of combat radius.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The twin seater doctrine was meant for air superiority fighters only, hence MKI and FGFA (initially?), because it offers advantages at long range and endurance patrol missions. Some sources said, that up to 6 out of the 18 fighters of a squad should be twin seaters.



That's not correct, because even with very modern avionics, the workload for a single pilot especially in strike missions is still very high and where twin seaters are always preferable, which the Libyan conflict showed as well. The single seat EF pilots had difficulties laser guiding their LGBs alone, which is why the WSO of the Tornado often took over this role. Also the advantages of twin seaters made French forces order more Rafale twin seaters than single seaters.

Yes I had heard a few months back that the IAF was interested in ordering more twin seater Raflaes than had
been requested in the orginal RFP.

 

[arp2041]

Yes I had heard a few months back that the IAF was interested in ordering more twin seater Raflaes than had
been requested in the orginal RFP.

But can IAF change orders in the final contract than originally stated in the tender?? I mean many people are just waiting to find flaws in this deal.