Rafale

[Patriot]

If we go by your analogy then everything except American and European sucks.I am not blind patriotic man.How can you say that Upgraded JF17 will be better then J10 when clearly you do know that J10B might as well get European radars unless PAF is inducting J10 just for airshows..Obviously USA has the best equipment no body is denying that but let me know when they sell you latest block 60..It was because of this American product mindset that PAF got into lost decade and for 20 years PAF did not get any new jet.I am all for Rafale over J10 but can we afford it... and will France sell it in low numbers (keep in mind India might buy 50 in mrca just so that paf does not get it even if we're interested).IF PAF can get AESA for JF-17 then why PAF cannot get AESA FOR J10..again contradicting statements.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If we go by your analogy then everything except American and European sucks.

please dont take my words out of context and nope i never said that... however you are partially true..

How can you say that Upgraded JF17 will be better then J10 when clearly you do know that J10B might as well get European radars unless PAF is inducting J10 just for airshows..

When did i say that upgraded JF-17 will be better then J-10B? I said their wont be that much of a difference to associate J-10B as High tech and JF-17 as Low tech.. isnt that PAF real intention? Which planes fills the role better... JF-17 as a low tech fighter or FC-20 as a High tech fighter? the answer is "jf-17"..

Obviously USA has the best equipment no body is denying that but let me know when they sell you latest block 60..

And buddy you also tell me when China offers us their best of the best equipments.... in fact they always offer us the export versions...

It was because of this American product mindset that PAF got into lost decade and for 20 years PAF did not get any new jet.

wasnt PAF about to purchase MK2?

I am all for Rafale over J10 but can we afford it... and will France sell it in low numbers (keep in mind India might buy 50 in mrca just so that paf does not get it even if we're interested)

for 20 years?
lol... India cant buy this and that to prevent pakistan from buying it...
Frenchies just love money... PAF is willing to spend well over a billion dollars on 36 FC-20 so better option would be a squadron of Rafeals... and i can tell JF-17 will be in a big beneficiary..

.IF PAF can get AESA for JF-17 then why PAF cannot get AESA FOR J10..again contradicting statements.

Inducting top of the line AESA radars for 4.5 generation FC-20 will be a priority but not for JF-17....

 

[Patriot]

If India buy 50 MRCA or lets just say give whole contract to France..you think they will sell us 18 Rafales..lol.Money talks..India is a bigger customer so they will prefer them.Indias can go very low.We buy chinese jets and customize it with Western Avionics so i doubt we would need best of the best chinese radar or system.Chinese too by the way will their best system if we have the money and not getting anything on 10 year loan.You know what ACM said during JF17 ceremony..that we were not able to pay so thanks to CATIC we got JF-17 loan..in easy terms.You think we can afford Rafales.. and i doubt the 45 million dollar price tag.You say that JF-17 equipped with Europeon avionics will be better then J10 but why the hell J10 equipped with Europeon Avionics wont be better then lets just say F16 Block52..I am not gonna compare JF-17 with J10B.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If India buy 50 MRCA or lets just say give whole contract to France..you think they will sell us 18 Rafales..lol.

I am afraid you are not fallowing IAF 126 MRCA deal.. To give you the straight forward answer.. SH will win the tender and no such thing as 50 SH 25 EF 25 Rafeal 25 Gripen will take place.. only one will be selected... P-8 and now possibly hawkeye D will pave way for SH...

Chinese too by the way will their best system if we have the money and not getting anything on 10 year loan.

nope.... we have the money for Type-214 F-16s Agosta90b and i am sure we can afford chinese top of the line equipments... the thing is... china wont even get us any close to their new stealth missile boats which we need, type-052 destroyers which we need so all they will do is offer a upgraded export variant... F-22P is the prime example..

You know what ACM said during JF17 ceremony..that we were not able to pay so thanks to CATIC we got JF-17 loan..

And guess what.. politics aside.. US will pay about 300 million dollars for our F-16 program..

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Will Russia be allowing us ZHuk AESA radars? What about europe? Will J-10B be lucky enough to receive par to european 4.5 generation MRCA avionics radars and other systems? What about armament package? Chinese cant offer any better AAM then SD-10 and mind you MICA and Aim-120 C5 are much more capable AAMs..
Sorry to say but if FC-20 is entirely a Chinese system then PAF has to seriously think again..

Russians can sell u everything if u pay for it, don't u know that its the same Russians who sell to China as well as to India & both of them are their biggest customers & in the end when they saw potential money in JF-17 they sold us RD-93
Right now SD-10 is slightly inferior to AIM-120-C5, don't u think its going to evolve & reach the level of MICA n AIM-120 or possibly surpass lets say level of MICA, if not AIM-120..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Russians can sell u everything if u pay for it, don't u know that its the same Russians who sell to China as well as to India & both of them are their biggest customers & in the end when they saw potential money in JF-17 they sold us RD-93

Russia to india is like China is to pakistan... both are very strong partners.. IMO the reason why russia agreed to sell RD-93 to pakistan has to do more with political reason like sending strong message to india that if they dont maintain the required arms import from Russia their doors may open to pakistan..

