RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[SBD-3]

In a war scenario... IAF will have the lesser number of targets... Unless and until u can't get rid of base support of the enemy u can't do anything..
IAf will go full throttle to dismantle pakistani bases... while PAF will be more concern about the defence of it's assets rather than destroying IAF's bases..
And in a war defence is no policy

A quick question, why has PAF developed Stand off capabilities then????

 

[dbc]

Bottomline----switch the positions----think that you have those majority of aircraft----and the country with lesser number and inferior aircraft is saying----no problem we will take you out-----wouldn't you be laughing at them.

Not necessarily numerical superiority does not guarantee victory. Haven't you seen 300 the movie, all you need is a ripped Gerard Butler and a good plan .


I have read several accounts of air wars in the sub continent, PAF has in the past faced some of the same constraints they do today, yet they have stood firm against a superior adversary. Winning is rarely about matching strength with strength, its about exploiting your opponents weakness and the IAF has plenty of weaknesses. For one thing, I believe PAF is better organized operationally which brings greater efficiency - the ability to do more with less. Secondly, the IAF face greater logistical challenges a side effect of numerical superiority further aggravated by war fighting machines that consume more spares and require more hours in the maintenance depot for every hour it spends in the air. PAF's most important asset the F-16 has a higher availability and sortie rate than anything the IAF fields today.

 

[untitled]

Not necessarily numerical superiority does not guarantee victory. Haven't you seen 300 the movie, all you need is a ripped Gerard Butler and a good plan .

You forgot to mention Chuck Norris as a force multiplier

 

[MastanKhan]

DBC,


Well the question in this war will be---what kind of losses the iaf can accept for its major strike aircraft----I mean to say that it is not going to be a total video game persay----. But there is going to be a magic number of su30 losses----whence that number is reached----there might be cracks begining to show in flying and operational capabilities of the iaf.

Well---not to be disrespectful---there is always a fear factor ( the break down of invincibility factor )----if paf takes down the major part of the sorties in the first 2 days of the war----paf would break the momentum of air superiority of numbers----but once the iaf regroups and takes charge----there will be some serious fighting---also what kind of assistance they will get from israeli air force---and how they utilize it will also play a major role.

Iaf cannot deploy 100% of their aircraft onour border----more like 60--70%-----.

 

[MastanKhan]

Not necessarily numerical superiority does not guarantee victory. Haven't you seen 300 the movie, all you need is a ripped Gerard Butler and a good plan .


I have read several accounts of air wars in the sub continent, PAF has in the past faced some of the same constraints they do today, yet they have stood firm against a superior adversary. Winning is rarely about matching strength with strength, its about exploiting your opponents weakness and the IAF has plenty of weaknesses. For one thing, I believe PAF is better organized operationally which brings greater efficiency - the ability to do more with less. Secondly, the IAF face greater logistical challenges a side effect of numerical superiority further aggravated by war fighting machines that consume more spares and require more hours in the maintenance depot for every hour it spends in the air. PAF's most important asset the F-16 has a higher availability and sortie rate than anything the IAF fields today.

Hi DBC,

Those accounts of war were being handled with similiar kind of aircraft with similiar kind of capabilities----sabre a high altitude fighter---gnat a low altitude fighter----you fought the enemy from your position of strength----.

Then why do the pakistanis forget about the air to air missiles---the sidewinders---that they had on theF86 sabre in ----.

When I comparew wargame----I talk about what is in store today----every other compatriot talks about what we gonna have tomorrow----. But if it is all about tomorrow----then 75 to a 100 blk 52's including MLU's----100 FC20's and a 150 Jf 17 would suffice-----plus a high end ground to air missile defence system---short medium and long range.

Bottomline is---what kind of losses iaf can accept to its leading aircraft--and can still remain and operate as a striking air force---that will decide the war----.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

DBC,


Well the question in this war will be---what kind of losses the iaf can accept for its major strike aircraft----I mean to say that it is not going to be a total video game persay----. But there is going to be a magic number of su30 losses----whence that number is reached----there might be cracks begining to show in flying and operational capabilities of the iaf.

Well---not to be disrespectful---there is always a fear factor ( the break down of invincibility factor )----if paf takes down the major part of the sorties in the first 2 days of the war----paf would break the momentum of air superiority of numbers----but once the iaf regroups and takes charge----there will be some serious fighting---also what kind of assistance they will get from israeli air force---and how they utilize it will also play a major role.

Iaf cannot deploy 100% of their aircraft onour border----more like 60--70%-----.

yeah it will be like 60-70%. But i cant agree with DBC. According to her PakAF is better organised than iaf. May be in the time of 1971. But right now situation is changed. There is more money, more infrustructure on the indian side and growing repidly. And most of all paf doesnt have the tech superiority it once possesed over iaf. Every1 talking about better sortie rate of F16 but question is only considersing MKI's falling from the skys is not a realistic scenario. Same thing may happen to F16. If large chunk of F16s goes down it will be curtains for PAF.
I m not trying to Support IAF blindly against u senior membars, but in some cases common sence pevails. Dont you think so.

 

[Manticore]

yes , right now f16s and jft blk1 have a difficult job of dealing with m2k, su30 and mmrca --- but with jft blk2 and fc20 coming in the picture , the odds wont be that bleak for paf as posted by many members -- these new fighters will take a lot of weight off the shoulders of f16s

i am really sick of the words ''war proven , matured'' - most of the new tech undergoes a lot of computer simulations and dont need them to enter a war to prove their worthiness -- however integration needs time ---- this goes out for both the new platforms like rafale and jft

the topic is not about politics , su30 , economics , iaf vs paf , 65/71 war etc --IT's about rafale vs f16

 

[untitled]

One area where the F-16 block 52 definitely beats the Rafale is.... The number of orders the former has attained... but that too may change if India selects the Rafale

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

When you have stretched the discussion for 36 pages-----it has to take into account the 'other' issues that can come along the way.

