RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[majesticpankaj]

You managed to tell me that F-16IN is old an inferior to Rafale, you even managed to comment on it's old airframe, lolz. this would not be the case had IAF chosen F-16IN.

lol... what a stupid argument... if F-16 IN would have better than Rafale why would the IAF would opt for that.... why didn't they go for F-16IN ... whish is half costly as rafale

answer is simple... but u need to think for that

 

[SQ8]

You managed to tell me that F-16IN is old an inferior to Rafale, you even managed to comment on it's old airframe, lolz. this would not be the case had IAF chosen F-16IN.

The F-16 in its design philosophy and future capability is inferior to the rafale, Aim-120D or not, the rafale is still the better airframe, and offers a lot more growth compared to the F-16.. heck the F-16 was the pioneer in its class.. but its time it bows out.I do however.. agree with your last sentence, it could have been very possible.

 

[Jungibaaz]

lol... what a stupid argument... if F-16 IN would have better than Rafale why would the IAF would opt for that.... why didn't they go for F-16IN ... whish is half costly as rafale

answer is simple... but u need to think for that

F-16IN is inferior to the Rafale, the post I was replying to implied that the F-16IN was not capable of taking on the rafale or EFT in WVR combat.

The F-16IN had not been chosen.... A) Because Pakistan has been operating these F-16s for decades. B) because the Rafale and EFT are somewhat superior.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Lol you only contradicted your previous posts and even i said the same that eurofighter and rafale never let the F16 even closer ,thankz to meteor and Mica ,now you got plane vanila Amraam ,non AESA ,less payload ,less agile and less range plane,do you think they gonna even stand a chance against Both euros.. Don't repeat same example about PAF pilot in F16 and typhoon WVR engagment in control environment mate. .......

you seem lost....

I was talking about F-16IN and not Block 52.

 

[majesticpankaj]

F-16IN is inferior to the Rafale, the post I was replying to implied that the F-16IN was not capable of taking on the rafale or EFT in WVR combat.

The F-16IN had not been chosen.... A) Because Pakistan has been operating these F-16s for decades. B) because the Rafale and EFT are somewhat superior.

C) Legendary fighter is at the end of his lifecycle...and as rightly ponted out by Santro Sir-- no more growth opportunities.

and Rafale is definitely superior that's why it is still in the race... and if u have gone through recent interview of IAF chief that we are focusing on capability centric forces rather than adversary centric forces.. It is quite evident

 

[Storm Force]

THE BLOCK 52 represent 18 fighters ( one single squadron)

or less than 5% of PAFS entire combat fleet.

The much older block 15 EVEN WHEN UPGRADED will not give you the same fighter as the block 52.

AS far as what we are seeing there is a deep mistrust and real freeze developing between USA & pakistan.

Possibly meaning NO MORE USA fighters in the future.

WHY THEN EVEN OPEN A THREAD FOR A F16/52 V RAFALE its hardly relevant with only 18 planes in total.

 

[Jungibaaz]

THE BLOCK 52 represent 18 fighters ( one single squadron)

or less than 5% of PAFS entire combat fleet.

The much older block 15 EVEN WHEN UPGRADED will not give you the same fighter as the block 52.

AS far as what we are seeing there is a deep mistrust and real freeze developing between USA & pakistan.

Possibly meaning NO MORE USA fighters in the future.

WHY THEN EVEN OPEN A THREAD FOR A F16/52 V RAFALE its hardly relevant with only 18 planes in total.

43 being upgraded, may not be a new F-16, but it is up to Block 50 standards.

and yes, this could well be the last US fighter Pakistan ever buys. Probably either Chinese, indigenous or joint venture for PAF from now on

 

[Manticore]

PAF F-16s will be brought up to blk 52 standard minus 3 things
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...6-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html
1. there are no improvements to the Block 15s mission range and loiter time;
2. there are no engine improvements; and,
3. there are no improvements to payload capacity

It has other things that come with blk 52 like APG-68v9 radar, JHMCS, JDAM, AGM-84 Harpoon capability, etc

 

[MastanKhan]

PAF F-16s will be brought up to blk 52 standard minus 3 things
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...6-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html
1. there are no improvements to the Block 15s mission range and loiter time;
2. there are no engine improvements; and,
3. there are no improvements to payload capacity

It has other things that come with blk 52 like APG-68v9 radar, JHMCS, JDAM, AGM-84 Harpoon capability, etc

Antibody,

That upgrade should be worthwhile---mission range and loiter time is fine---engine works good---payload is better than anything other than F 16---so it is a win win situation.

