Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy

[UKBengali]

Oh Russians.This type of silly comments is seems not good for his diplomatic position.We have our national interest and security.All others are just secondary to it.
Chinese are now capable of developing fighters more advanced than the Russians.
Only fighter that can compete Rafale is Chinese own J 20 or J31.Russian technologies are outdated .Indians knows that very well than others.That is why we intergrating our own tech and western tech in Su30MKI.

Would it be possible to tell this to lots of Indians here who think otherwise?

 

[帅的一匹]

RAFALE will replace Mirages,migs e.t.c.
AMCA is meant to replace Jaguars when they get ready.
Also remember that we have 10 to 11 squadrons short of the required no. of squadrons so actually in next decade we will add more fighters than we will retire.
I cant understand your point of delaying?? We can not devlop AMCA until and unless we get tot by Rafale deal and fill the critical gaps.AMCA devlopment will be followed by signing of of RAFALE deal.

several points:
Mig shall be replaced by Tejas not Rafale. Rafale induct will not help you developing a 5th gen fighter cause it is certainly just a 4.5 gen fighter. if you guys always restrict yourself to something ready made tech, you can't innovate at all.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

why buy Russian when you can buy Chinese
basically same airframe or the Chinese one is better
the Chinese one has better electronics
the Chinese one has it's own domestic engine
the Chinese one uses Chinese missiles
the Chinese one is cheaper
the Chinese one comes with better customer service

nice job Russia giving up your market share

I would say that Nice job to USA, without approaching or interacting with Americans over business we chinese wouldn't be able to learn all these points you have mentioned. And talk about business virtually all American consuming good are from China without saying that include your F35 spare parts too ...I I just love globolization

 

[mike2000]

buying Rafale will kill AMCA, if not just postpone it.

well while i agree with to some extent. i have to disagree with your point about india being better off cancelling their rafale deal togeher(though i think they would have been better off going for eurofighter or even more so F-35 ). you have to know India cant design and build a 4.5 generation fighter independently, much lessa 5th generation one. This can be seen in LCA(which isn't even 4.5 gen fighter) which is still not operational and won't be anytime soon due to difficulties/delays etc. so how do you expect them to build a 5th generation fighter alone?. the hell even China just unveiled its 5th generation fighter just recently(and it will take years for it to be operational). I think India is being realistic. hence they will go for foreign fighters which are more proven/reliable.
however i do agree India has to focus on their own indeginous industries, so they can be able to build more sophisticated fighter jets like Rafale in future. for this they have invest more in R & D and encourge other private/Foreign companies to get involve in supply chain. Theres nothing like relying on yourself, its alswasy better in long run.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

get more advanced weapon from Russia?
what weapons are those??
the Chinese military practically has everything Russia has in terms of capability or better. if not now in the next 10 years when defense spending picks up ever more.

That'z not truth, there is still plenty of room for China-Russia cooperation: an equal parnership over military project will certainly reduce the burden of both nations about finacial resources and consolidate our relation.

 

[temp1994]

Hi,

The purchase of Rafale was not on merit but a strategic decision----it was the only way india could cut off the sale of French electronic package and french weapons for the JF 17 aircraft---.

Pakistan and france were in an advanced stage of development of the electronics package for the JF 17----.

If it was not for that----india would have either picked the Mig35 or the Eurofighter.

Bottomline---india had no other choice if it needed to stop the sale of goods from france---its hands were and are tied---. They have to buy French---otherwise pak gets its package.

You are wrong on that assertion.

India blocked JF-17 package by overpaying France for upgrade of India's Mirage-2000. It was a $2.4 Billion contract vs $1.6 Billion contract of JF-17.After upgrade, a Mirage 2000 costs more than a Rafael.

At the time when JF-17 deal was undercut, even primary evaluation process for MMCRA was not over and France did not knew whether Rafael would be selected as Eurofighter and F-18 were equal contenders for that tender.

 

[SQ8]

Actually he did mention that in a manner of speaking. He made the comment that Chinese Su27 which is only half as good as the Indian one was still, in his opinion, better than the Rafale.


"We (Russia) are still very surprised that Rafale is being bought, because if the Rafale is intended to oppose Pakistani or Chinese planes, then the Sukhoi which the Chinese produce, or mobilizes, but which is only 50 percent of the Sukhoi which you (India) produce, then even for the Chinese Sukhoi, these Rafales will be like mosquitoes on an August night. They will be shot down like mosquitoes. That's why I don't understand why...."

I'd disagree on the current Chinese Sukhoi clone production. specifically the J-11B and further types. The Su-27Sk and Su-30 are outmatched by the MKI pretty easy. The J-11B and further on, the Chinese have added a lot more than what meets the eye. The aircraft for e.g. have a much reduced RCS as compared to the Vanilla Su-27SK and lesser than the MKI. The radar too on them is different and very potent in A2A.

However , the Gentleman is shooting from the hip in this matter and is essentially doing what all Russians businessmen do.. .exaggerate.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Russia friend? are you serious.
you do know Siberia is rightfully Chinese land.
Chinese national interests come before Russian interests.
have you gone soft or is this sun tsu tactics.