 

[SBD-3]

yes , right now f16s and jft blk1 have a difficult job of dealing with m2k, su30 and mmrca --- but with jft blk2 and fc20 coming in the picture , the odds wont be that bleak for paf as posted by many members -- these new fighters will take a lot of weight off the shoulders of f16s

i am really sick of the words ''war proven , matured'' - most of the new tech undergoes a lot of computer simulations and dont need them to enter a war to prove their worthiness -- however integration needs time ---- this goes out for both the new platforms like rafale and jft

the topic is not about politics , su30 , economics , iaf vs paf , 65/71 war etc --IT's about rafale vs f16

Sir, M2K is roughly equal to JFT block 1. when it comes to A2A JFT is a worth opponent. M2K is usually used by IAF in A2G role. So dont fall into the comments by Indian members. Su-30, well they did send their invincible aircraft once over kharian fully loaded, only to be intercepted by Block 15s and F-7PGs. What i can remember is that someone calling, "other things aside, the EW suit disappointed, we were expecting better from Israelis". When time will come PAF knows what it will face and how to deal with it.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Sir, M2K is roughly equal to JFT block 1. when it comes to A2A JFT is a worth opponent. M2K is usually used by IAF in A2G role. So dont fall into the comments by Indian members. Su-30, well they did send their invincible aircraft once over kharian fully loaded, only to be intercepted by Block 15s and F-7PGs. What i can remember is that someone calling, "other things aside, the EW suit disappointed, we were expecting better from Israelis". When time will come PAF knows what it will face and how to deal with it.

only one thing to say...link please. Sir, Or else you should stop making un necessary stupid claims.

 

[DARKY]

Not necessarily numerical superiority does not guarantee victory. Haven't you seen 300 the movie, all you need is a ripped Gerard Butler and a good plan .

Yeah why not......I have also seen Jonh Rambo.....

I have read several accounts of air wars in the sub continent, PAF has in the past faced some of the same constraints they do today, yet they have stood firm against a superior adversary. Winning is rarely about matching strength with strength, its about exploiting your opponents weakness and the IAF has plenty of weaknesses. For one thing, I believe PAF is better organized operationally which brings greater efficiency - the ability to do more with less. Secondly, the IAF face greater logistical challenges a side effect of numerical superiority further aggravated by war fighting machines that consume more spares and require more hours in the maintenance depot for every hour it spends in the air. PAF's most important asset the F-16 has a higher availability and sortie rate than anything the IAF fields today.

And who would get the spares and other parts of F-16??........In case you don't remember F-16 bock 52 were given to PAF to support them in WOT.........not to fight against India............About IAF war machines.......let me tell you they are manufactured in India itself and apart from some very serious flaw.......they don't need to call on Russian engineers........they have been maintaining Flankers and Fulcrum fleets from over a decade and have never felt the need of compromise on sortie rates whatsoever due inavailability of spares in recent years.......even during Kargil very high sortie rates were maintained way over PAF(that could be due to lack of coordination between Musharraf and PAF).......And about the PAF being organized operationally......we don't live in past now.......even talking of past.......PAF were known for preemptive strikes.....the lack of organized operation ability was clearly seen in numerous battles where huge mechanized strike groups kept asking for PAF air support but got none......and hand full of Border guarding Indian soldiers countered and destroyed them thanks to the timely response of IAF fighters which were technologically far inferior to what PAF fielded at that time.....I guess Pakistani members can shed more light on that part.

And about fielding part IAF does field Mirage 2K and fulcrums........other than flankers.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Yeah why not......I have also seen Jonh Rambo.....



And who would get the spares and other parts of F-16??........In case you don't remember F-16 bock 52 were given to PAF to support them in WOT.........not to fight against India............About IAF war machines.......let me tell you they are manufactured in India itself and apart from some very serious flaw.......they don't need to call on Russian engineers........they have been maintaining Flankers and Fulcrum fleets from over a decade and have never felt the need of compromise on sortie rates whatsoever due inavailability of spares in recent years.......even during Kargil very high sortie rates were maintained way over PAF(that could be due to lack of coordination between Musharraf and PAF).......And about the PAF being organized operationally......we don't live in past now.......even talking of past.......PAF were known for preemptive strikes.....the lack of organized operation ability was clearly seen in numerous battles where huge mechanized strike groups kept asking for PAF air support but got none......and hand full of Border guarding Indian soldiers countered and destroyed them thanks to the timely response of IAF fighters which were technologically far inferior to what PAF fielded at that time.....I guess Pakistani members can shed more light on that part.

And about fielding part IAF does field Mirage 2K and fulcrums........other than flankers.

thnxxx man...

I was trying to make the same point. Ur post really helped in our discussion.

 

[DARKY]

Sir, M2K is roughly equal to JFT block 1. when it comes to A2A JFT is a worth opponent. M2K is usually used by IAF in A2G role. So dont fall into the comments by Indian members. Su-30, well they did send their invincible aircraft once over kharian fully loaded, only to be intercepted by Block 15s and F-7PGs. What i can remember is that someone calling, "other things aside, the EW suit disappointed, we were expecting better from Israelis". When time will come PAF knows what it will face and how to deal with it.

As usual................don't you people feel ashamed of making such awkwardly hilarious claims.......
Can you present any proof or link to validate whatever you puked here??

 

[DARKY]

thnxxx man...

Any time bro....