Rafale Deal:Dassault likely to enter into JV with Indian firm

[Matrixx]

Things are moving fast after Modi govt

 

[Ind4Ever]

I expect a manufacturing facility of GE414...by GE... That could share the engine of LCA-2 , gripen and maybe AMCA...

Hows that?




Gripen NG is ready and good to go any time soon.

NG will enter production only after 2016/17 ... That's why SAAB have came up with improved variant of C/D with powerful radar recently . Its an attempt use it to attract buyers till NG enters production stage .

I guess Tejas is at least 7 to 8 years away. Grippen has a chance, hence in his interview MoD didn't say specifically Tejas but only mentioned lighter fighters. I guess the best lighter fighter at present is Grippen

No point in going for gripin if its not NG and NG is not available right now . And Tejas already entered production stage. By end of this year we can expect 5 more tejas with all certifications fulfilled

 

[ito]

But his point is valid too. Mig21 replacement has nothing to do with MMRCA . We needed mmrca as it was in advanced stage of procurement and so might give us more time we needed to replace MIGs with Tejas. Gripin NG will be well over 70-80 where as Rafale packs more ouch with extra 20-30% cost . And 1 rafale can do the job of 2 gripin. So rafale is what we needed in numbers mainly due to operational front.when our forces battling out to keep sukois and mig29 flying ...

I would not compare Grippen with Rafale. Both are good in their own areas and not a replacement for the other. We need a replacement for MiG's so that our Squadron strength doesn't go down. At 200 million a piece Rafale is too costly whereas a Grippen would cost around 60 to 70 million

NG will enter production only after 2016/17 ... That's why SAAB have came up with improved variant of C/D with powerful radar recently . Its an attempt use it to attract buyers till NG enters production stage .



No point in going for gripin if its not NG and NG is not available right now . And Tejas already entered production stage. By end of this year we can expect 5 more tejas with all certifications fulfilled

To be honest...Tejas is a unknown fighter and that too unproven. I would not take the risk of filling the squadrons with large number of Tejas. At least in the initial stages.

 

[Matrixx]

why we keep talking Grippen or Typhoon when we have decided Rafale

 

[ito]

why we keep talking Grippen or Typhoon when we have decided Rafale

Because we have not brought 126 Rafale. There is a huge gap that is there to fill.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Not going to happen. At max India will get 60 to 70 rafale. MoD has made it clear that Rafale is not a replacement for MiG 21. Either LCA or Grippen will be made/brought in large numbers to replace MiG 21

The Gripen is NEVER going to enter Indian service that much is clear to anyone who wants to apply even a morsel of common sense. The DM's comments were (another) attempt to leverage another offer to extract more from the French.


The IAF is likely to get more than 70 Rafales purely because they a) need to counter growing threats to their East b) need to (quickly) address their depleting Sqn strength c) even 70 units is pretty small for an AF the size of the IAF and would not really address the issue of economies of scale and maintainability the same way a fleet of 100+ would do.

I guess Tejas is at least 7 to 8 years away. Grippen has a chance, hence in his interview MoD didn't say specifically Tejas but only mentioned lighter fighters. I guess the best lighter fighter at present is Grippen

The IAF is already inducting LCAs and from next year HAL will be pumping out 16/year, the MK.2 is some time away sure but that project is likely to get a kick in the backside now too.

Because we have not brought 126 Rafale. There is a huge gap that is there to fill.

The IAF is NEVER going to induct yet ANOTHER fighter type into its fleet to serve alongside the Rafale. As soon as the PM announced that order for 36 Rafales he has effectively signalled this will be the MMRCA fighter of choice for the IAF as long as the French side are able to work out the industrial/technical details with the Indian side.

 

[Matrixx]

Because we have not brought 126 Rafale. There is a huge gap that is there to fill.

this jv is for filling the gap....36 Rafale is separate order

 

[Ind4Ever]

I would not compare Grippen with Rafale. Both are good in their own areas and not a replacement for the other. We need a replacement for MiG's so that our Squadron strength doesn't go down. At 200 million a piece Rafale is too costly whereas a Grippen would cost around 60 to 70 million

FROM WHERE U CAME UP WITH 200 mil for Rafale and 60-70 mil for Gripin ? Both are wrong .

To be honest...Tejas is a unknown fighter and that too unproven. I would not take the risk of filling the squadrons with large number of Tejas. At least in the initial stages.

