Rafale Jet Deal with France Next on Modi Government's Radar

[axisofevil]

The IAF isn't going to be interested in second hand aged jets coming to the end of their lives, the same jet that who's more advanced version was found to not meet their technical criteria. The Rafale is going to be ordered at the end of this year along with a further 63 at some point thereafter- end of story.

The truth is the FGFA project is a necessity and all those writing it off based on media reports from paid/biased/ignorant media need to cool it.

And for the last time the IAF can easily afford both the FGFA and MMRCA (the latter not costing anywhere near $20 Billion).

i didn't say for the IAF to buy the F 16's. I merely pointing out the huge number of jets in their inventory and how they are going for the F 35 block II. The Rafael has never seen combat. It is not a combat proven jet, end of story.



The cost escalations within 5 yrs is BS.


FGFA is outdated tech. It cannot counter the American tech.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I merely pointing out the huge number of jets in their inventory and how they are going for the F 35 block II.

It's a fair point but not entirely relevant to the Indian context- India faces far more capable adversaries in both technology and quantities.

The Rafael has never seen combat. It is not a combat proven jet, end of story.

The Rafale has taken part in combat mission in Afghanistan, Libya, Mali and now Iraq if this is not combat proven I don't know what is. And aren't you advocating India go for the Eurofighter that has next to know combat pedigree and the one time it was called upon to do so (Libya 2011) it failed miserably.

The Rafale IS a combat proven jet- end of story.

FGFA is outdated tech. It cannot counter the American tech.

Again, a very arbitrary assessment of yours, not only can you not know this but it is rather irrelevant anyway. India isn't going to be fighting the Americans anytime soon, no two ways about it the FGFA will be far more advanced than anything the PLAAF (and by extension PAF) will be able to field against it.

 

[cloud_9]

It is our habit, be it road construction, bridge construction etc.. everything in every state of India. Once a tender (even simple ones) comes out in any central or state govt. the tender process takes up to three months, then the L1 is awarded. Then the work order is issued after quite a long time, then there is so many file work from one table to another, so many under table job.

After that when the work starts, there always a clause of price increase, court cases sometimes and that is bound to increase owing to the long time taken.

It happens because of delay in taking decisions.

Lowest bidder is usually the winner and this how it works everywhere in the Commonwealth but there's always a privilege clause in most government contracts saying "The lowest or any tender will not necessarily be accepted.”

So it all comes down to the people.

 

[axisofevil]

It's a fair point but not entirely relevant to the Indian context- India faces far more capable adversaries in both technology and quantities.



The Rafale has taken part in combat mission in Afghanistan, Libya, Mali and now Iraq if this is not combat proven I don't know what is. And aren't you advocating India go for the Eurofighter that has next to know combat pedigree and the one time it was called upon to do so (Libya 2011) it failed miserably.

The Rafale IS a combat proven jet- end of story.



Again, a very arbitrary assessment of yours, not only can you not know this but it is rather irrelevant anyway. India isn't going to be fighting the Americans anytime soon, no two ways about it the FGFA will be far more advanced than anything the PLAAF (and by extension PAF) will be able to field against it.

Combat proven? HAHAHA. So, you're telling us that Rafale is combat proven because it flew in countries with no anti aircraft guns/missiles, no fighter aircraft to put up a challenge?

Once, agin yo have shown the logic you possess.



FGFA is a piece of junk that was signed too damn quick without taking any facts into account. The deal was signed in a bloody hurry. PLAAF has better stuff than us. They have already stolen the blueprints for alot of cutting edge tech. They wont mass produce anything till they build many prototypes, determine the best tech, their needs, etc.

 

[Chromatin]

France is desperate. It must sell Rafales to India or their defense industry and Dussault may go put of business. They are not in the best bargaining position. On the other hand, Mr. Modi is Gujarati and a Benya and thus, Modi should not have much difficulty in twisting their arm to get the deal that India can afford. I am quite certain that is what is going on right now.

 

[sancho]

France is desperate. It must sell Rafales to India or their defense industry and Dussault may go put of business. They are not in the best bargaining position.

Welcome to the forum, I would suggest to use the search function to get more infos and understand the matter first.
Dassault is doing well without Rafale exports, once because the defence side is only a small part of their business and their civil aviation side alone is getting more than enough profits. But also because the current Rafale orders for French forces alone gives them production beyond 2020, while most of their current competitors like the EF, F16, F18 or F15 will stop production at the end of this decade.
In MMRCA they are even in the confortable position now, since we have selected them as L1, so they know they have the costs advantage on their side, besides the capability advantage of the fighter at the moment.

