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Rafale Deal on Track, PM Modi to Take Final Call

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HAL has countered that Indian labour isn't as productive as in France and also, the level of automation here is less.



Well HAL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ALREADY
Indeed, but the high levels of automation in France are a necessity really because of the high costs of labour so it's kind of like a chicken and egg situation.

Anyway, Casual have been told to work with HAL to improve their productivity and cut down the timelines for delivery of the Rafales built in India.
 
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If possible, they must give brief detail of what actually is holding the deal. Too much speculation and negative publicity against Rafale is going on in media and such an information would clear the situation.


:o:
Thats interesting. I thought when a transfer of manufacturing technology takes place, exact replica of of an assembly line and training of labor and staff takes place to replicate the quality of original product, thats the common norm in any industry.
I'm not sure but is Dassault implying that HAL would be free to employ its own method for assembly of aircraft rather that going by established procedures of OEM?
& if not, than why are they worried about quality. An established assembly line with procedures and trained staff and original material would essentially give you same Rafale, be it in India or France or anywhere else.
@MilSpec ?

Hi,

there are different methodologies of Technology transfer that are used. With the complexity of assemblies, the phases and gate reviews for subsystems are chosen.

Phase I- Consists of around three Gate Reviews. This includes Material planning, Material flow, Workcell design, Technician training, Machine and process commissioning, Assembly technician training, Knocked down kit assembly, mock kit flow. evaluation of TRL- technology readiness levels.

Phase II - Usually consists of two gate reviews comprising of sub-system production design, Supplier quality Production part approval process, First article inspections, lead time establishment, Phase I CKD kits are partially replaced by around 40-80% in Phase II by local production kits. Test results are analysed by the parent company for G2 review. VAVE projects for standardization for manufactured projects start here.

Phase III - Usually consists of three gate reviews, transfer of complex technology, optimization of material flow, reduction of inventory stock for parts, supplier quality reviews, Value stream analysis and VSmaps are usually focused about noe. VAVE review and learnings are also shared between the new site and parent in G2R. This is probably one of the most critical stages as all the tech transfer projects.

Additional project management's tools are used as and when applicable depending of type of system, origin, resource availability. etc.

tech Transfer never means replicating assembly lines, most Tech Transfer's I have been part of , always looks different and uses better streamlining than their parent site's work cells.

HAL has countered that Indian labour isn't as productive as in France and also, the level of automation here is less.



Well HAL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ALREADY
I know for sure, HAL houses the largest CNC machining complex in ASIA, these are not just Gernman, american and japanese machining centers but also have extremely high degree of automation w.r.t to Lmm's/ Cmm's robotic welding, laser scanners, etc. Degree of automation can be debated depending on which line is in question here, but yes HAL's labor productivity absolutely is pathetic, due to government organisation nature...
 
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The main issue of assurance has been sorted.

Now there is 80% chance of Rafale flying in tri color.

Good development.
I would have preferred the SU-34/35 or the MiG-35 instead. You could get two for the price of one Rafale. And they're 4++ gen too.

I'm hitting the bar to drown my disappointment...:alcoholic:
 
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I would have preferred the SU-34/35 or the MiG-35 instead. You could get two for the price of one Rafale. And they're 4++ gen too.

I'm hitting the bar to drown my disappointment...:alcoholic:

But the 120 mil USD for the Rafale is its life cycle cost!!You have to take that into consideration.And why would IAF need Su 35BMs when the upgraded Super 30s will be a head and shoulder above their level??
 
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I would have preferred the SU-34/35 or the MiG-35 instead. You could get two for the price of one Rafale. And they're 4++ gen too.

I'm hitting the bar to drown my disappointment...:alcoholic:
Rafale is beast Fighter with State of Art Avionics with MultiRole Platform The Only Reason We Opposed it Due its Cost Article States its Price about 15 billion But we will be Lucky if Even we get it Around 17-18 billion $

But the 120 mil USD for the Rafale is its life cycle cost!!You have to take that into consideration.And why would IAF need Su 35BMs when the upgraded Super 30s will be a head and shoulder above their level??
Price is Pure Speculations in MMrca We will get Actual Prices when Deal will be Signed
 
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I would have preferred the SU-34/35 or the MiG-35 instead
More Russian junk? No thank you. Forget about the Su-35's (why even bring in the Su-34 which is not a multirole fighter at all?) absurdly high operational costs and low availability, but the MiG-35 had every opportunity to get into the IAF but failed to meet the IAF's technical criteria, so you want the IAF to induct a sub-par machine that doesn't meet their criteria?? o_Oo_O

The "cost" angle is so dubious, this is how the Russians get you- low unit costs, absurdly high life cycle costs.


If you pay peanuts you get monkeys as they say.....
 
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AS PER THIS ARTICLE
Senior Defence Ministry Officials told NDTV the first issue - that of guaranteeing the quality of aircraft produced in India - has been settled. India has given Dassault the option of physically inspecting the jets and guaranteeing the quality. Alternatively, Dassault is free to take a counter-guarantee from HAL on the process and quality of inputs.


Very nice . Finally french can stop blaming on India for not having control over the the product. NOW THEY CAN INSPECT THEM AND TAKE ACTIONS TO RECTIFY THEM .

2ndly HAL will have to give counter-guarantee on the their products . SO FRENCH HAD THEIR WAY !!! :D

Let's sign this deal during PM Modi gis visit to Paris and let's bring in all technology needed to develop our future Fighter Jet industry of India .

24 Billions are worth every penny . When we get these great technologies from France . :yahoo:

124 world class fighter jet . Best in the world and definitely better multi role fighter ever in Asia . With ToT of radar and engine technology too.


SO WILL WE HAVE UPGRADED FRENCH ENGINE FOR AMCA as well ?
 
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More Russian junk? No thank you. Forget about the Su-35's (why even bring in the Su-34 which is not a multirole fighter at all?) absurdly high operational costs and low availability, but the MiG-35 had every opportunity to get into the IAF but failed to meet the IAF's technical criteria, so you want the IAF to induct a sub-par machine that doesn't meet their criteria?? o_Oo_O

The "cost" angle is so dubious, this is how the Russians get you- low unit costs, absurdly high life cycle costs.


If you pay peanuts you get monkeys as they say.....
My friend Su34 is better than mig35 . Su 34 is completely in a different league . It's a fighter Bomber with 4000 km range and with mid air refuelling it can fill gap of strategic bombers for time being .

Rafael is a different fighter . And it's not a cheap fighter to operate too. The reason we are going for Rafael is its omni role capabilities , EW suits , importantly ToT of 4++ technology . With FGFA India will have top most technology of Russian aviation so it's too Lil too small for us to buy tot of Mig-35 . BUT WITH RAFAL WE CAN TAP INTO WESTERN TECHNOLOGY AS WELL .

I love if we get 2-3 squadrons of Up graded Su34 for bombing missions deep into eastern side

Were you take this Figure From o_Oo_Oo_O
Lol what to do Bro . MEDIA AS LOTS OF INFLUENCE ON TODAY'S WORLD :enjoy:
24 billion ... so be it

12 billion cool :rofl:
 
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My friend Su34 is better than mig35 . Su 34 is completely in a different league . It's a fighter Bomber with 4000 km range and with mid air refuelling it can fill gap of strategic bombers for time being .
The days of single-role a/c are over. The IAF is in little need of another ground pounder, they desperately need a multirole fighter and the Su-34 would add little to the IAF's capabilities really.

Rafael is a different fighter . And it's not a cheap fighter to operate too.
The Rafale is a hell of a lot cheaper to operate than the Su-34 or MiG-35 would be.
 
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