 

[Kasmiriat]

Come 2016 and are going to be kicked!!

 

[kingdurgaking]

We do not know why the F-16IN lost out to the Rafale in India.


With so much corruption in India I wouldn't be surprised to learn IAF's choice was motivated by greed. You assume Rafale was superior but the UAE is refusing the Rafale because it was found to be inferior to its own F-16 Block 60.

Pakistan will be hoping India chooses the Rafale, in terms of capability it doesn't offer more than Pakistan's F-16's and India will likely to go bankrupt fighting a war with French weapons.

DBC ... you have to understand that ACM of IAF did say everything was a super jets(including Mig).. he said everything differed hardly in 10-15 parameters... which means in a given test point F-16 was not able to succeed on those 10-15 parameters... ultimately you have to do ranking and choose the best that worked well for Indian conditions.. For sure if it had been a political decision everyone can be pretty sure what would have won...

Secondly and you are aware how US has enforce several agreements with India.. do you think US will be able to provide the offset and ToT?.. that is totaly impossible for US companies nor for US government to provide.. If US government really considered India... it should have been fielded F-35 by LM two years back when Government asked the vendors to submit the proposal.. but LM still fielded F16... if LM felt F-35 wasnt developed so is EFT and Rafale not developed.. similarly the case with Boeing.... The loss of US vendors is surely with vendor itself.. and it has got nothing to do with IAF or the selection.. because it is a transparent one.. and which is going to be patend also

 

[kingdurgaking]

DBC,

From you mouth to God's ears----only if wishes could come true----and if they do---I will send you a box of chocolates---actually no---a bouquet of flowers---thank you.

Sirjee.. you may look happy just by reading those words as it is against India.. but the reality is otherwise.. Rafale may look expensive.. but it will help in winning war unlike F-16.. I hope you understand what i am speaking... Our Mirages where available on time and all time.. For a customer that is the ultimate thing...

 

[kingdurgaking]

They were flying but IAF did not dare to cross the border and when they did they got thier a$$es handed over to them. After Mumbai attack PAF was fully mobilized and in war time CAPs and one attempt by IAF to cross the border was intercepted in less than 5 minutes.

Is it so??... you can search in this forum itself.. what was PAF doing?... they where not covering your own men..... we had a free ride... When you have controlled a land in the war you will have the ability to fly you own Air asset ... while you people are thinking that PAF was decent enough not to cross the LoC while your men did.. it is otherwise.. PAF was not able to cross the LoC... because for sure shot if it did..

 

[DARKY]

Only a fool would believe that WVR combat is outdated.
Tell me plz, stealth vs stealth? you going to use your BVRAAMs??? come on man, use your common sense!

Mig 21 bison vs F-15 was quite lucky, and no it is not superior to F-15C
In WVR combat it may prove it's worth, but the F-15 would never let it get that close.

But as I say again, which doesn't seem to be getting to you. An F-16IN with aim-120D is formidable, even against Rafale.

please revise my posts, it seems the info I give you goes in one ear and out the other.

You are very correct about the bold parts..........but talking about stealth vs stealth we forget that IRSTs are maturing so is the AESA radars Poweful X-band and L-band AESA integrated on stealth planes would always make BVR prominent until something dramatic like invisibility cloak comes out.

And about Aim-120D what you people keep forgetting that a superior missile with ramjet propulsion and possibly longer range(METEOR) is what rafael offers.

 

[Jungibaaz]

You are very correct about the bold parts..........but talking about stealth vs stealth we forget that IRSTs are maturing so is the AESA radars Poweful X-band and L-band AESA integrated on stealth planes would always make BVR prominent until something dramatic like invisibility cloak comes out.

That may be the case but there are ways of combating offence with defence, it is simply the way the world works. there ways of combating IRST too, reducing heat signatures, cooler engine nozzles etc.