VERY FIGHTER JETS ARE UNKNOWN (not proven) when they enter air force. And how are you sure NG is and rafale are proven platform? Dropping bombs are far behind to be called as best fighter for which it is developed ! Air combat role. So on that basis I don't really like to encourage you on conclusion .

 

[ito]

The Gripen is NEVER going to enter Indian service that much is clear to anyone who wants to apply even a morsel of common sense. The DM's comments were (another) attempt to leverage another offer to extract more from the French.


The IAF is likely to get more than 70 Rafales purely because they a) need to counter growing threats to their East b) need to (quickly) address their depleting Sqn strength c) even 70 units is pretty small for an AF the size of the IAF and would not really address the issue of economies of scale and maintainability the same way a fleet of 100+ would do.



The IAF is already inducting LCAs and from next year HAL will be pumping out 16/year, the MK.2 is some time away sure but that project is likely to get a kick in the backside now too.

Everyone will be happy if we get 126 Rafale. But where is money? I will be surprised if the number go beyond 70. I am not specifically saying grippen would enter, but any lighter and cheaper fighter would be take the place of Migs. Tejas has a change, but it depends on how reliable Tejas are to be inducted in large numbers. There are even talks of SAAB improving Tejas to become a potent platform.

 

[Glorino]

Great going-act fast.India badly needs MRCAs- Rafale should tie up with a private sector company. HAL should be allowed with existing products and newer products FGFA.HAL is fully employed. Grippen too should be produced in India to complement Tejas LCA.Light fighters are cheaper and single engined Grippen should tie up private sector company and should be export oriented to keep in line of Modi vision to export defence equipments

 

[Abingdonboy]

Everyone will be happy if we get 126 Rafale. But where is money?

What do you mean? Beyond the $330 billion India is spending on capital acquisitions by 2022 (a large proportion of this going to the IAF as has been the trend of the past decade)? Beyond the fact that India is spending barely a pitiful 1.8% of its GDP that is now forecast to grow at 8.6% next year?

The money was NEVER the issue- this has been reiterated by every side. The issue existed between Dassualt and HAL on the industrial and legal side. This JV proposal would effectively address this and pave the way for the MMRCA (2.0) to take place....

 

[SpArK]

NG will enter production only after 2016/17 ... That's why SAAB have came up with improved variant of C/D with powerful radar recently . Its an attempt use it to attract buyers till NG enters production stage .

No point in going for gripin if its not NG and NG is not available right now . And Tejas already entered production stage. By end of this year we can expect 5 more tejas with all certifications fulfilled

No point in the Mark-1s either.

Comparing to Mk-2 the Gripen has gone a long way.. The NG mockup was in Brazil 2 weeks back.

And unlike Mk-2 LCA most of the systems are ready and is on process of integration that the final product will be renamed as NG , not a sperate fighter but same with different systems unlike the case of LCA.

 

[ito]

FROM WHERE U CAME UP WITH 200 mil for Rafale and 60-70 mil for Gripin ? Both are wrong .


VERY FIGHTER JETS ARE UNKNOWN (not proven) when they enter air force. And how are you sure NG is and rafale are proven platform? Dropping bombs are far behind to be called as best fighter for which it is developed ! Air combat role. So on that basis I don't really like to encourage you on conclusion .

They prices are correct.

Qatar has agreed to buy 24 Rafale fighter jets for $7 billion. That makes each Rafale almost 300 m. and Gripen would be half that price.

 

[Ind4Ever]

I expect a manufacturing facility of GE414...by GE... That could share the engine of LCA-2 , gripen and maybe AMCA...

Hows that?




Gripen NG is ready and good to go any time soon.

As far as GE F414 extended version for AMCA is concerned its a done deal . We will be manufacturing them in India for sure . This topic was discussed in details when Obama came to India . So no need to worry about it. It will be very disappointing on both sides if we don't go ahead with this deal.

 

[ito]

What do you mean? Beyond the $330 billion India is spending on capital acquisitions by 2022 (a large proportion of this going to the IAF as has been the trend of the past decade)? Beyond the fact that India is spending barely a pitiful 1.8% of its GDP that is now forecast to grow at 8.6% next year?

The money was NEVER the issue- this has been reiterated by every side. The issue existed between Dassualt and HAL on the industrial and legal side. This JV proposal would effectively address this and pave the way for the MMRCA (2.0) to take place....

Money is an issue. If not we would have brought 126 rafales. There would have been no need to announce just 36 planes