Rafale is not a Game Changer - Senior Analyst Shahzad Chaudhry

[Ultima Thule]

I'm not sure of that maybe others know more about this. I don't think USAF would order APG-83 air cooled if it doesnt work at higher altitdues.

APG-83 is air cooled AESA ,i don't know that???

 

[Mamajama]

Good illustrations showing detection range of 1M2 target with different F-16 radar. Probably similar to KLJ vs LFK.

APG-80 is liquid cooled

APG-83 is air cooled

 

[Mamajama]

APG-83 is air cooled AESA ,i don't know that???

Yes which is why its performance is less than APG-80 because it uses less power so it doesn't get too hot I think. Very easy to integrate with new F-16 and F-18 though.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Good illustrations showing detection range of 1M2 target with different F-16 radar. Probably similar to KLJ vs LFK.

APG-80 is liquid cooled

APG-83 is air cooled

can you give me a source that proves that APG-83 is a air cooled AESA???

 

[Mamajama]

can you give me a source that proves that APG-83 is a air cooled AESA???

Specialists at other radar design houses question how effective the APG-83 can be since the set depends on using the airflow that cools the other avionics in the F-16 and then using an internal liquid-cooling module and heat exchanger that is on-board the radar set itself.

“This has the advantage of not having to plumb a liquid-cooling system into the aircraft, as Lockheed Martin did with the F-16E/F Block 60 for the UAE,” said a U.S. airborne radar firm’s representative. “But the question is whether or not that cooling solution allows you to run the radar’s T/R modules at their maximum capacity because of the heat that they generate. Plus there are other questions about whether the modules could be software limited in order to be in compliance with U.S. government policy” on the export of sensitive technology.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-07-11/aesa-radar-and-technology-developments

 

[Ultima Thule]

Specialists at other radar design houses question how effective the APG-83 can be since the set depends on using the airflow that cools the other avionics in the F-16 and then using an internal liquid-cooling module and heat exchanger that is on-board the radar set itself.

“This has the advantage of not having to plumb a liquid-cooling system into the aircraft, as Lockheed Martin did with the F-16E/F Block 60 for the UAE,” said a U.S. airborne radar firm’s representative. “But the question is whether or not that cooling solution allows you to run the radar’s T/R modules at their maximum capacity because of the heat that they generate. Plus there are other questions about whether the modules could be software limited in order to be in compliance with U.S. government policy” on the export of sensitive technology.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-07-11/aesa-radar-and-technology-developments

Na, i think its not clear in this article that APG-83 is air cooled AESA, in first line of your article whether its airflow from internal cooling module or from out side atmosphere is not quite clear from that article???

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

Without getting into specifics, keeping security in mind, Yes.

Btw Indian Rafale is F3R, F4 is not expected before 2023, for FAF.

To much mystery

 

[Mamajama]

Na, i think its not clear in this article that APG-83 is air cooled AESA, in first line of your article whether its airflow from internal cooling module or from out side atmosphere is not quite clear from that article???

I did find that the NG APG-83 SABR as installed in the Viper requires about 5.5kW of cooling capacity, which is (marginally?) supplied by an ECS duct (i.e. air-conditioned air), which removes heat from a heat exchanger installed as part of the APG-83 itself.

http://srv1.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56649

 

[Ultima Thule]

I did find that the NG APG-83 SABR as installed in the Viper requires about 5.5kW of cooling capacity, which is (marginally?) supplied by an ECS duct (i.e. air-conditioned air), which removes heat from a heat exchanger installed as part of the APG-83 itself.

http://srv1.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56649

And you didn't post next line
The actual APG-83 cooling system being of the self-contained liquid variety

I think it utilize both liquid and air cooling
simultaneously???

 

[Mamajama]

So on the front end of the airplane is this APG83 — it’s an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. Unlike the Block 60 airplanes, that are liquid-cooled, this is air-cooled, so there’s no need for all that plumbing that the Block 60 has. If you notice there’s no mechanical


Bro @Ultima Thule here this is from Lockheed employee it confirms it.

https://stratpost.com/detailed-lockheed-martins-f-16-offer-to-india/3/

 

[Khan vilatey]

We never fired SD-10 on 27 FEB as per PAF/ISPR, only we fired 2 AIM-120C5 which both hit their intended targets

KLJ-7A AESA is bigger than LFK-601E (more transceiver modules) and its liquid cooled AESA than Air cooled LFK-601E

I think there was a thread here that spoke of klj7 air cooled version. Can some one please confirm. This was specifically done to allow easier installation in block 2. As I understand this was done to ensure that we don’t have two different radars to maintain different version of the jet. We are not as stupid as the Indian air force

Bro I agree liquid cooled is way better AESA but more complicated.

I am not sure about the whole liquid cool is better. Once electronics are miniaturized they can be effectively cooled. I have some expertise in Tfl antennas. Similar to what is used in AESA radars

kv

 

[Ultima Thule]

I think there was a thread here that spoke of klj7 air cooled version. Can some one please confirm. This was specifically done to allow easier installation in block 2. As I understand this was done to ensure that we don’t have two different radars to maintain different version of the jet. We are not as stupid as the Indian air force

Bro KLJ-7A is liquid cooled AESA but in three versions,

1- fixed
2- swath - plate (movable AESA, like MSA (Mechanical scanned array))
3- 3 AESA one main or big AESA and two smaller ones

 

[ziaulislam]

Na, i think its not clear in this article that APG-83 is air cooled AESA, in first line of your article whether its airflow from internal cooling module or from out side atmosphere is not quite clear from that article???

Sir its is air cool common sense thats why it can be retrofitted so easily

 

[Khan vilatey]

Bro KLJ-7A is liquid cooled AESA but in three versions,

1- fixed
2- swath - plate (movable AESA, like MSA (Mechanical scanned array))
3- 3 AESA one main or big AESA and two smaller ones

so I am not an expert on this but I remember reading on PDF that the same institute that makes kLj-7a made an air cooled version of the same heard it had a reduced range 180km or something. LFK-601E Is made by another institute in China.
Kv

 

[Ultima Thule]

so I am not an expert on this but I remember reading on PDF that the same institute that makes kLj-7a made an air cooled version of the same heard it had a reduced range 180km or something. LFK-601E Is made by another institute in China.
Kv

If you can go 2018 Zuhai airshow thread in China defense section, there is lots pics and specs of KLJ-7A that states its liquid cooled AESA