Besides that, some corrections from the other thread. Russia had offered us Su 35s back in the late 90s and is offering them now only to China, because we get the best they have now, which is the Pak Fa / FGFA. Same goes for other fields too, RD93 engines, which we have under licence production in the base varient for years, while we now even got the advanced version and Mig 35s that we are phasing out and. So there is no issue with them selling older stuff to our opponents to make some money, as long as they give us the best they have under the best conditions any arms supplier offer us.

 

[greatone]

Welcome to the forum, I would suggest to use the search function to get more infos and understand the matter first.
Dassault is doing well without Rafale exports, once because the defence side is only a small part of their business and their civil aviation side alone is getting more than enough profits. But also because the current Rafale orders for French forces alone gives them production beyond 2020, while most of their current competitors like the EF, F16, F18 or F15 will stop production at the end of this decade.
In MMRCA they are even in the confortable position now, since we have selected them as L1, so they know they have the costs advantage on their side, besides the capability advantage of the fighter at the moment.

Besides that, some corrections from the other thread. Russia had offered us Su 35s back in the late 90s and is offering them now only to China, because we get the best they have now, which is the Pak Fa / FGFA. Same goes for other fields too, RD93 engines, which we have under licence production in the base varient for years, while we now even got the advanced version and Mig 35s that we are phasing out and. So there is no issue with them selling older stuff to our opponents to make some money, as long as they give us the best they have under the best conditions any arms supplier offer us.

So you don't agree its a buyer's market right now when it comes to fighter jets ?

 

[sancho]

So you don't agree its a buyer's market right now when it comes to fighter jets ?

Why not? For India MMRCA is a huge chance to get not only fighters but to demand high ToT and offsets and the problems of western countries during the financial crisis, that caused defence budgets to be cut big times is a chance for India to get more than ever before. However, that doesn't necessarily apply to Dassault, while the EF consortium and their partner countries are far more desperate. That's why I think that the EF even if less capable at the moment and more costly, could offer India more potential advantages wrt industial and technological benefits.

 

[ptltejas]

Why not? For India MMRCA is a huge chance to get not only fighters but to demand high ToT and offsets and the problems of western countries during the financial crisis, that caused defence budgets to be cut big times is a chance for India to get more than ever before. However, that doesn't necessarily apply to Dassault, while the EF consortium and their partner countries are far more desperate. That's why I think that the EF even if less capable at the moment and more costly, could offer India more potential advantages wrt industial and technological benefits.

what kind of ToT would be their, whether we should be able to get techs for AESA Radar and Spectra Electronic System?

 

[Last Samuri]

Hush your noise people.

Rafale is coming by 2017..

The most advanced fourth generationfighter on tthe planet.

I would take a rafale equipped with meteore bvr and aesa radar over any fighter in the pak or chinease airforce including their j10 and block 52s.

Rafale is a stunning system

 

[Chromatin]

Welcome to the forum, I would suggest to use the search function to get more infos and understand the matter first.
.

France is desperate. It is the sole financial supporter of Rafale and they spent already too much on this fighter jet. They hoped to sell a lot of them to foreign countries like Mirage. That did not happen because of politics and competition from Typhoon, F16/18/35 which are backed by stronger economies like UK-Germany and USA respectively. Now they have a new competition from cheap knock off J31 etc. from China. Modi can cancel this deal and buy Typhoon for example which is quite equivalent. As a buyer, Modi has a choice but France doesn't. Modi is tough and a Gujrati. He will twist their arm and pay the price he wants. Dassault must know it by now that Modi is not Manmohan Singh.

As for Russia, it is an irrational drunk friend. India needs to get away from Russia. It no longer produces quality product in any field let alone fighter jets. Their jets will remain one generation or more behind US fighters. They are also too close to China which in itself should be a red flag for India. India chose the right path of working with best techs from France, Israel and USA. India is also united with them in the common goal of containing China's military.

However, I believe that India should also buy at least one squadron of F35s from Lockheed to augment Rafale jets in IAF.

 

[sancho]

what kind of ToT would be their, whether we should be able to get techs for AESA Radar and Spectra Electronic System?

Check this:
Sophistication of Indian tech is now sufficient to build a Rafale | Page 23

 

[Lostsoldier]

@sancho nd @Abingdonboy time to face more trolls and fan boys. Well best of luck.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Check this:
Sophistication of Indian tech is now sufficient to build a Rafale | Page 23

It would be better if they do not build this version but ask the French to update it to a 5 gen. It might be more costly but it will be serving for longer. The other advantage would be Indian aviation sector would be able to work on 5 Gen.

 

[JaiShriAllahNath]

LCA MK2 is nothing in front of Rafale.

Your brain works like Anglophiles. (lot of arrogance, but small brain size)

Soviet Union had huge, big weapons. What happened? Economy collapsed. Rafale is overcostly, overexpensive. India will die even before war starts. LCA is cheap. Mass produce it.