Right now SD-10 is slightly inferior to AIM-120-C5, don't u think its going to evolve & reach the level of MICA n AIM-120 or possibly surpass lets say level of MICA, if not AIM-120..

buddy let me give you a straight forward realistic answer... NO..

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Russia to india is like China is to pakistan... both are very strong partners.. IMO the reason why russia agreed to sell RD-93 to pakistan has to do more with political reason like sending strong message to india that if they dont maintain the required arms import from Russia their doors may open to pakistan..

This means that if Indian's didnt went for MiG-35 we can go for Zhuk AESA, come on, Pakistan can never ever be as big buyer of Russian arms as India, Russians will never ever loose the Indian market..

buddy let me give you a straight forward realistic answer... NO..

How exactly?? are u under estimating Chinese?

 

[PakShaheen79]

buddy let me give you a straight forward realistic answer... NO..

Now it is interesting... What is basis of this Blunt "NO"? I think you have some personal issue with Chinese products. I have seen your remarks about F-22 Frigates and J-10 as well. Please stop this or start providing some proves of your claims.

No offense intended.

Russia to india is like China is to pakistan... both are very strong partners.. IMO the reason why russia agreed to sell RD-93 to pakistan has to do more with political reason like sending strong message to india that if they dont maintain the required arms import from Russia their doors may open to pakistan..

Now how to translate this thing? Are you suggesting that if Mig-35 lose MRCA Russia will offer it or other fighters to Pakistan. RD-93 deal was more of China Russia thing than Pak or India

 

[sergente rehan]

I think the best way for Pakistan is to invest in JF-17 and J-10 projects....obviously it will take some time and $ to upgrade these systems and bring them in the same range (aproximatly) with the western systems, but this is the best solution for us...gradually we will learn, get the know how and infrastructure to build indigenously in Pakistan new advance systems. We have to become as much self dependent as we can, only in this way we will be able to face the future challenges but during this time phase we have to fill the gap that has been created in this past decade and we need advance platforms to counter our enemies in a short term period, we simply can't wait for 5-7 years to get a decent fighter...we need it immediately and in good numbers not just 18 F-16 blk 52's, i know there are huge economic burdens but we can watch also for some other nice platforms like Mirage 2000 (which the UAE are going to phase out bcz they are introducing Rafale) to fill this gap economically. personally i'm a big fan of Rafale, hope that PAF may take it under serious consideration in near future instead of F-16's.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

UAE Mirage-2000-9 can be a good short term solution, but i ve not heard of any negotiations to make these Mirages part of PAF, even Jordan is interested in these Mirages & if i m not wrong these Mirages will be sold at like 15-16 Million per piece, the price of this platform is pretty much good
I personally think that we must stop thinking about F-16s once those Block 52s are delivered then we must think forget about getting more of them...

 

[sergente rehan]

F-16 blk 52 are either Non-Aesa so there is no big reason for which we have to buy F-16 blk 52's repeating the same errors done in past! to me U.S.A aren't reliable so why should we continue to depend on them instead to search for new options!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Now it is interesting... What is basis of this Blunt "NO"? I think you have some personal issue with Chinese products. I have seen your remarks about F-22 Frigates and J-10 as well. Please stop this or start providing some proves of your claims.

Do you see me criticize Al-khalid, or JF-17s? the reason why because they perfectly fit their role... in pak indo context Al-khalid is the best if not as good as T-90 MBT! JF-17 also fits perfectly in its role.. mean while... we pakistanis have seem to develop "anything made in china is the best bang for the bucks" without being neutral. 4 F-22P costs 750 million dollars.. Pakistan would have been better off with 2 state of the art light LaFayette stealth frigates (the pakistani version)... trust me their are quite a few more better option then upgraded type-053H3 the F-22P... what happened to quality over quantity?

Now how to translate this thing? Are you suggesting that if Mig-35 lose MRCA Russia will offer it or other fighters to Pakistan. RD-93 deal was more of China Russia thing than Pak or India

If thats how you see it then so be it.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

F-16 blk 52 are either Non-Aesa so there is no big reason for which we have to buy F-16 blk 52's repeating the same errors done in past! to me U.S.A aren't reliable so why should we continue to depend on them instead to search for new options!

mind your IDAF is also using APG-68V9 for its F-16I. and plus this new pak-US f-16 deal also consists of surplus amount of spares which should get us going..

 

[yesboss]

[/IMG]

http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae230/yesboss/rafale-f1.jpg

 

[DaRk WaVe]

http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae230/yesboss/rafale-f1.jpg

not like this....
start with