Nice try..buddy with new Chinese civil engineering technology, we can expand our space vertically as territory and build mega cities before we colonize the moon and other planets . Our territory is twice the size of India with roughtly the same population and still the north western and south western China lands are not fully exploited, there is still plenty room for improvement on our land, we're not obsessed with the historical lost territory.

 

[TheMatador]

Now Russia will give China kill codes for all Indian hardware to disable them during a conflict.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I'd disagree on the current Chinese Sukhoi clone production. specifically the J-11B and further types. The Su-27Sk and Su-30 are outmatched by the MKI pretty easy. The J-11B and further on, the Chinese have added a lot more than what meets the eye. The aircraft for e.g. have a much reduced RCS as compared to the Vanilla Su-27SK and lesser than the MKI. The radar too on them is different and very potent in A2A.

However , the Gentleman is shooting from the hip in this matter and is essentially doing what all Russians businessmen do.. .exaggerate.

Well; @Oscar, the guy is trying "to peddle something", like trying to sell 'snake oil'......only if some body buys it.

Hi,

The purchase of Rafale was not on merit but a strategic decision----it was the only way india could cut off the sale of French electronic package and french weapons for the JF 17 aircraft---.

Pakistan and france were in an advanced stage of development of the electronics package for the JF 17----.

If it was not for that----india would have either picked the Mig35 or the Eurofighter.

Bottomline---india had no other choice if it needed to stop the sale of goods from france---its hands were and are tied---. They have to buy French---otherwise pak gets its package.

@MastanKhan; that there was imaginative but tooooo imaginative!
India took care of the French much earlier and elsewhere, the M2K upgrades or the Scorpenes; but the Rafale made it on its own merit. There was pretty much a stand-off between the Rafale and the Eurofighter.
THAT is where the real strategic decision kicked in....... since the Eurofighter deal meant handling like 4 entities with 4 times the attendant risks. The US options also "did not make the cut" for the same reasons apart from losing out on tech parameters.
That is how it is.........

 

[Kolaps]

Indian officials are stupid!

They definitely will not buy jet fighter that is not the best for them!


Their own pocket to be precisely.

 

[The Headache]

Chinese Su 27's suck. 80's technology compared to Rafale.
As do their PAK-FA. India should buy F-35 while it still can.

Don't talk BS. Any of the flanker can shoot down F-35 due to it's faulty design.

 

[The Great One]

Don't talk BS. Any of the flanker can shoot down F-35 due to it's faulty design.

Sure, any Flanker will shoot down the most stealthy plane ever.

 

[Donatello]

His statement might not be perfect, but that doesn't make the logic behind it any less credible or any less worrisome. There is real apprehension about the Eurofighter setup here, from the junior officer level right up to the command levels.

Germany, for instance, has strict laws regarding military exports to conflict zones. I won't get into the legal details but in short this means that whatever the commitments of the Eurofighter consortium, military parts manufactured in Germany will not find their way into a war zone. In effect that means we will absolutely, unquestionably be starved of the parts when we need them the most.

So his statement isn't as ridiculous as you have pointed out.

With 20 billion USD at stake, and your European economy barely moving at snail's pace, this amount of cash will get you what you want. Germany may not be supplying weapons to 'hostile' nations, however, that is up to India to prove, that shall it be looked upon as a hostile nation? Or a nation that wants strength for peaceful purposes? You can force these things in contracts. Mind you, the legal documents concerning such deals are thousands of pages deep. The buyer and seller both sit down and agree to terms that benefit themselves, but with huge sums of money at stake, the buyer usually gets the slack. You can stipulate in the contract that any future after sales support rendered ineffective by one or all of the participating Eurofighter nations, will be cause for lawsuit. European Union has effective courts and justice system built in, and if India has valid points, rest assured, the courts will serve justice. Not the half baked justice system we have in South Asia. Euro controls are nothing like the US defense exports. Signing out American fighters out of the MMRCA was thus a good decision in hindsight, because regardless of the capability those American jets bring, you do not have 100% guarantee of hassle free support. It is not the case with EuroFighter.

Now, i know IAF chose Rafale on merit (and yes political reasons as well, but let's just consider merit for time being), but hey, PAF evaluated Rafale and Typhoon as well, and Typhoon scored foreign sales, while Rafale didn't. So of course IAF knows more than us. My original argument here was that India would benefit IN A WIDER WAY if going with Eurofighter rather than Rafale. Nothing wrong with choosing Rafale. It is an excellent platform for any modernizing airforce. IF Pakistan had not gone for F-16s bLK52, barring the earthquake, Rafale WOULD have ended up in PAF.

 

[SrNair]

J20 is designed to deal with F22, Rafale is not considered as it's rivalry. if you guys buy Rafale instead of pushing AMCA hard, you will achieve nothing in the end.IAF is the chief culprit of the failure, they don't get interested in anything indigenous.

Wrong.
We will pursue AMCA program and will raise squadrons of Rafale.
J 20 is stillnot operational.Dont know how you are going to counter F22?Operationalized and completely purchased.
We have FGFA to counter J 20

Would it be possible to tell this to lots of Indians here who think otherwise?

Only developing not developed.

Source of their tech is another matter.
I am just mentioned about J20.
Russia alone cant make their own that is why we have JV in here.